Want to talk to you now about R1-6.

Now, the next process I'm going to tell you about is a very, very interesting process, but it's very destructive of havingness, and it is one which is done with considerable caution on the part of the auditor — Route 1-7. Route 1-7: "Have preclear let go and find many places where he is not." Now, the auditing command associated with this is a very simple thing: "Find a place where you are not." And you repeat this command many times until any communication lag developed by the question has been rendered constant.

If we had no other process anywhere than "Have preclear hold two back anchor points of the room for at least two minutes by the clock," and we didn't have any other process but that, do you know we'd have more people well? That's one of these important processes; that's one of these interesting, important processes which has quite a lot of history back of it.

Now, you understand that we have the preclear let go because that's the last part of R2-6. You tell him to let go before you tell him to do anything else. Actually, this little point belongs with 6, doesn't it? After you've told him to hold the two back anchor points of the room .. .

This is making space. Here we're immediately and directly applying viewpoint of dimension.

In groups — tell groups that or anything else — for heaven sakes, always tell them to let go. Because there's some yap who will go on holding on till the end of time — and doing the other process while he's still holding on to the back anchor points of the room. So you tell him to let go and find some places where he's not. And that really is the auditing command which immediately ensues after R1-6, which is "Hold the two back anchor points of the room." So you say to him — the next time that you say anything to him, which is R1-7 — you say, "Let go, and find some places where you're not." Now, this is very destructive of havingness, this process is. And it really shouldn't be run lightly on somebody whose havingness is very badly in question. If this person's havingness is very badly in question, you ought to be right back there at R1-5! You shouldn't be doing this process at all.

One of the things which a thetan is very afraid of is that he is going to get up against this stuff or put a beam on it — this MEST, you know — and stick. He's afraid this will happen to him. Also, he's lost his ability, to some degree, to make space. And this is a very essential thing — that he make space — because he won't have any space to exteriorize into unless he himself makes space. A person has as much space as he makes, not as much as he sees.

Find some places where he's not. Well, this is a curious thing. It can be run on interiorized people. What you're asking for is certainty. You want people to get points where they're certain they are not. Now, here is the first time in Intensive Procedure that we enter into this thing called certainty, and boy, we enter into it with both feet!

You just assume you've got space and you've got space; if you assume you don't have space, you don't have space. It's as easy as that.

If you let somebody say to you, "Well, I'm not in the room. I'm not in the backyard. I'm not into this. I'm not into that. A lot of places around here where I'm not, you know? Well, I'm not anyplace in the room. What are you talking about? I'm not anyplace around here! That's a silly question," you've got your nerve putting them on Route 1! Because this person would have shown up as an obsessive communication lag, or something of the sort, early in processing with two-way communication. He shouldn't be on Route 1. But let's say by some slip of something or other, you've got him on to Route 1 and you ask him this question: "Now, let go and find some places where you're not." And he says, "I'm everywhere. I'm not everywhere. I'm uh . . ." and yap-yap. "I'm not over there. I'm not over there. I'm not over there. I'm not over there. I'm not over there. Not over there. Not over there. Not over there." You can just count on the fact that you're dealing with a lot of junk. Let's slow this guy down (the way to run this process) — let's slow this guy down to a point where there will be one place in this or some other universe where he's not. Just get one where he's absolutely certain he is not. You see that? We want a place where he's absolutely certain where he's not!

But "the two back anchor points of the room" is an old process. It has many, many variations, and amongst those variations would- be "Now, find one corner of the room — upper corner of the room. Now find another upper corner of the room. You got those two? All right. Hold on to them. Now find a third upper corner of the room. Now put your attention on all three. Now find a fourth corner of the room. Put your attention on all four. You got the idea? Find a fifth corner of the room. Put your attention on all five." Sneak up on it. There's a group process in the Auditor's Handbook, printed edition — one of the back group processes in the book — which is just that process. Only you do this for fifteen minutes at a time. You add a corner every fifteen minutes. This just makes the fellow make space and gets him over being afraid of the material universe.

So this fellow who's giving you yap-yap-yap-yap-yap-yap-yap-yapyap-yap! — he isn't certain he's in none of those places. Chances are, he's buttered all over the universe.

An important part of this is "don't think." The reason why "don't think" is an important part of it is the thetan keeps postulating himself, all the time you're processing him, into various conditions. He could postulate himself into anything or any frame of mind.

By the way, the last person who did this to me, on a little bit of a test on the thing, said they were exteriorized ... They were run, by the way, right down to R1-7, and it was at R1-7 the auditor caught him.

So, you've said to somebody, "Be three feet back of your head"; you've had him copy things; you've had him copy nothingness; you've remedied this havingness problem with him; you've got all that whipped. Now let's get him a little bit more stable in the immediate environment, and let's let him find out the environment is actually there. And we do this simply by having him locate a couple of the back corners of the room and hold on to them and not think.

And the auditor came around to me afterwards, and he says, "You know, I don't believe this person is really exteriorized."

While a person is exteriorized, he can make and break masses and do all sorts of things just by thinking, you see. So we just tell him not to think; we hold on to the two corners and not think.

"Why not?"

Quite important that he doesn't think — and that's all he does. And if you do that for less than two minutes, you're just wasting your time.

"Oh, I don't know. It's just queer, but I've run these processes and this person says he can do these processes — she can do these processes all right. But, you know, for some reason or other, I don't think this person is doing these processes."

Now, why do we say just two minutes? Well, two minutes is a long time to a thetan. The equivalent in the body would be two or three hours. See, it works faster while he's exteriorized than when he's inside.

"Well," I said, "Have you run any 8-C?"

So let's ask this boy to do this stunt. Let's ask him to hold on to the two back corners of the room and sit there and not think. And then let's take him two minutes by your clock, huh? Let's not take him two minutes out of his hat. Because two minutes to most auditors is usually twelve seconds. A minute is a long time when you're sitting in an auditing chair. So really, actually take it two minutes by the clock — long time to the thetan.

"Well, no. This person didn't have any appreciable communication lag." So I got ahold of this preclear that this auditor had run up to R1-7. And this person would tell you ... Great glibness. They were insulted at the idea of being told that they couldn't find some places. Why, they could do all this sort of thing; "Do all this sort of thing very easily. Kindergarten stuff There's nothing to this! There's nothing to this. There wasn't anything to do this at all!" So you know what I did? I said to the person, I said, "What's your name?" And you know what that person said? Said "Why do you want to know?" And I said, "Well, what's your name?"

You'll find out his visio will pick up and other things will occur, but most important, he can find out that he can look that far away from himself with-out everything falling in on him. His body is liable to get somatics, various things are liable to occur. And if things start to occur simply because he's doing this process, why, of course, you know, the natural thing to do would be to go on to the next process just because it's the next process. Is that right or wrong? Huh?

"Well, do you mean my maiden name, married name? What name do you mean?" I said, "Well, what's your name?" And the person said, "Well, you've got my name around here! You know who I am. I mean, we're not strangers or anything. In Certs, you've got my name!" And I said, "What is your name?" I was still asking this person's name one half an hour later, and I had yet to get this person to say, "My name is Smith." (The person's name was not Smith.) How do you like that? In other words, this auditor had made a blunder up there with two-way communication, in that he had never understood communication lag.

If anything starts to happen by reason of his holding on to the two back corners of the room — his comm lag goes down, he starts to get dopey, he gets groggy, he gets somatics, he gets some violent perception changes, he's having a hard time fishing for them — any one of these things occurs, that is a communication lag boosted up to the dignity of a process lag. In other words, the process isn't finished yet.

Now, I'll give you a comparable one. The boys in the HCA course recently made the same blunder. Somebody had been around up there for three, four weeks, and they didn't think he had any communication lag. And do you know that in three or four weeks this person had never answered one question directly that anybody had ever put to him? These HCAs were perfectly willing to let this guy's utterance of sound be an answer.

And so, although I say two minutes by the clock, I say that because it usually takes that long for the fellow to forget himself enough to let things start to happen.

And to most people the utterance of a sound is a sufficient answer. You know, "What is your name?"

Now, two minutes by the clock ... And now suppose something really is happening with this fellow — you know, he's er-wrr and he's getting perception changes and so forth. Well, you'd just better do that process until he ceases to get changes — until as long as he's getting a change, you do that process! It's a process all by itself. Savvy? So he gets perception changes. So you do this thing for five hours; this guy is exteriorized and he's still getting changes at the end of five hours. Fine, it obviously was the best process that you could have given him at the moment, because it's the one that's producing all the change.

"What do you want to know for?" Well, there was no lag there, was there — no silence.

Well, you know, you ought to be chasing this fellow around over the moon, and you ought to be doing all sorts of things. "And Ron said that he ought to be exercised and he ought to be able to patch up his body and he ought to be able to heal people, and so forth. Well, that's the thing we ought to be doing, then, isn't it?"o, No! It says right in the Auditor's Code: "Run processes flat." Run a process as long as it produces change. If a process is producing no change, why, go on to the next process. Give it a fair trial. Well, a fair trial for "Hold the two back anchor points of the room" — a fair trial for it is two minutes for a thetan exterior. A good trial for it for a person when he's in his body is fifteen or twenty minutes.

Well, that isn't what you're looking for. You want a direct answer. You want this person to say, "My name is Smith." And this person at no time anywhere along the line had done other than give a completely indirect dodge. And the Instructor finally got this fellow by the tie, and got the students around and said, "Now, I want you people to look and listen here for a moment: 'Now, how many legs are there on the chair you're sitting in?' " The fellow said, "I'm not really sitting in the chair." Yap-yap-yap-yapyap-yap-yap-yap-yap-yap-yap. See? And we were going on at a vast rate, and the auditor kept asking this question and asking this question, and about forty-five minutes later got a straight answer. And all of a sudden, every HCA knew what communication lag was, see. He actually answered the question put to him: "How many legs were there on that chair?" So this person who's saying where he's not — you know, "Well, I'm not there. I'm not there. I'm not there. Not heh-hu-huh da-da-da-da-ta-" — that's a form of lag. And a little bit of a test on this person will demonstrate this person usually will be buttered all over the universe. They'll tell you they're Tone 8s and everything else.

You know, you ask the fellow while he's sitting there in a chair, "Hold the two back anchor points of the room." He holds them. And he holds them for fifteen, twenty minutes and then things start to happen. All of a sudden then he's getting whoom! bing. It kind of takes a little while for it to wind up sometimes, so a fair trial exteriorized would be a couple of minutes — well, let's say fifteen minutes for somebody who was still interiorized. See, that would not be a Route 1 process then, would it — if he were still interiorized.

This person will also tell you they're exteriorized. They'll put a view-point out there someplace, an astral self or something, and tell it to walk someplace, and then they'll say they're exteriorized. A person who's exteriorized is looking from the place he is exteriorized into. See the difference?

The difference between Route 1 and Route 2, you know, of course is just the fact a Route 1 is run while a person is exteriorized. You'll notice some Route 1 processes are the same as Route 2. This one, by the way — "Hold the two back anchor points of the room" — also appears in Route 2, done in a different way. Done almost the same way, but it's done for a fellow interiorized.

Well, you'll catch that person simply on communication lag if you know communication lag. But it's the interval of time intervening between the placing of the question and the receiving of the answer to that question — the answer to that question, you understand, no matter what appeared between — the exact answer to that question.

So this is the way you'd do it, and you run that as long as he would get a change. If he got no perception change by reason of holding on to the two back anchor points of the room, then there are two possibilities — three possibilities: (1) he went back inside; (2) he wasn't doing the process (you know, he didn't hold on to the two; you told him to and he's sitting there, but he's not doing it — that possibility, you see, occurs); and the other one is that he's in such good shape that merely contacting some MEST doesn't disturb him any. See, so you just pays your money and you takes your chance.

So we only got to R1-7 with this preclear because the auditor had made a blunder. But he was at R1-7 and he'd started the process and there was no time to lock off this process. It left me with the necessity of discovering some-place in the universe where this preclear, who was obsessively communicating, was not. And we had a picnic. We had a picnic!

But listen, if he's still interiorized, if he went back in, he'll come back out again on this process. So you just go on doing the process. Two, if he isn't obeying your orders, then you didn't sound the case — you know, you didn't size this case up; you didn't do a good human evaluation on him before you started to process him. You know? He's not doing what you're telling him to do, what you should be doing with him is Standard Operating Procedure 8-C's Opening Procedure. Good old R2-16 — that's what that fellow needed.

And we found out that this person was not in Universe 81, because there was no such universe — little did that person know. But this person, who finally got a certainty, slowed down to a completely silent lag. She said, "I think. No. Say, you know ... You know, there's a universe out that way some ... I'm not in it!" Gee. Good news, see. Big news. Big stuff. Wonderful thing had happened here!

And, by the way, let me go into it right away (I may or may not have mentioned it elsewhere), but the place where you discover whether or not a person should be entered in Route 1 or Route 2 is not "Be three feet back of your head." It's whether or not he's got a comm lag while doing Steps 1, 2 or 3. You're doing Steps 1, 2 or 3, applying your knowledge of human evaluation, this fellow has lots of comm lags, and so forth — don't bother with Route 1, just go on over to Route 2. See, he won't be three feet back of his head. Long comm lags, and that sort of thing, and he's fouled up and he can't give you direct answers and so forth — go to Route 2. Run R2-16, Opening Procedure of 8-C. You see?

And then we found another place, finally, where the person was not. And I worked the person for a relatively short period of time. I actually worked the person less than an hour, and at the end of that hour this person was centralized and knew where he [she] was. And we had killed the communication lag.

I should have made that clearer there: you're only on Route 1 where the fellow had practically no comm lag. You were able to talk to him, get straight answers, and so forth. And you did this, and all of a sudden you said, "What do you know!" Route 1: "Be three feet back of your head." He probably is, you see.

Mind you, this person was invertedly exteriorized — that is to say, the person was in the body looking at a thetan out there someplace, saying, "I am over there." Nobody had caught this.

All right. So this "Hold the two back anchor points of the room" refers to somebody that's already entered and gone down Route 1, right? All right.

An awful lot of auditing had gone down the drain with this person. The primary error, of course, was flubbing a two-way communication. So, al-though we don't pay as much attention to it today as we used to, here in R1-7 we have certainty entering into the picture with exclamation points. Certainty. This person has got to be certain he is not in that place. And you can hound him and badger him (to the point where you don't break off two-way communication entirely), until you actually do find a place where he's absolutely sure he's not.

How long would you do it? Well, you could do it as long as it produced change. You give it two minutes to really make sure that it is.

And at that moment, an individual who is using remote viewpoints (a technical term, meaning a thetan who is afraid to look from where he is; he puts a viewpoint over there and looks from that) — a person who is using re-mote viewpoints of one kind or another is capable of seeing from where he is. And occlusion is simply using remote viewpoints and then having the remote viewpoints go blind. See, the fellow puts something over four yards from him and looks with that. He doesn't look from where he is. You see?

I'll go over that again with you. You have no business being on Route 1 with a person who would have snapped back in his head. If he has bad comm lags and things like that, if you did get him out, he'd just snap back in. Furthermore, he won't obey your auditing commands, he won't do what you're telling him to do anyway, so there wouldn't be any reason to be running him on Route 1.

By the way, you take a look: "How far is Los Angeles?" — you're spotting spots — and all of a sudden you'll get a picture of Los Angeles in front of his face. He's got a remote viewpoint parked over Los Angeles.

You understand that you can't walk around back of a thetan, making very sure that he is where he says he is. They're deceitful! And so the best thing for you to do is to size him up by comm lag and then choose your route.

The only reason he sees with his MEST eyes, by the way, is because he's got two little gold discs, one over each eye, and he's looking with those discs. It's very amusing. He's got it all figured out that when he shuts his eyes, you see, the gold discs won't see. But the gold discs happen to be in front of the eyelids in most cases. He would keep on seeing if he didn't say, "Now my eyes are shut." So he has to turn off his own visio, see, in order to shut his eyes.

You could, of course, choose your route by going into Route 1, say, "Be three feet back of your head," and then he couldn't be, so you go on to Route 2. But you've given him a failure, haven't you? And that will stand in the road of his later exteriorization. So don't give him a failure; exteriorize him when he's ready to exteriorize.

Well, these remote viewpoints are buttered all over the place and a per-son, then, when he's asked where he is not, will suddenly tap in onto old remote viewpoints. And these darned old remote viewpoints, they'll give him the idea that he's there.

Route 2, by the way, run all the way on down — somewhere along the line of Route 2, he's going to blow out of his head anyhow, whether you've told him to or not.

So you'll have the guy totally badgered. Everything and everybody — he's there. No matter what he looks at, he's there. See? No matter what he thinks of, he's there. This is obsession; and this gets a fellow twisting and shifting valences.

All right. So we got as far, then, as holding the two back anchor points of the room, and he just seemed to hit a big comm lag at this point, and he's snarled up, and so forth. Well, his behavior right up to this point has demonstrated that he's exteriorized — he didn't have much comm lag and so forth. Actually, the process is just working like mad. That's the only thing that's happening here. So you let it work as long as it works. This is the least "workful" process imaginable.

He walks up to somebody, and this fellow has got a cough, you know? The fellow is going "Cough-cough-cough-cough!" And this fellow with the re-mote viewpoints all over the place and so forth, he probably won't even notice it. But he'll walk away from there, at least for a little while, going, "Coughcough-cough-cough" — something wrong with his throat. See, he's buttered all over the universe; he's got remote viewpoints out there.

The only thing really wrong with this process is the auditor always feels that he ought to get in there and pitch, you know? — he ought to kick around things and run a show and keep things popping, one way or the other. And the preclear sitting in the chair — his chair — and the auditor is sitting in his chair, doesn't deliver to us the idea that a great many things are occurring. No lion acts or anything, you know? And the fellow simply sitting there, holding the two back anchor points of the room, minute after minute after minute after minute after minute after ... doesn't seem to be very therapeutic. Well, it's one of the more therapeutic things that you could do, if it is producing change.

Well, you're asking him to recognize his own actual location when you ask him places he's not. In view of the fact that the thetan really isn't any-where, he has to place himself by postulate. You see, "I am here, therefore I can see from here." See, he has to postulate that before he can do it. He has to be able to do that before he is stably exteriorized, and one of the ways of doing this is asking him places where he's not.

So we'd ask the preclear every once in a while, "Have you got them? How is it?" We ask him quietly because we don't want to jar him. This is one of those quiet processes. And we ask him to hold on to them, and ask him how it is and if he's having difficulty with it.

He'll look around, finding places where he thinks he is, and he will as-is out of existence lots of these old remote viewpoints.

And he'll tell you, "Yeah, I'm getting quite a perception change." "You know, there's a lot of locks flying off," he'll say. And you'll get various manifestations. "Yes, I'm remembering a lot of things that ..." You say, "Well, just sit there and don't think, huh?" Of course, this is a lead-pipe cinch — to give him a lot of locks flying off — because the main common denominator of things he's suppressing is that he mustn't think about them. You follow how that would be?

A curious process. We play it with absolute certainty. We work with the person no matter how long.

So, if you tell him not to think, all the things that are suppressed in his life will start to fly through the air, and they'll start to come right on up by him. That's a curious thing. You're just as-ising the blocks which keep him from remembering.

Other phenomena turn up with this, by the way. At first he finds spots way, way out, see? And then he finds spots right up close. And then he finds spots a little less further out. And then he finds spots closer. And then he finds spots a little less further out. And then he finds closer spots, and then he finds nearer spots.

Well now, you shouldn't advise him of that. He'll actually eventually get to a point where he actually can sit there and not think. And this will be the first time in his life he ever sat still and didn't think.

For instance, "Give me some places where you're not."

Freud and fiction writers and other people have long told us that there isn't a single moment of the day or night when associative reasoning isn't taking place. Well, this was the way Freud made his bread and butter. He said it wasn't possible for a person to be quiet and not think. This was beyond his capabilities.

"Well, I'm not in England. I'm not in South Africa. I'm not in China." He'll really be able to get these (not giving you these answers this fast). "I'm — I'm not in Siberia. Huh, I'm not in that chair right there in front of me, you see. I'm not in that other chair right in front of me. I'm not in Washington, DC. I'm not in Los Angeles. I'm not here in the rug. I'm not in New Mexico" — you know, all the time coming in closer and closer, and all of a sudden, why, bang, he's pinpointed. Here he is. And this time his visio will turn on if you'd kept up this process — marvelous process.

Actually, a stream of consciousness — which is followed by the very best fiction writers (Dash Hammet and the rest of the boys all do it; I used to be guilty of it, too) .. .

But remember, it's destructive of havingness. So remember, when you are running it. For heaven sakes, have him "Mock up some anchor points and pull them in. Mock up some anchor points and pull them in. Mock up some anchor..."

"One thought leads to another thought leads to another thought leads to another thought." The psychologist really turns a shotgun on your chest with that one. He says, "Well, really, all of your thoughts are being motivated and caused by the last thought you thought." Or, "What you saw in the environment, you see, that's what really started you thinking. And that starts this stream of consciousness, and it starts at the beginning of life and it ends at the end of life. And that's stream of consciousness, and that's the way people think." Well, that may be the way some nut that's teaching psychology thinks, but it's not the way people think.

"What do you mean by anchor points?" he'll say.

So you're telling somebody to sit still and not to think. This is a new, strange experience — if you just wanted to do that, you know — sit still and don't think! He's exteriorized: "Hold on to the two back corners of the room. Sit still and don't think." He would eventually get to a point where he'd as-ised out his main suppressed thoughts, and he would be able to sit there and not think. And it'd be the first time in his life he had ever experienced peace! Up to that time, it's all been the chatter-chatter-chatter, gob-gob, walla-walla of machines. You know? They have critical demons and, you know, all their demons going, and .. .

"Oh, gold balls, or something of the sort. Just some mass. And pull it in on yourself' — not on the body: on a thetan. 'All right. Let's find some more places where you're not. Some more places where you're not. Some more places where you're not. Some more places where you're not. Eight anchor points and pull them in. Eight anchor points and pull them in." You'll have to remedy havingness as you run the process. It isn't mentioned in the Auditor's Handbook. That's why you're being trained as auditors — things I forgot to put in the Handbook. If I'd put everything in the Handbook you wouldn't have to be trained as auditors.

That, by the way . . . the psychologist thinks this associative reasoning is reasoning. It's not. It's demon chatter. People really don't even act on this associative stream of yap-yap that goes through their heads. When you take a bite of food, you don't say to yourself, "Now I am going to bite my food," do you? Okay.

Okay. Actually, getting you to see the light — that there is no glaring light shining in your eyes, but that you are the glaring light of the world — is the real reason we're training you. Well, we'd never mention that to you.

Well, so you get him out of the habit of associative reasoning with this particular process.

Okay.

Okay.