Yes?

Male voice: On this subject of fields, could you very briefly go into the principal purpose of getting rid of the field and the end rule desired as far as we're concerned. In other words, an absolutely clear field, or just where the person can see his mock-ups and what have you?

It's just so the person can see his mock-ups. There is no other significance in getting rid of a field. The reason we get rid of a field is so somebody can see his mock-ups. That's all.

Male voice: What if he can see them already?

You mean against the field?

Male voice: Yeah.

Or on the other side of the field?

Male voice: Anywhere.

Skip the field. It'll blow up ...

Audience: (various responses)

... if he can really see them. But I don't see how you could call it, then, a field. I think you've avoided the definition.

Male voice: Well, suppose all he sees is — he closes his eyes and sees a room around him and present time environment. Or he gets away from it and finally all he sees is this field?

Well, that would not be a field, would it?

Audience: Mm-hm. It's been treated as such here.

Male voice: Yeah, it sure has.

Second male voice: Yeah. They — we're told that — to push them in.

Push what in?

Male voice: The present time environment. If we look at the room — close our eyes and see the room or this wall, we're supposed to push them in.

Well, that would be handling a mock-up. I'm sorry if I'm invalidating anybody. But a field is black, invisible, red, is usually an obscuring thing and is considered a field only if it obscures mock-ups: definition of field.

Yes?

Male voice: What about the case where the preclear . . .

You haven't hurt anybody. You can — you can mock up things and push them in till hell freezes over, and everybody's all the better for it.

Excuse me, what is the question?

Male voice: The preclear can move on it and make a perfectly nice mock-up; he moves into his body, he's affecting the field around the body. And would you then deal with the field or would you just have him move out and carry on with the next step?

No, I'd tell him to mock up something that didn't cause a reaction on the meter. I would not move him out, move him in or do anything with him at all. He'd have to figure out how he could mock up and see a mock-up. Do you understand that? And if he can't do it, he's got a field.

Male voice: I see, you're quite right, we can drop that. Thank you.

You betcha.

Male voice: It doesn't matter whether — what happens provided he can mock up a mock-up and look at it?

That's correct, if he can actually see the mock-up.

Male voice: What of the automaticity of mock-ups or, you know . . . ?

That has nothing to do with it.

Male voice: Okay.

Yes?

Male voice: Suppose you have a room slightly mixed up, that you have the room, say, and could unmock the walls, and extend the vision out for a long while, and you wouldn't have to bother with it, right?

Yeah, well, a field is not a facsimile in the sense that it has form. A field doesn't have very much form. The most form you will find under this term field is, maybe, rockets passing by or occasional asteroids going flip, or something of the sort. There's some motion in it of one kind or another; there's little dots, or something like this, that appear and disappear in it. You get the idea? Now, that is a field. It is not an articulated subject. You see?

Male voice: Okay.

It's not identifiable: it's a not-know.

Male voice: Yeah.

Your first reaction of a preclear when you ask him to look at a field is a very interesting one. It's always, "I don't know what I'm looking at," or, "I'm looking at nothing."

Male voice: Okay. Well, suppose the preclear has a facsimile approximating present time. Or . . .

You wouldn't handle it. You'd have nothing to do with it at all. It's a facsimile. Of course, a field is a facsimile.

Male voice: Yeah.

But the funny part of it is that it's a specialized kind of facsimile. And a facsimile that has form still does not prevent the person from doing this one test — this is the only test that is used: Can he mock up something and see it?

Now, you have to be a little careful at this point and beware of this one: The fellow says, "Yes, I can mock up something." If you say at this moment, "Well, all right, then, do this and that with it," beware. You haven't asked him this question: "Can you see it?"

The fellow says, "No. I get an idea that it's there. It's on the other side of this curtain," and so forth.

You say, "What curtain?"

And he says, "This big black curtain that is always hanging here."

Well, you ask him, "Is there any place you can put a facsimile so it isn't on the other side of this black curtain?"

And he'll digest that, maybe. And I've had this happen: He'll put it out to the side of this black curtain, you know? He'll say, "Yes, there is."

All right. Let's get this null mock-up and get the show on the road and keep it from going away. You got the idea? Otherwise you'll get the doggone case pretty involved. Got that? This is simpler than you think.

Male voice: In that case, do we have a change of command on that field step because . . .

There is no command on a field step.

Male voice: Well, the first thing you're asked is, "Close your eyes, what are you looking at?"

All right.

Male voice: Well, hell, unless I put something there to look at I'm not looking at anything.

Now, let's get this real clear. I knew I ought to take this up today. Not because I thought there was any involvement on it; because people always get involved with fields because they're a bunch of not-know. You get the idea?

Now, if a person can mock something up and see it, that is all we want him to do. And that is the only condition necessary to run Keep It from Going Away and Hold It Still and all the rest of it. Don't you see? So we're merely trying to establish that condition. We're not trying to do another blessed thing.

Male voice: Good!

That's all. Do you understand? Therefore, the questions which you ask — the questions which you ask shouldn't — should merely establish this thing.

This is very easy to misunderstand because fields are a not-know mechanism. And every time you try to explain them or grasp the thing, you're liable to run into a not-know. You get the idea?

Yes?

Male voice: This point on badgering comes up here, too. Most preclears, if you ask them to make a mock-up, "Can you see it?" very simply — well, let's say many of them will say, "Yeah, okay." Whereas if you said, "Do you really see it? How clearly do you see it?" and you go on down that line, pretty soon they'll wonder whether they do see it or not . . .

Well, this is covered by the Auditor's Code. Do not invalidate the preclear. It's covered by the Auditor's Code.

You can ask questions which are not invalidative, however: You say, "Where is it?"

Audience: Yeah. Yeah.

And, "You see it real plainly, don't you?" There's a positive side of it. And the fellow says, "No, I don't, as a matter of fact. As a matter of fact I just have an idea that it is there." And he'll give you the dope. You don't have to ask an invalidative type of question to establish this information.

This is the touchiest part of clearing that we're on, right this minute. And you'll be very, very happy to know that it is the one touchy part of clearing. There aren't eight more. The first touchy part of clearing is letting the process get the preclear under control. When you're no longer running the process, who the hell is controlling the preclear? Not you. So he's not under control, although he was apparently doing fine on SCS. He all of a sudden doesn't act when you tell him to act, when you start into mock-ups. Don't you see? So you have to make up your mind to control a preclear directly. See? All right, that's the first hump.

The second hump is when you get up to fields, do you get all involved with this, do you start going appetite over tin cup with this? It requires judgment. It's a nice piece of judgment, too. It's a step that has to be taken with considerable care. And your whole mission in undertaking the step is just to get it so that you can run: Mock up null object and keep it from going away. See? All right.

Okay. As far as in the body, out of the body, so what? Inside a body is usually black.

Yes?

Female voice: I thought that when the field is clear means that as soon as these — that are curtains, you might call them invisible or gray, or whatever . . .

Yeah.

Female voice:. . . they disappear and the preclear starts to see things, objects or scenes, then that means it's clear — that the field is clear then.

Mmm.

Female voice: But the preclear doesn't seem to be aware of what the clear field is. He doesn't know . . .

Well, you're not going to direct his attention to a field, under what I've just told you. You're going to direct his attention to this fact: Can he mock up something and see it?

You will find preclears quite startled — more than 50 percent of them, I'm sure, will be quite startled to find out that they can actually mock up something. This will be a new adventure to them. They possibly have never done this before, never heard of it. "Oh yeah, well, this is like a dream, isn't it?" You know? "Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Well, I do this every once in a while. Yeah, I do this once in a while, I just happened to think. But I certainly never did it before this way. Yeah, I can put something out there and look at it. That's quite interesting." You'll run into this curiosa every now and then. And it wasn't field.

Now, if you directed his attention to the field, you're liable to get into trouble. He's liable to go find a field and pull it in and . . .

Audience: Yeah. Right. That's what we've been doing.

All right. Yes?

Female voice: If he doesn't have his body there with his eyes shut, does that show that he's got a field?

No, no. No. Nothing to do with it. The body has nothing to do with this.

Female voice: Oh — nothing.

Yes?

Male voice: There's a possibility, isn't there, as I understand it, that when you get onto Step 6 — 5 or 6 — that for a while you could, for instance, start not getting your mock-ups again. That you could . . .

Oh, yeah.

Male voice: That doesn't mean to say you go back to fields, though, does it?

Hm-mm.

Male voice: Thank you.

You just have him plug away at it.

Male voice: Yeah.

They fade out. They go. They disappear. Very often a wide-open case will be able to mock up a — mock up a chair eight times, and that's the end of chairs. Very curious, you know, the ninth chair just. . . Where the hell did the chair go? What's happened to this supply of chairs? Don't you see?

Well, you just keep him going and all of a sudden you get some thin, creaky, spindly, knocked-apart sort of thing, and that's a chair. Well, that's actually the first chair he mocked up.

Male voice: Yeah.

Consciously.

Male voice: Yeah.

See? The rest of them, why, form was on automatic.

Actually he mocked up all the chairs. Don't get the idea anything else. But he didn't knowingly mock up all of the chairs.

I had a preclear, one time — I'll give you — let me give you this one, just on that one subject that you just asked. The preclear — I said rather adventurously a statement of this character: I said, "Now, did you mock that up?" Meaning, "Have you performed the command?"

And the preclear took it the other way — that I had asked her whether she mocked it up. And she said, "Well, I'm sure that I must have, because it's there!"

Oh! We were running a wide-open case. Got it? Total automatic.

And she says, "Well now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. That doesn't make sense. Just because it appeared, I — I have to assume that I mocked it up, but I don't know that I did. And what do you know, I don't know whether I'm mocking these things up or not." And this was just a cognition. You see that? I mean, it just fell into that category. See, I wasn't making an effort to establish this.

You know, there was another theoretical road to Clear. I've given you one other today: Waterloo Station, which is a theoretical road to Clear. A long freight, but it is a road. There are probably many roads, but that one is nearer than the first one there was.

You know what the first road to Clear was? Just get confidence in being able to erase an engram. You get the Frankenstein effect, how it... ? And just little by little have the guy take a lock just as he came — the picture of the scenery just as he came in the door — and get him to erase it. And get a sound that he heard that same day, and get him to erase that sound. This is the way I used to work with them. I was working with them on a reverse Frankenstein effect. And they would get better and better and better. This was 1947.

But look, we didn't know tremendous quantities of technology, don't you see? That was a vast panorama, believe me, the total unknowns. And so to know what you were doing right was almost impossible.

Here's an old gag about teaching in metaphysics. There was a professor; he was a very, very good professor and he knew his metaphysics cold. And he had a young student, and the young student would come in every morning to get his lessons in metaphysics. Well, the professor had a cat. And the first thing that the professor would do is — he walked in the room, the study, you see, to begin the lessons — is tie the cat to the bedpost. You see? So the cat wouldn't roam around and disturb people. And then he'd sit down and he'd give the lessons.

Well, the years went on, and the young neophyte was now the old doctor. You see, he had now graduated into that status. And he starts to teach a young neophyte on the subject of metaphysics. So he says, "Now," he says, "begins the first lesson. The first thing we do is tie a cat to the bedpost."

Male voice: Do you believe that if you ran a Step V of SOP 5 long enough, it would result in clearing?

Very probably. There are probably several routes of this character. We have this other route — is simply, copy, copy, copy, copy, copy. Remember the old Route 1 step? Well, copy, copy, copy, copy, copy would naturally eventually take over the automaticity of taking facsimiles. So it's a theoretical road to Clear. Copy, copy, copy, copy, copy. You get the idea?

Yes?

Male voice: How do you classify it with Frankenstein when the Frankenstein doesn't deify the maker but somebody else?

Oh yeah. That would be an interesting situation. It very often does. Very often does. I know — there's many a poet who has gotten very, very deep into the world of poetry, and gone almost mad on the subject. And all of his Frankensteins deified somebody else. Most of the love poems you've got, deified some dame — I mean some lady.

Female voice: Let's see, what happened with the first mest Clears, the Dianetic Clears?

What happened? What'd he do?

Female voice: What's happened to them now? I mean, are they still as they were, or are they . . .

My notebook on all this was stolen in the first Foundation. And all their names and addresses and all the pertinent data in there must have been very, very valuable to somebody else. Because they lifted it straight out of the files. And I don't have more than about a two-year record on these people. And the records stopped, actually, in about '50. And at that time these people were in action and still in motion, and still doing beautifully. But because they didn't have a total grip on everything there was to know . . .

Female voice: Mm-hm.

... I imagine some of them fell from grace, eventually, you see — they possibly went on making this. But as far as action was concerned, to give you an idea, one of them was a lieutenant — first lieutenant — a psychiatrist, of all things. And when heard of two-and-a-half years later, he was a lieutenant colonel at a base. Now, god knows what this fellow had done! I was utterly flabbergasted; I could not figure this out. They just don't jump people that fast in psychiatric promotions, and that sort of thing, unless they have done something fantastically brilliant, or have got something on the commanding general in charge of... (laughter) But this guy had gone up like a cockeyed rocket. And I only heard from him obliquely.

Some fellow wandered into the Foundation one day and said, "Well, I knew one of your former patients," he says. And he gave me the fellow's name and I recognized the fellow, and he says . . .

I said, "Well, where is he now?"

And he says, "Well, he's out at Kingman."

And I said, "Kingman? What's out at Kingman?"

"Oh," he said, "they got a hospital or something out there." And he said, "I was out at Kingman and the fellow said yes, he knew all about you, and told me that I ought to go find you. And here I am."

And I said, "Well, how is he doing?"

"Oh, he's doing fine now; he's in charge of the medical depot or something there."

And I said, "What?" and "What — it's a very small post?"

"No," he says, "no, no."

I said, "Well . . ."

He says, "He's a lieutenant colonel."

I don't know, maybe everybody had his wires crossed. I mean, maybe he was still a first lieutenant. But it is very unusual for something like this to happen. Unless he simply just mocked himself up a commission — I mean . . .

You see, it... Now, a lot of the material that came back about these people was just that random — was just that random.

But you must understand that all these people were a different breed of cat than we have now. They were simply people that were grabbed by the scrap of the neck, you know, and they were just sat down. And they didn't know anything about it. They thought I was a swami or something. They, by the way, did not know my name. I had an office there near La Brea and Sunset Boulevard and Hollywood Boulevard, there, in Hollywood. And I had a beautiful rose garden out in back of the thing and I had an inch-and-a-half-thick oriental rug on the floor and there were a couple of candles burning before the joss house. You know? That's a fact. It was a very, very lovely office. There was no turban, but that was about the only omission.

And these people would simply turn up: it was just word of mouth. That was all, there was no advertising or anything. And I was running it because I had gotten a hell of a slug of back pay which paid for this research, you see? I simply rented the place and unpacked my bags and dragged out all the stuff I'd had in the Orient, see? That's the only furnishings. And away we went. And, boy, I had anything from movie stars to winos, see? And a fantastic parade of people. And I just sat down with malice aforethought, on a whole bunch of these people, and just started clearing them up.

They were there because there was something dreadfully wrong in their lives, you see? They did not know the word Dianetics. They didn't know "Hubbard." They didn't know what I was doing. They had no clue. And they didn't know where they'd gotten to afterwards: There was no state called. You get the idea? There was nothing — nothing described what had happened for them. They couldn't have talked about it, for words.

When we were running the Los Angeles Foundation, a girl turned up down there, and she took a look, and she said, "So you're Hubbard! But you're you!" She had the staff down there on its ear for a little while. They couldn't cope with her. Here was everybody starving for Clears and, "Where are the Clears?" and, "Let's take a look at a Clear." And here one actually did walk in, talk to me, talk to them and so forth, never said a word about it, and walked out and disappeared.

We had several like this, that they'd suddenly walk in and say, "Well, I knew you were going someplace! I knew you were going someplace."

You'd say, "How are you getting along?"

"Well, that's all fine. I'm general manager now and everything's all right. But I knew you'd get someplace," and so forth. "But what's all this stuff in this book?"

They were quite mystified. They had no background education at all. My attitude toward it was so casual, you see, so terribly casual, that they didn't know they were doing anything unusual. Therefore it made a good stable test. You see, there was no propaganda. I'd purposely connected nothing with this at all.

Now, to accomplish the same feat, years and years later, is one of the more fantastic things. You see? I mean, this is actually — actually, the attainment of this state of Clear and the attainment of Scientology in its goals and technology, and all that sort of thing, and its organization, is probably one of the more fantastic stories that's happened around the last — I don't know how long. But it is pretty fantastic.

Practically all of the early tests, then, were made on people who remained in total ignorance of any unusualness concerning it, you see. It was a very carefully conducted test — series. They weren't ever told anything was going to happen.

I've had a — I've had a mystic suddenly sit up in the auditing chair and say, " I don't know what you're doing, but I have studied for many, many years in the hope of attaining the same state as I have achieved here in a few hours. What is this all about?" You see, big mystery.

I never told them a thing. I just dropped the curtain on the whole thing.

Well now, that — that whole — that whole series of people, and so forth, as I say, their names and addresses and everything else were looted in the first Foundation. Boy, don't think I didn't tear that place up and down! I remember a couple of the people on staff said, "I didn't know you could get mad!" You know? "I didn't know you could get mad!" You know? The whole idea of me was, I was supposed to be a swami anyhow, or something of the sort, and I was not supposed to have any emotions except serenity. Well, I'll clue you: you bait a redhead by taking his most vital records, and you're liable to lose your head.

Female voice: Was that in Wichita when this happened?

No. No. No. The first Foundation was at 42 Aberdeen Road, Elizabeth, New Jersey. Second Foundation was at 276 Morris Avenue — first Foundation, main headquarters, 276 Morris Avenue, Elizabeth, New Jersey. The additional work of that particular activity was at 211 West Douglas, Wichita, Kansas. And the first Scientology Organization was down on North Central — 1406 I think it was — North Central, Phoenix, Arizona. And that was 1405 and 6, we had at one time. And that was the first Scientology Organization. That was Scientology. We had moved out of the fixation of the mind.

It's very interesting, you know, that we moved out of the spirit, into the field of the mind and back into the field of the spirit. Do you realize that? There's been a completed circle, here.

Yes?

Second female voice: You said something around '53 that impressed me very much to the effect that it's perfectly all right to go around picking up engrams now, now that we know about them. It seems to me . . .

Oh yeah.

Second female voice:. . . you ought to tell people that or something. I mean, it seems to me that a lot of people, they know about engrams and they're real worried they're going to pick up another.

Well, that's because they're not familiar with what they got. You get somebody who's run a few engrams, he stops wincing.

Well, we've attacked this problem from so many different ways that it was an oddity to have on pure knowingness, unarticulated, a clearing process which then when it began to be articulated and questioned, its anatomy looked over, became totally articulate — but awfully articulate but not informative. And then move up into a field of articulation that was somewhat articulated. And then get up, finally, to a point where it's almost totally articulated and successful. You see? And to have a mechanical procedure which would free a thetan: Now, that's the oddity you ought to be looking at.

Male voice: Mm.

Well, I could probably turn around and invent a half a dozen other ways to make a Clear, but, believe me, this one has certainly been narrowed down. As a matter of fact, the staff has been subjected to several bulletins over the past many, many weeks on their staff auditing: various ways of clearing. And I was sorting them on down, and I was being fair with them and issuing them what I knew as I knew it, you see? Just, I was boiling down all information from all sources and research that had been done, you see, in the past many years. And it finally, just all of a sudden, narrowed down and just fixed on the exact processes you were doing.

For instance, CCH 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, so forth, it's the most wonderful series of processes ever invented. The only trouble is their operating climate goes up and down with the sadness and the happiness and so forth, of the auditor.

Male voice: Yeah.

So, therefore, it's not a stable series. We had to go clear back into '56 to get this SCS and Connectedness that you're now running. It was run for months in London and in the US here, and out in the field and so forth, with spectacular results everywhere. We never did any — get anything but gain with this process. We have to assume, then, that it's something an auditor can run. We also assume this: that it'll kill an auditor at first, running SCS, but that he will do it. See? It's something he will do.

Most horrible thing, to watch some of the people on staff. We grab somebody on staff that hasn't been up to this and we start putting him through his paces to make him fit to be a staff auditor, you know; and, my god, he almost kills himself running this SCS. He doesn't realize why he's getting sick and staggering and so forth. He's just running SCS. He's controlling a body other than his own. Total invasion of privacy.

And, all of a sudden, why, he gets in beautiful shape. You know, running SCS and Connectedness is probably better for the auditor than the preclear, therapeutically. Quite remarkable. But it's the best — they're the best control processes there are.

You know this Keep It from Going Away, Hold It Still, Make It More Solid? I got those factors isolated over in London a long time ago, but didn't have two or three other things. One was a definition. Where were we going? A definition of the goal. And the funny fact that you had to have a definition, an absolute definition, and approach it partway in order to achieve mest Clear. That's a principle all by itself that was established, you see?

And there are a number of these odds and ends which have been isolated and established here, which have made this a fact. And you possibly now are, maybe, getting some tiny, little dawning realization that you are actually into something that's beefy. You know, that there's beef behind what you're doing. But that's nothing compared to what it'll be.

I've snuck up here with an H-bomb, that's for sure, in Scientology. It's going forward very casually and I've suddenly started announcing clearing projects and "Come In and Get Cleared," and that sort of thing. And there hasn't been very much hoopla about it, but as a matter of fact if any part of this had arrived in 1952 it just would have been the damnedest thing that would ever happen then, see? We're doing something on a very businesslike basis now, which is about as spectacular as you can get. I don't think you could get much more spectacular than what we're doing right this minute.

I'm not even trying to oversell you. I'm not giving any big pitch to you about this. You'll find out. You'll find out here in the next three or four weeks.

Male voice: Do you have any worked up — suppose somebody should accidentally get Clear at the end of thirty hours. They've got a lot more auditing coming, then what happens?

Then we'll go for OT.

Female voice: Oh, swell.

Audience: Good. We will?

Mm-hm.

Male voice: Same way, huh?

Mm-hm.

Audience: Just keep on going.

Male voice: Same process, just keep going.

It's the same process, with this additional one: Now I think we'd better tackle a familiarity with the remaining three universes. I think when we finally get out there we'll find that we are doing that. See? If there's just no point anymore in running a subjective — your 5, 6, 7 processes — this would be no point at all, we have achieved an ultimate in those — why, then, we would go around and start running them on this universe, and run them on bodies out in the street.

But, we're into pure research when we go above that point. You know, we have not researched above that point, on purpose; I was perfectly happy to consolidate this gain before we went for broke.

Okay. I've held you overtime, now.

Thank you very much.