How are you today, huh?

How are you today, huh?

Audience: Fine.

Audience: Fine.

What's the score now of those that I interviewed yesterday? Your pcs moving along?

What's the score now of those that I interviewed yesterday? Your pcs moving along?

Audience: Yep. Yes.

Audience: Yep. Yes.

Or did it all go totally astray?

Or did it all go totally astray?

Female voice: Don't know anything about it.

Female voice: Don't know anything about it.

All right. This is the twelfth lecture of the 20th ACC, July 29, 1958 and I haven't anything to talk to you about today. You know all there is to know.

All right. This is the twelfth lecture of the 20th ACC, July 29, 1958 and I haven't anything to talk to you about today. You know all there is to know.

It's obvious, isn't it? Hm?

It's obvious, isn't it? Hm?

Give me the last Command Sheet. Got it.

Give me the last Command Sheet. Got it.

You all know all there is to know about everything that's connected with anything, right? Hm? Nobody got that pun.

You all know all there is to know about everything that's connected with anything, right? Hm? Nobody got that pun.

Well, there are some cases - there are some cases that are slightly more difficult than others, and that's most of the cases.

Well, there are some cases - there are some cases that are slightly more difficult than others, and that's most of the cases.

Well, when you've got somebody wheeling toward solution, their interest is adequate to carry through. And when their interest is right up to snuff, they're cooperating and contributing like mad and you don't have too much difficulty carrying a case through. But when their interest isn't there and when they're not up to snuff, I don't know how you could ever keep anybody in-session unless you kept them roped, tied to a chair or something like that. They try to blow at every provocation. They try to do this, try to do that. But actually, obsessive blowingness is more interest than just bored.

Well, when you've got somebody wheeling toward solution, their interest is adequate to carry through. And when their interest is right up to snuff, they're cooperating and contributing like mad and you don't have too much difficulty carrying a case through. But when their interest isn't there and when they're not up to snuff, I don't know how you could ever keep anybody in-session unless you kept them roped, tied to a chair or something like that. They try to blow at every provocation. They try to do this, try to do that. But actually, obsessive blowingness is more interest than just bored.

Now, you can see that looking for a Rock - doing an analysis on a case, finding out what is actually wrong with a case - you can see before your eyes the person's interest increase. You can see that interest pick right up. Naturally, he's interested because you're running out obsessive interest in just that and his interest in that is so great that he doesn't have any interest to spare. So that a person who has a very bad Rock, whose attention is being thrown in the wrong direction, becomes very disinterested. That's something for you to write down, it's right inside the skull right on that side where you can peek at it once in a while.

Now, you can see that looking for a Rock - doing an analysis on a case, finding out what is actually wrong with a case - you can see before your eyes the person's interest increase. You can see that interest pick right up. Naturally, he's interested because you're running out obsessive interest in just that and his interest in that is so great that he doesn't have any interest to spare. So that a person who has a very bad Rock, whose attention is being thrown in the wrong direction, becomes very disinterested. That's something for you to write down, it's right inside the skull right on that side where you can peek at it once in a while.

Mr. Pc is not being interested in your running the Rock. Oh, no. Oh, no. Never, never, never. These two things do not combine, disinterest and the Rock. You're sort of mixing up a chemical solution and the chemical solution of the Rock has, as a definite ingredient, interest.

Mr. Pc is not being interested in your running the Rock. Oh, no. Oh, no. Never, never, never. These two things do not combine, disinterest and the Rock. You're sort of mixing up a chemical solution and the chemical solution of the Rock has, as a definite ingredient, interest.

That which the pc is obsessively mocking up is the realest thing there is to the pc, MEST universe notwithstanding and his not-knowingness of it and his irresponsibility for it notwithstanding; the realest thing on his case is what he is obsessively creating. Therefore, reality is invited the moment that you start to audit it.

That which the pc is obsessively mocking up is the realest thing there is to the pc, MEST universe notwithstanding and his not-knowingness of it and his irresponsibility for it notwithstanding; the realest thing on his case is what he is obsessively creating. Therefore, reality is invited the moment that you start to audit it.

Do you realize the value of auditing is not measurable in dollars and cents to a person who is being audited properly? It is just not measurable. A hundred thousand dollars an hour would be something he would talk about. Got the idea? He would talk about. He might not be able to pay it but he could consider it. Now, that's quite interesting. He could consider it, without gaping and jumping out the window and so forth.

Do you realize the value of auditing is not measurable in dollars and cents to a person who is being audited properly? It is just not measurable. A hundred thousand dollars an hour would be something he would talk about. Got the idea? He would talk about. He might not be able to pay it but he could consider it. Now, that's quite interesting. He could consider it, without gaping and jumping out the window and so forth.

Therefore, if you have somebody come in and you're going to sell him some processing and you say, „Well, it's going to cost you some money,“ and he says, „Well, I don't know. I thought that if you gave me a demonstration and if you audited me for a while and if I got any results, why, I would be happy to pay you,“ you're at once looking at a tough Rock. That's a tough Rock. His attention is not on it. He's in a not-knowingness and the physical universe about him is in a state of total unreality.

Therefore, if you have somebody come in and you're going to sell him some processing and you say, „Well, it's going to cost you some money,“ and he says, „Well, I don't know. I thought that if you gave me a demonstration and if you audited me for a while and if I got any results, why, I would be happy to pay you,“ you're at once looking at a tough Rock. That's a tough Rock. His attention is not on it. He's in a not-knowingness and the physical universe about him is in a state of total unreality.

You see, now I'm just using price and value of auditing as a Rock indicator.

You see, now I'm just using price and value of auditing as a Rock indicator.

Some crazy man running down the street, screaming at everybody, „These Scientologists are no good. Some day they're liable to take over“ - you know, you'll see this someday in the future years - „They're no good. They're liable to take over. They have their fingers into everything. They're ruining everybody's lives. They hold private black masses in basements.“ You know? Standard Homo sap operating psychotic: This guy is running down the street, screaming in all directions. Boy, you're looking at a big Rock there; boy, that thing is big. It so devours his interest that he begins to put up the manifestation of, „If anybody helps anybody, they must at once be wiped out and destroyed utterly.“ That's that on which he operates. „If anybody ever helps anybody..“ Somebody comes along and he says, „Central Organization is no good and the better auditors in the business are no good and you in particular, where you are, are no good. And it's all no good, no good, no good. It's all a gyp and a fraud and so forth.“ Ha! You're just looking at the help-destroy mechanism.

Some crazy man running down the street, screaming at everybody, „These Scientologists are no good. Some day they're liable to take over“ - you know, you'll see this someday in the future years - „They're no good. They're liable to take over. They have their fingers into everything. They're ruining everybody's lives. They hold private black masses in basements.“ You know? Standard Homo sap operating psychotic: This guy is running down the street, screaming in all directions. Boy, you're looking at a big Rock there; boy, that thing is big. It so devours his interest that he begins to put up the manifestation of, „If anybody helps anybody, they must at once be wiped out and destroyed utterly.“ That's that on which he operates. „If anybody ever helps anybody..“ Somebody comes along and he says, „Central Organization is no good and the better auditors in the business are no good and you in particular, where you are, are no good. And it's all no good, no good, no good. It's all a gyp and a fraud and so forth.“ Ha! You're just looking at the help-destroy mechanism.

Now, look at this as a diagnostic - if you please, don't ever let the FDA hear any of these tapes; diagnostic is a word which to them means „obscenity.“ It's synonymous with „obscenity.“ I don't know what they think it is, but it's something pretty bad; it might help somebody. And I'm not saying anybody up at the FDA is in this kind of shape. All of them are.

Now, look at this as a diagnostic - if you please, don't ever let the FDA hear any of these tapes; diagnostic is a word which to them means „obscenity.“ It's synonymous with „obscenity.“ I don't know what they think it is, but it's something pretty bad; it might help somebody. And I'm not saying anybody up at the FDA is in this kind of shape. All of them are.

But a diagnostic look at this case is what you should take, not an emotional look of how do we fight this guy, how do we keep him from spreading communication, how do we chop him off and so on. The devil with that! These people don't get very far in the society and then they usually commit suicide.

But a diagnostic look at this case is what you should take, not an emotional look of how do we fight this guy, how do we keep him from spreading communication, how do we chop him off and so on. The devil with that! These people don't get very far in the society and then they usually commit suicide.

They're not very interesting from a standpoint of a social mechanism. There are many people like this. This fellow named Coates - writes in a paper a confidential file every Thursday night over a chain, so forth. This man is one of the dirtiest little men in America. All he talks about is dope addicts, perverts, so forth. This is his stock in trade. And anybody that helps anybody is a dog. He's a real dog. It has nothing to do with Scientology. You listen to his program just to get a slant on the boy and anything that sets out to help, really, well, that thing is destructive and should be destroyed. He casts a shadow on every standard agency unless that agency is, of course, beyond the pale itself. And it's as much as your life's worth to be recommended over such a program. If you were to be recommended over the program, you would just lose all the business you had.

They're not very interesting from a standpoint of a social mechanism. There are many people like this. This fellow named Coates - writes in a paper a confidential file every Thursday night over a chain, so forth. This man is one of the dirtiest little men in America. All he talks about is dope addicts, perverts, so forth. This is his stock in trade. And anybody that helps anybody is a dog. He's a real dog. It has nothing to do with Scientology. You listen to his program just to get a slant on the boy and anything that sets out to help, really, well, that thing is destructive and should be destroyed. He casts a shadow on every standard agency unless that agency is, of course, beyond the pale itself. And it's as much as your life's worth to be recommended over such a program. If you were to be recommended over the program, you would just lose all the business you had.

The public at large is very wise to this sort of thing. They sort of - they say, „That fellow has a pitch.“ One of the ways they describe it. They think he's being paid to do this, or something on that order. The truth of the matter is, the fellow is merely nuts.

The public at large is very wise to this sort of thing. They sort of - they say, „That fellow has a pitch.“ One of the ways they describe it. They think he's being paid to do this, or something on that order. The truth of the matter is, the fellow is merely nuts.

How do we diagnose a Rock on such a person? That person has a Rock too, but he's got a Rock so much bigger than most preclears - and certainly so much bigger than any of yours - that you would hardly be able to conceive the magnitude of the thing.

How do we diagnose a Rock on such a person? That person has a Rock too, but he's got a Rock so much bigger than most preclears - and certainly so much bigger than any of yours - that you would hardly be able to conceive the magnitude of the thing.

Now, this individual who is talking about „All things which would help me must be destroyed,“ is one of the easiest people to put in-session you ever ran into. You wouldn't bother with anything else but just diagnosing the Rock. And it would devour him at once. There would be a large audible gulp in the auditing room.

Now, this individual who is talking about „All things which would help me must be destroyed,“ is one of the easiest people to put in-session you ever ran into. You wouldn't bother with anything else but just diagnosing the Rock. And it would devour him at once. There would be a large audible gulp in the auditing room.

Now, don't for a moment believe that the more detached and offbeat and out-through-the-window and far-departed the case is from reality, the harder they are to audit. Now, I'm just punching a hole in that one; that is not true in Scientology today. The more unreal the physical universe appears, the more detached they seem to be, the more aloof, the more bored, the more this, the more that, and certainly the more destructive they feel toward that, the easier it is to throw them into their own Rock. Now, I wouldn't advise you using this as an operating principle out in the society at large, but it certainly works. The way it works best is in the auditing room.

Now, don't for a moment believe that the more detached and offbeat and out-through-the-window and far-departed the case is from reality, the harder they are to audit. Now, I'm just punching a hole in that one; that is not true in Scientology today. The more unreal the physical universe appears, the more detached they seem to be, the more aloof, the more bored, the more this, the more that, and certainly the more destructive they feel toward that, the easier it is to throw them into their own Rock. Now, I wouldn't advise you using this as an operating principle out in the society at large, but it certainly works. The way it works best is in the auditing room.

Somebody comes to you and asks you for a proof that Scientology works. They've heard something vague about it and they tell you there are so many fake things around, and they just - but they did think they would come over and ask you about it.

Somebody comes to you and asks you for a proof that Scientology works. They've heard something vague about it and they tell you there are so many fake things around, and they just - but they did think they would come over and ask you about it.

One of the swindles they pull is, if you cured their case or did something for them, it would mean so much as an example to so many people. Well, that's an old cracked-case violin. No, we hear that all the time. That's very standard. That's a standard type of person and case; they want something for nothing. There are people that if you did help them, they would help Scientology. That's true, but you don't get this as the sole reason you should help them.

One of the swindles they pull is, if you cured their case or did something for them, it would mean so much as an example to so many people. Well, that's an old cracked-case violin. No, we hear that all the time. That's very standard. That's a standard type of person and case; they want something for nothing. There are people that if you did help them, they would help Scientology. That's true, but you don't get this as the sole reason you should help them.

All right. Now, this person shouldn't be talked to, and actually can't be talked to. The Paul Coateses, the destructive type person, alike with the person in the society who is simply being doubtful and he thinks you should contribute to him in order to prove that you're right - these are just a gradient scale of difficulty an auditor runs into.

All right. Now, this person shouldn't be talked to, and actually can't be talked to. The Paul Coateses, the destructive type person, alike with the person in the society who is simply being doubtful and he thinks you should contribute to him in order to prove that you're right - these are just a gradient scale of difficulty an auditor runs into.

Let's see how the Rock fits there. The worse off they are, the less real the physical universe around them is. Only those things are real to them which they are obsessively mocking up. There may be some things in the physical universe around them - there may be some things - which are very real.

Let's see how the Rock fits there. The worse off they are, the less real the physical universe around them is. Only those things are real to them which they are obsessively mocking up. There may be some things in the physical universe around them - there may be some things - which are very real.

Now, Coates is an example. The only things real to this man are doped addicts, perverts, sex criminals, anything and everything that is ugly, mean and nasty. This man could go to a Sunday school picnic and find nothing there but sex criminals, dope fiends and so on. He could! Now, he actually converts existing objects into his own reality so obsessively that you're sometimes fooled a little bit. Now, the point is, however, is the physical universe is not real.

Now, Coates is an example. The only things real to this man are doped addicts, perverts, sex criminals, anything and everything that is ugly, mean and nasty. This man could go to a Sunday school picnic and find nothing there but sex criminals, dope fiends and so on. He could! Now, he actually converts existing objects into his own reality so obsessively that you're sometimes fooled a little bit. Now, the point is, however, is the physical universe is not real.

And now every one of you, I'm sure, knows this case. You run him on 8-C, nothing happens. You run him up and down the track, nothing happens, and so forth. He-apparently all right. He sits there disinterestedly. He goes through a seventy-five-hour intensive and at the end of the time he has very little change of profile, you know, and „Nothing's happened.“ You finally get so you could brain him. Well, you want to be careful with such a case before you brain him just to make sure that he does have a head sitting there; it might be just an illusion.

And now every one of you, I'm sure, knows this case. You run him on 8-C, nothing happens. You run him up and down the track, nothing happens, and so forth. He-apparently all right. He sits there disinterestedly. He goes through a seventy-five-hour intensive and at the end of the time he has very little change of profile, you know, and „Nothing's happened.“ You finally get so you could brain him. Well, you want to be careful with such a case before you brain him just to make sure that he does have a head sitting there; it might be just an illusion.

The truth of the matter is, this person's interest can only be captured by directing it toward that in which it is interested. Now, as bad as they act, as much like spoiled brats as they conduct themselves, people like Coates, nevertheless run on the same mechanisms as everybody else.

The truth of the matter is, this person's interest can only be captured by directing it toward that in which it is interested. Now, as bad as they act, as much like spoiled brats as they conduct themselves, people like Coates, nevertheless run on the same mechanisms as everybody else.

By the way, some day you're going to feel a little funny. You're going to run into some raving psycho and he's going to be saying, „Well, I want to be - I want to be an auditor and help people and I could do so much good,“ and so forth. And this is all he says and goes over and he goes around and he bashes things in and tears things down but he wants to be an auditor and help people, see? He's a raving psycho. He can handle nothing in the society; he can handle nothing at all.

By the way, some day you're going to feel a little funny. You're going to run into some raving psycho and he's going to be saying, „Well, I want to be - I want to be an auditor and help people and I could do so much good,“ and so forth. And this is all he says and goes over and he goes around and he bashes things in and tears things down but he wants to be an auditor and help people, see? He's a raving psycho. He can handle nothing in the society; he can handle nothing at all.

And you'll feel awful funny. That happens to me every once in a while. You'll feel very weird. And you say, „Well, look, am I this nuts just because I want to be an auditor and help people, see?“ That's your feeling and your reaction, you know? „Am I this nuts? Is this so crazy an ambition?“ Now, listen - listen, there are crazy people around who drink water, and that's all they do - drink water. You understand that? And there are crazy people around who drive automobiles and that's all they'll do is drive automobiles. And they tell you about being a good driver and yak, yak, yak about driving, driving, driving. And all they will do is drive an automobile. There is nothing else real to them at all anywhere in the universe except driving an automobile.

And you'll feel awful funny. That happens to me every once in a while. You'll feel very weird. And you say, „Well, look, am I this nuts just because I want to be an auditor and help people, see?“ That's your feeling and your reaction, you know? „Am I this nuts? Is this so crazy an ambition?“ Now, listen - listen, there are crazy people around who drink water, and that's all they do - drink water. You understand that? And there are crazy people around who drive automobiles and that's all they'll do is drive automobiles. And they tell you about being a good driver and yak, yak, yak about driving, driving, driving. And all they will do is drive an automobile. There is nothing else real to them at all anywhere in the universe except driving an automobile.

Now, this guy's crazy, so you say to yourself, „Am I an automobile driver and does this immediately classify me with this character?“ We get the actual use of psychosis, which is ridicule. It's a kind of a ridicule. It's a kind of a horrible criticism. It's a sort of a base travesty on anything decent.

Now, this guy's crazy, so you say to yourself, „Am I an automobile driver and does this immediately classify me with this character?“ We get the actual use of psychosis, which is ridicule. It's a kind of a ridicule. It's a kind of a horrible criticism. It's a sort of a base travesty on anything decent.

The reason a psychiatrist winds up believing there's nothing decent anyplace is because he has seen every decent mechanism in the whole universe mimicked, derided, ridiculed by a psycho. And you can feel mighty funny sometimes.

The reason a psychiatrist winds up believing there's nothing decent anyplace is because he has seen every decent mechanism in the whole universe mimicked, derided, ridiculed by a psycho. And you can feel mighty funny sometimes.

I've had this experience several times. Never more so than when a raving psycho, one time, was telling me how I had to audit him so that he could help people because he was going to do so much for humanity, and so forth. Utterly raving. And then he'd go off into a whole line of gibberish, you know? And then he'd jump around and become very, very jerky and then he'd say, „And you've got to audit me and help me out because I'd be such a good auditor and I would help people so much. And look how bad the situation is in the Middle East and I would really like to help.“ And then he would rave, you know, and he'd jump around. And I would say, „Am I nuts to want to help people?“ See? Do you get the idea? He reached me.

I've had this experience several times. Never more so than when a raving psycho, one time, was telling me how I had to audit him so that he could help people because he was going to do so much for humanity, and so forth. Utterly raving. And then he'd go off into a whole line of gibberish, you know? And then he'd jump around and become very, very jerky and then he'd say, „And you've got to audit me and help me out because I'd be such a good auditor and I would help people so much. And look how bad the situation is in the Middle East and I would really like to help.“ And then he would rave, you know, and he'd jump around. And I would say, „Am I nuts to want to help people?“ See? Do you get the idea? He reached me.

Now, a psychotic is psychotic by an exaggeration of one, two or three points in the countless points and virtues of which a human being is capable. He just takes one, usually, or two or three or some, and exaggerates these things tremendously up to a point where they're totally critical. And he actually is no longer writing in a Los Angeles newspaper; he's no longer going on TV and criticizing everything. He is living the criticism, don't you see? And very often reaches people. They say, „I - I shouldn't be helping people, because look at - look at the nuts, you know. Look at the way people rave in an insane asylum.“ Now, the funny part of it is, Help is one of the most severely used buttons by psychos. It isn't any accident that every now and then, every decade, a psychiatrist discovers help, you know, and he lets the psychos in the institution help the other psychos in the institution. He gets a few cures and then they find out this isn't working uniformly. They forget about it. In about ten years they rediscover it. There's about a thousand other things they discover and forget too. But this one is right there; it's right there on the center of the button.

Now, a psychotic is psychotic by an exaggeration of one, two or three points in the countless points and virtues of which a human being is capable. He just takes one, usually, or two or three or some, and exaggerates these things tremendously up to a point where they're totally critical. And he actually is no longer writing in a Los Angeles newspaper; he's no longer going on TV and criticizing everything. He is living the criticism, don't you see? And very often reaches people. They say, „I - I shouldn't be helping people, because look at - look at the nuts, you know. Look at the way people rave in an insane asylum.“ Now, the funny part of it is, Help is one of the most severely used buttons by psychos. It isn't any accident that every now and then, every decade, a psychiatrist discovers help, you know, and he lets the psychos in the institution help the other psychos in the institution. He gets a few cures and then they find out this isn't working uniformly. They forget about it. In about ten years they rediscover it. There's about a thousand other things they discover and forget too. But this one is right there; it's right there on the center of the button.

They, therefore, have described an insane person as one who is desirous of helping others. And therefore they have wiped this out as a psychiatric goal. You see how this could be?

They, therefore, have described an insane person as one who is desirous of helping others. And therefore they have wiped this out as a psychiatric goal. You see how this could be?

Audience: Mm-hm.

Audience: Mm-hm.

In other words, the criticism reached them, didn't it? Hm? Actually, they were reached by this interesting criticism.

In other words, the criticism reached them, didn't it? Hm? Actually, they were reached by this interesting criticism.

Now, that's all a psychotic's psychosis is supposed to do: reach other people. Now, you remember that, huh? And it'll never disturb you to the end of your days, because that is the truth, the scalding truth of the matter. That's all it's for.

Now, that's all a psychotic's psychosis is supposed to do: reach other people. Now, you remember that, huh? And it'll never disturb you to the end of your days, because that is the truth, the scalding truth of the matter. That's all it's for.

And when he tells you he wants to be somebody in your profession and he wants to do like you're doing - ha-ha! - never so much as then, has he tried to criticize you. „Here I am crazy and degraded and no good and messing everything up, and I want to be just like you.“ I remember one time, I was down in Greenwich Village with a couple of marine officers and we were in a bar. Knowing lots of marine officers and lots of marines, it would be very, very hard to go to Greenwich Village and wind up in any other place than a bar with a couple of marine officers, particularly if they were going to have a good time in town, and so forth. These are hard-living people.

And when he tells you he wants to be somebody in your profession and he wants to do like you're doing - ha-ha! - never so much as then, has he tried to criticize you. „Here I am crazy and degraded and no good and messing everything up, and I want to be just like you.“ I remember one time, I was down in Greenwich Village with a couple of marine officers and we were in a bar. Knowing lots of marine officers and lots of marines, it would be very, very hard to go to Greenwich Village and wind up in any other place than a bar with a couple of marine officers, particularly if they were going to have a good time in town, and so forth. These are hard-living people.

And one of them was a great big guy and the other was a very little short guy. And this pair of them used to work in teams and a couple of drunks tried to challenge them and beat them up and that sort of thing. But they backed it all off until they ran into three drunks who were very pugnacious. I used a mechanism at that time which probably averted two or three deaths and the wreckage of a whole bar and probably the hanging of the barkeep. Nothing quite so tough and „Western“ as a New York bar, you know? Liable to have to walk down Fourteenth Street at dawn with your .45; very tough area. But even this reached a guy.

And one of them was a great big guy and the other was a very little short guy. And this pair of them used to work in teams and a couple of drunks tried to challenge them and beat them up and that sort of thing. But they backed it all off until they ran into three drunks who were very pugnacious. I used a mechanism at that time which probably averted two or three deaths and the wreckage of a whole bar and probably the hanging of the barkeep. Nothing quite so tough and „Western“ as a New York bar, you know? Liable to have to walk down Fourteenth Street at dawn with your .45; very tough area. But even this reached a guy.

These three guys were - the ringleader in particular - was going to beat up these two marine officers. I was something on the order of an innocent bystander.

These three guys were - the ringleader in particular - was going to beat up these two marine officers. I was something on the order of an innocent bystander.

Male voice: Yeah.

Male voice: Yeah.

And the ringleader of these three guys - was getting tougher and tougher, and I all of a sudden said, „Isn't your name Smith?“ And the fellow says, „Huh? Huh?“

And the ringleader of these three guys - was getting tougher and tougher, and I all of a sudden said, „Isn't your name Smith?“ And the fellow says, „Huh? Huh?“

„Isn't your name Smith?“

„Isn't your name Smith?“

„No.“

„No.“

„You sure? Don't you come from Poughkeepsie?“

„You sure? Don't you come from Poughkeepsie?“

„No.“

„No.“

„Well, that's funny. I knew a guy just like you, looks just like you, talked just like you. His name was Smith and he came from Poughkeepsie. The absolute dead ringer for you; looks just exactly like you! Same nose, same hair, same chin, same build, same face. A good-looking guy.“ All right, this guy to some degree is obsessively interested in his mockup, don't you see? So he instantly gets interested in what I'm saying, right in the middle of a fight, you know? I was doing this by accident and later on knew the mechanisms of what made it so startling.

„Well, that's funny. I knew a guy just like you, looks just like you, talked just like you. His name was Smith and he came from Poughkeepsie. The absolute dead ringer for you; looks just exactly like you! Same nose, same hair, same chin, same build, same face. A good-looking guy.“ All right, this guy to some degree is obsessively interested in his mockup, don't you see? So he instantly gets interested in what I'm saying, right in the middle of a fight, you know? I was doing this by accident and later on knew the mechanisms of what made it so startling.

And „Yeah,“ he says, „where is he now?“

And „Yeah,“ he says, „where is he now?“

And I said, „Oh, the poor fellow.“ I said, „In a bar just like this one night, he got into a fight, I think with a couple of soldiers. And one of them knocked the end off of a bottle and worked him over, scored all the flesh off his face, cut him to ribbons. And he lay there on the floor and he bled, and he bled, and he bled, and he bled, and he bled, and he bled, and he bled. And they finally took him away. It was a horrible-looking sight. And he died and they buried him.“ And this fellow's interest see, was - he says, „The poor son of a bitch.“

And I said, „Oh, the poor fellow.“ I said, „In a bar just like this one night, he got into a fight, I think with a couple of soldiers. And one of them knocked the end off of a bottle and worked him over, scored all the flesh off his face, cut him to ribbons. And he lay there on the floor and he bled, and he bled, and he bled, and he bled, and he bled, and he bled, and he bled. And they finally took him away. It was a horrible-looking sight. And he died and they buried him.“ And this fellow's interest see, was - he says, „The poor son of a bitch.“

That was the end of that fight. Only periodically for the remainder of the evening - because these three fellows then tagged along with the two marine officers - I had to tell them more about Smith.

That was the end of that fight. Only periodically for the remainder of the evening - because these three fellows then tagged along with the two marine officers - I had to tell them more about Smith.

Now, that's an example of reaching somebody with a similarity and a mockery, see? It's a goofy mechanism.

Now, that's an example of reaching somebody with a similarity and a mockery, see? It's a goofy mechanism.

But when an individual is very, very deeply absorbed in a type of mockup, a type of computation, and when he's used this to reach people, his interest can be reenlisted into it just bang, like that.

But when an individual is very, very deeply absorbed in a type of mockup, a type of computation, and when he's used this to reach people, his interest can be reenlisted into it just bang, like that.

So we get one of the characteristics of tests for the Rock. There are several such tests and one of those: is the person interested? That's one of your primary tests. And this has very little to - I'm not going to mention what you already know. It sticks a needle and anything else added to it, we'll take that up in a moment.

So we get one of the characteristics of tests for the Rock. There are several such tests and one of those: is the person interested? That's one of your primary tests. And this has very little to - I'm not going to mention what you already know. It sticks a needle and anything else added to it, we'll take that up in a moment.

But let's just look at these surface manifestations. It doesn't make you crazy to be interested in your Rock. You're way up the line in that you recognize you could have one. Most everybody else is one! Slight difference of distance.

But let's just look at these surface manifestations. It doesn't make you crazy to be interested in your Rock. You're way up the line in that you recognize you could have one. Most everybody else is one! Slight difference of distance.

Now, the next thing that tells you is he didn't know it, or doesn't know it - didn't or doesn't, you know? He can now know it kind of intellectually, but it appears mighty blank to him. But he didn't know it. Now, the „doesn't know it“ is quite interesting in that his not-knowingness has amounted to a total irresponsibility on the subject. Now, that's a characteristic of the Rock; in other words, the not-knowingness.

Now, the next thing that tells you is he didn't know it, or doesn't know it - didn't or doesn't, you know? He can now know it kind of intellectually, but it appears mighty blank to him. But he didn't know it. Now, the „doesn't know it“ is quite interesting in that his not-knowingness has amounted to a total irresponsibility on the subject. Now, that's a characteristic of the Rock; in other words, the not-knowingness.

Here's a weird thing: interest plus not-knowingness. Well, that certainly makes a unique picture. People are usually interested in things they know something about anyway, but here you've come up with something he knew nothing about. He was making it all the time and he's now not-knowing it and doesn't know much else about it. That characteristic is there.

Here's a weird thing: interest plus not-knowingness. Well, that certainly makes a unique picture. People are usually interested in things they know something about anyway, but here you've come up with something he knew nothing about. He was making it all the time and he's now not-knowing it and doesn't know much else about it. That characteristic is there.

Now, you can add as a subordinate characteristic to this, that he goes sort of blank when he starts thinking about it. The pc goes blank whenever he starts thinking about it. To self-audit this thing would be utterly impossible, because he always... I'll give you an example of self-auditing. He goes out of session. You are busy auditing a cookstove and having a time here and doing just fine auditing cookstoves and hearths and sacred fires, and doing fine. And he gets out of the session and he all of a sudden runs into this thing that he knows is more Rock than Rock. Get this now, because you're liable to get trapped by a preclear sometime, huh? And he knows something that is more Rock than the Rock you have found. He says, „Little electric heaters, that's the real Rock. I know.“ And you put him on the meter and cookstoves is just as solid as one of its lids. And electric heaters is nice and free, sticks for a moment maybe, but it is free. Well, boy, you look at this. You say, „How could this man be that convinced that it was electric heaters?“ Well, it's because he doesn't know, on cookstoves, and you're running through these pales and curtains of not-knowingness. And he'll do that out of session and in session and he can actually, after a while, accept the fact that cookstoves are the Rock, intellectually.

Now, you can add as a subordinate characteristic to this, that he goes sort of blank when he starts thinking about it. The pc goes blank whenever he starts thinking about it. To self-audit this thing would be utterly impossible, because he always... I'll give you an example of self-auditing. He goes out of session. You are busy auditing a cookstove and having a time here and doing just fine auditing cookstoves and hearths and sacred fires, and doing fine. And he gets out of the session and he all of a sudden runs into this thing that he knows is more Rock than Rock. Get this now, because you're liable to get trapped by a preclear sometime, huh? And he knows something that is more Rock than the Rock you have found. He says, „Little electric heaters, that's the real Rock. I know.“ And you put him on the meter and cookstoves is just as solid as one of its lids. And electric heaters is nice and free, sticks for a moment maybe, but it is free. Well, boy, you look at this. You say, „How could this man be that convinced that it was electric heaters?“ Well, it's because he doesn't know, on cookstoves, and you're running through these pales and curtains of not-knowingness. And he'll do that out of session and in session and he can actually, after a while, accept the fact that cookstoves are the Rock, intellectually.

He'll say, „I have something on cookstoves.“ When he's coming back to repetitive evening sessions or something like this and he's only spending an hour or two in an auditing session, you get a different problem than an intensive. An intensive has the advantage of not accumulating as many PT problems as partial auditing, and you get more auditing done, maybe as much as 50 percent more. So - for - per unit of time.

He'll say, „I have something on cookstoves.“ When he's coming back to repetitive evening sessions or something like this and he's only spending an hour or two in an auditing session, you get a different problem than an intensive. An intensive has the advantage of not accumulating as many PT problems as partial auditing, and you get more auditing done, maybe as much as 50 percent more. So - for - per unit of time.

So, you say, „How wonderful!“ This individual can go on evening after evening getting audited on cookstoves and he can accept it intellectually that cookstoves are his Rock, and that he has a blank on cookstoves. And he has explained several times that the reason he isn't going into the kitchen these days is there's a cookstove in there and he knows he has something on cookstoves. But he comes back into session and he's just as blank as could be.

So, you say, „How wonderful!“ This individual can go on evening after evening getting audited on cookstoves and he can accept it intellectually that cookstoves are his Rock, and that he has a blank on cookstoves. And he has explained several times that the reason he isn't going into the kitchen these days is there's a cookstove in there and he knows he has something on cookstoves. But he comes back into session and he's just as blank as could be.

Well, you are auditing cookstoves, which is the tip-off. And here's the weird one. He accepts this intellectually, then goes around on the other side of it and is fabulously interested. Now, how can he run a not-know total interest? Now, if that question can be asked, you're really on a Rock chain with authority. See, that's the real basic run-it-right-on-back chain.

Well, you are auditing cookstoves, which is the tip-off. And here's the weird one. He accepts this intellectually, then goes around on the other side of it and is fabulously interested. Now, how can he run a not-know total interest? Now, if that question can be asked, you're really on a Rock chain with authority. See, that's the real basic run-it-right-on-back chain.

See, he's interested in it and he keeps drawing a blank, and sometimes will sit in session for five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes and in a few isolated cases, a half an hour, with the auditor saying, „How could you help a cookstove?“ And the pc will sit there and say, „Cookstove, cookstove. What the hell is a cookstove? Cookstove? Cookstove? Cookstove, cookstove.“ And even one of them I've heard of, finally asked for a dictionary and said, „Could you please go get me a dictionary so - what I can find - what this word is?“ Her equivalent of cookstove - just a total blank - what is it? It just ain't, that's all.

See, he's interested in it and he keeps drawing a blank, and sometimes will sit in session for five minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes and in a few isolated cases, a half an hour, with the auditor saying, „How could you help a cookstove?“ And the pc will sit there and say, „Cookstove, cookstove. What the hell is a cookstove? Cookstove? Cookstove? Cookstove, cookstove.“ And even one of them I've heard of, finally asked for a dictionary and said, „Could you please go get me a dictionary so - what I can find - what this word is?“ Her equivalent of cookstove - just a total blank - what is it? It just ain't, that's all.

Now, if you're running something that's analogous to a body part... You wouldn't ever run a nose, but supposing you were running a nose - although some people use noses to reach people.

Now, if you're running something that's analogous to a body part... You wouldn't ever run a nose, but supposing you were running a nose - although some people use noses to reach people.

If you were running a nose, the individual wouldn't have any nose - longest time, you know? And finally get around to it in session, saying, „I got one. What do you know! I got a nose. And because I've looked at...“ They always have a logical explanation; leave it to a thetan to be reasonable. „When I look past it with both eyes, it seems to be totally thin and you can see through it, so therefore I have no idea of the solidity of my nose. And that is why, in this particular session while you've been running noses, that I've had no reality on the nose.“ No, that isn't true at all. The individual has total reality on something he has no reality on. In other words, the Rock is made out of these total contradictions and identifications. He has a total reality on it because he has no reality on it. He has total interest in it because he knows nothing about it. He doesn't even know enough about it to name it or describe it after you've been auditing it for a while.

If you were running a nose, the individual wouldn't have any nose - longest time, you know? And finally get around to it in session, saying, „I got one. What do you know! I got a nose. And because I've looked at...“ They always have a logical explanation; leave it to a thetan to be reasonable. „When I look past it with both eyes, it seems to be totally thin and you can see through it, so therefore I have no idea of the solidity of my nose. And that is why, in this particular session while you've been running noses, that I've had no reality on the nose.“ No, that isn't true at all. The individual has total reality on something he has no reality on. In other words, the Rock is made out of these total contradictions and identifications. He has a total reality on it because he has no reality on it. He has total interest in it because he knows nothing about it. He doesn't even know enough about it to name it or describe it after you've been auditing it for a while.

This is a characteristic, another characteristic in a test of whether or not you're running the Rock.

This is a characteristic, another characteristic in a test of whether or not you're running the Rock.

Now, an additional characteristic, as far as he's concerned is, does the Rock have anything whatsoever to do with creativeness in any way, shape or form? Now, if you're doing a diagnosis on the Rock and you have five choices that are more or less making the needle stick - let's say on the subject of religion you have five choices, and you just can't quite make up your mind which is which. They sometimes free and sometimes stick and we just are mixed up in it and we're not quite sure which is it and in desperation, we're going to dive, on this particular case. We would pick that one which was most closely associated with creativeness.

Now, an additional characteristic, as far as he's concerned is, does the Rock have anything whatsoever to do with creativeness in any way, shape or form? Now, if you're doing a diagnosis on the Rock and you have five choices that are more or less making the needle stick - let's say on the subject of religion you have five choices, and you just can't quite make up your mind which is which. They sometimes free and sometimes stick and we just are mixed up in it and we're not quite sure which is it and in desperation, we're going to dive, on this particular case. We would pick that one which was most closely associated with creativeness.

Now, the Rock always has something to do with creativeness, just as a cookstove has something to do with making good dinners. And this is another criteria: that it's - has a creativeness.

Now, the Rock always has something to do with creativeness, just as a cookstove has something to do with making good dinners. And this is another criteria: that it's - has a creativeness.

For instance, if you had, let's say in religion, your choice amongst an altar, sacred fire, a temple and a priestess and they were all sort of equally sticking, I can tell you the one that'll come off first and easiest, even though it isn't the Rock and though you'll have to go earlier on it: priestess. It's most obviously creative.

For instance, if you had, let's say in religion, your choice amongst an altar, sacred fire, a temple and a priestess and they were all sort of equally sticking, I can tell you the one that'll come off first and easiest, even though it isn't the Rock and though you'll have to go earlier on it: priestess. It's most obviously creative.

A priestess, after all, can think of ideas at least, you see, whereas a sacred fire isn't likely to think up any ideas. Now, this doesn't necessarily follow in the auditor's view. In some of these things, you can look in vain for something that is creative and yet it's running beautifully as a Rock. But eventually, you'll find out how creative the item was. But creativeness is simply a weighting factor. It weights the value of what you're running, just slightly.

A priestess, after all, can think of ideas at least, you see, whereas a sacred fire isn't likely to think up any ideas. Now, this doesn't necessarily follow in the auditor's view. In some of these things, you can look in vain for something that is creative and yet it's running beautifully as a Rock. But eventually, you'll find out how creative the item was. But creativeness is simply a weighting factor. It weights the value of what you're running, just slightly.

Now, wherever we look in scouting, we'll find certain rules being obeyed. And one of these rules is that the Rock is that chain of incidents or incident being obsessively created by the preclear with total unknowingness, in which his concepts of reality are completely wrapped up, totally involved, and which at no time will spring into anything like a reality in absence of auditing.

Now, wherever we look in scouting, we'll find certain rules being obeyed. And one of these rules is that the Rock is that chain of incidents or incident being obsessively created by the preclear with total unknowingness, in which his concepts of reality are completely wrapped up, totally involved, and which at no time will spring into anything like a reality in absence of auditing.

This is like a fellow being run by a total command station which doesn't have anything to do with him. He doesn't know about it; he's making it up all the time. It runs him, and so forth. Now, the Rock ordinarily, routinely contains physical pain and unconsciousness. It obeys all the rules and regulations concerning engrams, secondaries and locks. It is actually an engram chain and obeys everything in Book One. It has no vagaries or variations; it has no other special characteristics.

This is like a fellow being run by a total command station which doesn't have anything to do with him. He doesn't know about it; he's making it up all the time. It runs him, and so forth. Now, the Rock ordinarily, routinely contains physical pain and unconsciousness. It obeys all the rules and regulations concerning engrams, secondaries and locks. It is actually an engram chain and obeys everything in Book One. It has no vagaries or variations; it has no other special characteristics.

Its characteristics and conditions are those of a special engram or series of engrams. Therefore, we can unburden a Rock and if we don't get the right Rock the first time - the right part of the Rock the first time - it will run flat and run free.

Its characteristics and conditions are those of a special engram or series of engrams. Therefore, we can unburden a Rock and if we don't get the right Rock the first time - the right part of the Rock the first time - it will run flat and run free.

Now, let me give you an example of this. We have somebody on an E-Meter and we've got „temple,“ and boy, temple is just rigid there, see? So, we get Greek temple, and that goes off and frees up. Greek temple frees up. So we go back to temple and we get a stick, a fixity on the needle. And then we say, „Well, let's take parts of temple; let's take pillars.“ And it sticks. Again, pillars stick very easily. All right? Now, all of a sudden, pillars free up. And we say, „temple“ again and it sticks once more.

Now, let me give you an example of this. We have somebody on an E-Meter and we've got „temple,“ and boy, temple is just rigid there, see? So, we get Greek temple, and that goes off and frees up. Greek temple frees up. So we go back to temple and we get a stick, a fixity on the needle. And then we say, „Well, let's take parts of temple; let's take pillars.“ And it sticks. Again, pillars stick very easily. All right? Now, all of a sudden, pillars free up. And we say, „temple“ again and it sticks once more.

Get the idea? We're taking things off the top of the central stuck thing we ran into in the first place. Now, the opposite can happen. We can run into „pillar“ which would also stick the first time we found it, you see? And we'd run into „pillar.“ And then we would say, „temple.“ „Pillar“ would free up and „temple“ would stick. You get the idea. So, we've selected out now, between these two, we've selected out „temple“ and we're now on „temple.“ Therefore the rule is: Anything that frees up during a scout isn't it and anything that sticks is it until it frees up. And that which doesn't free up on two-way communication, will free up on auditing. This you mustn't overlook. This is one of those horrible little simple statements that everybody drives by and says, „I wonder where I got lost.“ And it was that little signpost way back there.

Get the idea? We're taking things off the top of the central stuck thing we ran into in the first place. Now, the opposite can happen. We can run into „pillar“ which would also stick the first time we found it, you see? And we'd run into „pillar.“ And then we would say, „temple.“ „Pillar“ would free up and „temple“ would stick. You get the idea. So, we've selected out now, between these two, we've selected out „temple“ and we're now on „temple.“ Therefore the rule is: Anything that frees up during a scout isn't it and anything that sticks is it until it frees up. And that which doesn't free up on two-way communication, will free up on auditing. This you mustn't overlook. This is one of those horrible little simple statements that everybody drives by and says, „I wonder where I got lost.“ And it was that little signpost way back there.

A scout, and the behavior of a needle in a scout, is similar to the behavior of a needle during actual auditing; and if, while you're scouting for the Rock with an E-Meter on a preclear, you're going along very nicely, you're freeing off locks - things that are associated. When you first hit them they're stuck. Then you talk about them for a moment and the needle goes free on them and you have to come back to what you're investigating, or choose something else you're investigating, you see? So, it goes free and then you've still got your basic „temple,“ you might say. And then „cornices“ goes free and you've still got a temple. And then „friezes“ go free and you've still got a temple. And you find „priestesses“ and they go free and you've still got a temple. You get the idea? And you just keep coming back to this thing.

A scout, and the behavior of a needle in a scout, is similar to the behavior of a needle during actual auditing; and if, while you're scouting for the Rock with an E-Meter on a preclear, you're going along very nicely, you're freeing off locks - things that are associated. When you first hit them they're stuck. Then you talk about them for a moment and the needle goes free on them and you have to come back to what you're investigating, or choose something else you're investigating, you see? So, it goes free and then you've still got your basic „temple,“ you might say. And then „cornices“ goes free and you've still got a temple. And then „friezes“ go free and you've still got a temple. And you find „priestesses“ and they go free and you've still got a temple. You get the idea? And you just keep coming back to this thing.

Temple, temple - you can free things off the top of it but it itself doesn't free. At long last, you decide that it is going to take something else than two-way comm to audit out a temple. And that is why you use a process on it.

Temple, temple - you can free things off the top of it but it itself doesn't free. At long last, you decide that it is going to take something else than two-way comm to audit out a temple. And that is why you use a process on it.

But if you do not find it sticking in the presence of two-way comm, you wouldn't use a process on it, would you? And if the whole Rock would free up just on two-way comm, which by some faint chance might some day happen to somebody, very unlikely, but if the whole Rock freed up on two-way comm, that's the way you'd free it up! You'd never get anything to stick consistently hard enough and long enough, persistently enough, for you to ever use a process on. The thing would just keep stripping down, stripping down until you just didn't have any stuck left of any kind whatsoever and you couldn't find any stuck of any kind on the whole remainder of the case. Then you would have taken the Rock off with two-way comm. You got the idea? Well, now, theoretically you can do this! Why? Because it's a lock chain that goes into some secondaries that goes into some engrams, and you could theoretically talk the fellow out of each one of these. Only one slight difficulty: you might key them out without knocking them out. You see, the Rock chain might just key out and then he's in fine shape for the next year or so and then all of a sudden he collapses. He wouldn't be in very fine shape; there'd still be a lot of bits and pieces and odds and ends around, you know, but he'd have keyed out so that his needle looked fairly free and so forth.

But if you do not find it sticking in the presence of two-way comm, you wouldn't use a process on it, would you? And if the whole Rock would free up just on two-way comm, which by some faint chance might some day happen to somebody, very unlikely, but if the whole Rock freed up on two-way comm, that's the way you'd free it up! You'd never get anything to stick consistently hard enough and long enough, persistently enough, for you to ever use a process on. The thing would just keep stripping down, stripping down until you just didn't have any stuck left of any kind whatsoever and you couldn't find any stuck of any kind on the whole remainder of the case. Then you would have taken the Rock off with two-way comm. You got the idea? Well, now, theoretically you can do this! Why? Because it's a lock chain that goes into some secondaries that goes into some engrams, and you could theoretically talk the fellow out of each one of these. Only one slight difficulty: you might key them out without knocking them out. You see, the Rock chain might just key out and then he's in fine shape for the next year or so and then all of a sudden he collapses. He wouldn't be in very fine shape; there'd still be a lot of bits and pieces and odds and ends around, you know, but he'd have keyed out so that his needle looked fairly free and so forth.

You could talk him out of being in the Rock! Now, the process Responsibility always does this. Responsibility, „What could you be responsible for?“ is a key-out process, not a good solid wipeout process. See? It's a little pat-on-the-head process and you just get him to shove that mass aside, step out of that point in time, exteriorize from that problem.

You could talk him out of being in the Rock! Now, the process Responsibility always does this. Responsibility, „What could you be responsible for?“ is a key-out process, not a good solid wipeout process. See? It's a little pat-on-the-head process and you just get him to shove that mass aside, step out of that point in time, exteriorize from that problem.

You don't do anything to the problem. The one that does something to the problem is „Invent a problem of comparable magnitude.“ Now, that is a process which actually smashes in the head the problem itself. It's a frontal attack; attacks directly and changes the actual situation, existence and pattern. Do you see that? So, don't be shocked some day if you run a lot of Responsibility on somebody and then find out it all keys back in tomorrow, because all the Responsibility did in the first place was to key it out. That's a key-out. It is not comparable to other processes - therapeutic, you see? It just gets something aside.

You don't do anything to the problem. The one that does something to the problem is „Invent a problem of comparable magnitude.“ Now, that is a process which actually smashes in the head the problem itself. It's a frontal attack; attacks directly and changes the actual situation, existence and pattern. Do you see that? So, don't be shocked some day if you run a lot of Responsibility on somebody and then find out it all keys back in tomorrow, because all the Responsibility did in the first place was to key it out. That's a key-out. It is not comparable to other processes - therapeutic, you see? It just gets something aside.

Now, if you wanted to get this problem went, gone and disappeared forever, you would say, „Invent a problem of comparable magnitude.“ Now, scouting with Responsibility - don't be surprised if the whole thing comes back in next Tuesday, that you so happily and safely got rid of and got out of the way. Don't you see? Don't be a bit surprised.

Now, if you wanted to get this problem went, gone and disappeared forever, you would say, „Invent a problem of comparable magnitude.“ Now, scouting with Responsibility - don't be surprised if the whole thing comes back in next Tuesday, that you so happily and safely got rid of and got out of the way. Don't you see? Don't be a bit surprised.

Similarly, two-way comm can either key out or knock out. Now, if a person finally, suddenly knows something by reason of running Responsibility or if he suddenly knows something (has a cognition, you know) with relationship to two-way comm, then we discover something brand-new. The knowingness was therapeutic, you see? And the fact that he found something out by running Responsibility or two-way comm made that piece of knowingness not only key out but handle some little bit of what you were trying to audit. You got that? So, there are ways of kicking the Rock out of the road without getting rid of the Rock. And Responsibility and two-way comm are the basic ways this is done. You key the Rock out; you don't erase it. Now, having located the thing, you run a process on it and a process is something that erases, eradicates, gets it gone, wipes it out, alters and changes the pattern of creativeness of the case. And Help is the one that does that one. Boom! You start running Help on something, don't ever try to stabilize it again, the way it was. With what finality does Help handle something? That makes it a pretty terrific process, because Help and creativeness are blood brothers. Help usually is that thing used to put persistence on creativeness and once you've spoiled somebody's persistence factor on that handy little gimmick, a death's head that he keeps mocking up all the time, once that persistence factor is knocked out on that particular item, to put it in exactly the same way again is completely beyond his ability.

Similarly, two-way comm can either key out or knock out. Now, if a person finally, suddenly knows something by reason of running Responsibility or if he suddenly knows something (has a cognition, you know) with relationship to two-way comm, then we discover something brand-new. The knowingness was therapeutic, you see? And the fact that he found something out by running Responsibility or two-way comm made that piece of knowingness not only key out but handle some little bit of what you were trying to audit. You got that? So, there are ways of kicking the Rock out of the road without getting rid of the Rock. And Responsibility and two-way comm are the basic ways this is done. You key the Rock out; you don't erase it. Now, having located the thing, you run a process on it and a process is something that erases, eradicates, gets it gone, wipes it out, alters and changes the pattern of creativeness of the case. And Help is the one that does that one. Boom! You start running Help on something, don't ever try to stabilize it again, the way it was. With what finality does Help handle something? That makes it a pretty terrific process, because Help and creativeness are blood brothers. Help usually is that thing used to put persistence on creativeness and once you've spoiled somebody's persistence factor on that handy little gimmick, a death's head that he keeps mocking up all the time, once that persistence factor is knocked out on that particular item, to put it in exactly the same way again is completely beyond his ability.

So now - now we're talking about key-out versus erasure. So once you've isolated and located something, you could say that you have knocked a lot of stuff off the top of it. Now, you would be incorrect, see? You keyed out a lot of stuff off the top of it; you keyed a lot of it out. And you can be so good at keying it out that having lost it all, you could say we've gotten the Rock. And it might stay keyed-out for a whole year. See, you never audited the Rock; you just simply talked it out of the road.

So now - now we're talking about key-out versus erasure. So once you've isolated and located something, you could say that you have knocked a lot of stuff off the top of it. Now, you would be incorrect, see? You keyed out a lot of stuff off the top of it; you keyed a lot of it out. And you can be so good at keying it out that having lost it all, you could say we've gotten the Rock. And it might stay keyed-out for a whole year. See, you never audited the Rock; you just simply talked it out of the road.

Now, those pieces would stay keyed-out that he found sudden knowingness on. Wherever he recovered a little piece of knowingness, you've got an erasure. So, those are quite accidental. The individual says, „Oh, I'd forgotten all about that particular church. I didn't remember that church. What do you know? It was right down there on the corner and there it was, ha!“ You're not going to get an aberration again on that church, see? But you say, „Sacred fire,“ and it keys out. He never says, „Hey, what do you know? Yeah, Greece, I remember,“ you know, or anything like this, or „Is that why I always jump when I see the torch of knowledge?“ or something like this, you know? He doesn't know anything more; it just keys out on the E-Meter. Well, anything that just keys out on the E-Meter on two-way comm, without knowing any more about it, can darned well key right back in again. Got that? Even though it takes him a half a lifetime to get it all back keyed-in once more, he'll manage it.

Now, those pieces would stay keyed-out that he found sudden knowingness on. Wherever he recovered a little piece of knowingness, you've got an erasure. So, those are quite accidental. The individual says, „Oh, I'd forgotten all about that particular church. I didn't remember that church. What do you know? It was right down there on the corner and there it was, ha!“ You're not going to get an aberration again on that church, see? But you say, „Sacred fire,“ and it keys out. He never says, „Hey, what do you know? Yeah, Greece, I remember,“ you know, or anything like this, or „Is that why I always jump when I see the torch of knowledge?“ or something like this, you know? He doesn't know anything more; it just keys out on the E-Meter. Well, anything that just keys out on the E-Meter on two-way comm, without knowing any more about it, can darned well key right back in again. Got that? Even though it takes him a half a lifetime to get it all back keyed-in once more, he'll manage it.

So, a characteristic here, of scouting, can be stated very easily: Those things which key out, of course, are keying out. The Rock itself basically could simply get lost by having all of its key-ins disappear. (See Book One for these technical terms.) All the key-ins of the Rock disappear. Now, the thing might be able to float for another three generations before it develops a new key-in. But from there on, he's in trouble just the same way he was before. Don't you see? It disappeared but it's still there.

So, a characteristic here, of scouting, can be stated very easily: Those things which key out, of course, are keying out. The Rock itself basically could simply get lost by having all of its key-ins disappear. (See Book One for these technical terms.) All the key-ins of the Rock disappear. Now, the thing might be able to float for another three generations before it develops a new key-in. But from there on, he's in trouble just the same way he was before. Don't you see? It disappeared but it's still there.

Now, oppose this to the proposition of erasing it with an actual and accurate process.

Now, oppose this to the proposition of erasing it with an actual and accurate process.

Now, in looking for a Rock, there are certain rules which are followed. One is that that which frees up - that item connected with the item that you have found stuck, which frees up - isn't it. It is simply a - you've just keyed something out. And that which stays keyed-in is what you follow. And as stuck a needle as possible is what you pursue. And as you keep taking things off of the needle, you keep finding things that aren't the Rock.

Now, in looking for a Rock, there are certain rules which are followed. One is that that which frees up - that item connected with the item that you have found stuck, which frees up - isn't it. It is simply a - you've just keyed something out. And that which stays keyed-in is what you follow. And as stuck a needle as possible is what you pursue. And as you keep taking things off of the needle, you keep finding things that aren't the Rock.

A sudden slamming needle we know little about but is apparently a designation that you're somewhere around the Rock chain. That is a symptom. A hard one to handle because it - the needle is actually stuck but it is slamming. Do you get the idea? And you don't know what it is stuck on or what it isn't stuck on. You sometimes have to settle one of these needles down before you can get going anywhere. So, I just disregard one. I know I'm near the Rock chain when I'm near the Rock chain without the E-Meter helping me out that much - slamming from corner to corner of the dial, you know, saying, „Hey, hey, hey, hey, Ron, Rock, Rock, Rock!“ You know? I'm looking for it to say, „wherein.“ I know where I am and where the pc is, and I don't need too much symptom. But you'll find the needle doing that: erratic slams. When you get near a Rock chain, you get erratic slams.

A sudden slamming needle we know little about but is apparently a designation that you're somewhere around the Rock chain. That is a symptom. A hard one to handle because it - the needle is actually stuck but it is slamming. Do you get the idea? And you don't know what it is stuck on or what it isn't stuck on. You sometimes have to settle one of these needles down before you can get going anywhere. So, I just disregard one. I know I'm near the Rock chain when I'm near the Rock chain without the E-Meter helping me out that much - slamming from corner to corner of the dial, you know, saying, „Hey, hey, hey, hey, Ron, Rock, Rock, Rock!“ You know? I'm looking for it to say, „wherein.“ I know where I am and where the pc is, and I don't need too much symptom. But you'll find the needle doing that: erratic slams. When you get near a Rock chain, you get erratic slams.

Now, you follow the track of what stays stuck. Now, what does „stuck“ mean? „Stuck“ means persistent reaction with very narrow fluctuations. And if you don't know that one, then you will never really pin an almost fixed needle down. Every time you say, „temple,“ you get an almost fixed needle, see? Then you go on to something else and the needle vacillates and does this and that and so forth. And you get onto „horse harness“ and other aberrative things. And you get back finally and all of a sudden you remember that you have some kind of a little consistent reaction on „temple,“ see? And you come back to „temple“ - it's still doing it. Ha-ha! Ha-ha! And then you go off onto „sacred fire“ and „priest“ and „priestess“ and „hymnbooks“ and „spires“ and „crosses“ and „crucifixes“ and „cats“ and „mice“ and other religious things. And it just frees up and goes this way and goes that way but every time you come back to „temple“ or something like that, it still does this little funny dance.

Now, you follow the track of what stays stuck. Now, what does „stuck“ mean? „Stuck“ means persistent reaction with very narrow fluctuations. And if you don't know that one, then you will never really pin an almost fixed needle down. Every time you say, „temple,“ you get an almost fixed needle, see? Then you go on to something else and the needle vacillates and does this and that and so forth. And you get onto „horse harness“ and other aberrative things. And you get back finally and all of a sudden you remember that you have some kind of a little consistent reaction on „temple,“ see? And you come back to „temple“ - it's still doing it. Ha-ha! Ha-ha! And then you go off onto „sacred fire“ and „priest“ and „priestess“ and „hymnbooks“ and „spires“ and „crosses“ and „crucifixes“ and „cats“ and „mice“ and other religious things. And it just frees up and goes this way and goes that way but every time you come back to „temple“ or something like that, it still does this little funny dance.

Well now, that is a consistency of performance, isn't it, on the part of a needle. „Temple“ behaves in a certain way.

Well now, that is a consistency of performance, isn't it, on the part of a needle. „Temple“ behaves in a certain way.

A preclear can be so exteriorized from the Rock and yo-yoing, that all you see of the Rock is a theta bop and that's why some of you miss it. You've got to pin that bop but he's obsessively exteriorizing all the time he's on the Rock. And you'll get a theta bop. Every time you mention „temple,“ you get a theta bop. And you'll say, „Well, we want a stuck needle; we don't want that thing.“ What's a theta bop? That means: if I went in any closer to it, I would be stuck like mad. So, I've got to stay this far out from it, and even though I keep going this way in life - yo-yo-yo-yo-yo, which is what your hunt is - that's still much safer, you know, and to be close in to that „temple.“ You discuss „temples“ a little bit; you take a few locks off of „temples,“ you remove a few things, and all of a sudden „temple“ is stuck.

A preclear can be so exteriorized from the Rock and yo-yoing, that all you see of the Rock is a theta bop and that's why some of you miss it. You've got to pin that bop but he's obsessively exteriorizing all the time he's on the Rock. And you'll get a theta bop. Every time you mention „temple,“ you get a theta bop. And you'll say, „Well, we want a stuck needle; we don't want that thing.“ What's a theta bop? That means: if I went in any closer to it, I would be stuck like mad. So, I've got to stay this far out from it, and even though I keep going this way in life - yo-yo-yo-yo-yo, which is what your hunt is - that's still much safer, you know, and to be close in to that „temple.“ You discuss „temples“ a little bit; you take a few locks off of „temples,“ you remove a few things, and all of a sudden „temple“ is stuck.

Now, when a needle is finally stuck - don't go too far astray on this - when a needle is finally stuck (exclamation point), brother, is it stuck! Sometimes you have to audit the actual Rock for a while before you get a finally totally stuck needle and then you could crank an E-Meter up to 16 and it really looks „Rock.“ That's basically where the thing got its name; the needle sticks like a rock.

Now, when a needle is finally stuck - don't go too far astray on this - when a needle is finally stuck (exclamation point), brother, is it stuck! Sometimes you have to audit the actual Rock for a while before you get a finally totally stuck needle and then you could crank an E-Meter up to 16 and it really looks „Rock.“ That's basically where the thing got its name; the needle sticks like a rock.

See, you got so much exteriorization, so much yo-yo from the thing, that you got this little theta bop, hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt, hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt. Every time you mention „temple,“ hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt, you got the pc in a facsimile which contains an exteriorization, see? There's an engram there with exteriorization connected with the thing, and he's not going to get a stuck needle. See? He's just going to get a theta bop, until you work that thing down.

See, you got so much exteriorization, so much yo-yo from the thing, that you got this little theta bop, hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt, hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt. Every time you mention „temple,“ hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt-hunt, you got the pc in a facsimile which contains an exteriorization, see? There's an engram there with exteriorization connected with the thing, and he's not going to get a stuck needle. See? He's just going to get a theta bop, until you work that thing down.

Now, of course, by keying some things out in connection with it, you then take a little charge off of the topmost lock that you were working with there. You take some charge off of it and the thing can settle down and you might say the pc can light. And then you'll get a stuck needle. So, a theta bop must never be neglected. Now, that's the use of a theta bop in finding the Rock.

Now, of course, by keying some things out in connection with it, you then take a little charge off of the topmost lock that you were working with there. You take some charge off of it and the thing can settle down and you might say the pc can light. And then you'll get a stuck needle. So, a theta bop must never be neglected. Now, that's the use of a theta bop in finding the Rock.

The next thing - I know you've been educated to believe that a stuck needle would simply show up and stick-wham. If you're good enough and persuasive enough and work at it long enough, yes, you'll always get a stuck needle. But that is not your early manifestation; your early manifestation may be just a little bit of a hunt. Every time you hit anything on religious subjects or every time you hit anything about war, you get a-an odd change in the needle. That's the - change is what you look for first.

The next thing - I know you've been educated to believe that a stuck needle would simply show up and stick-wham. If you're good enough and persuasive enough and work at it long enough, yes, you'll always get a stuck needle. But that is not your early manifestation; your early manifestation may be just a little bit of a hunt. Every time you hit anything on religious subjects or every time you hit anything about war, you get a-an odd change in the needle. That's the - change is what you look for first.

Now, the next one is the additive rise. When that needle starts rising on something - you said, „temple“ and then you said, „hymnbook“ and then you said, „temple“ and it stuck, you see. Maybe there's a little theta bop; it's not fixed absolutely but there it is and you're saying „temple.“ And then you say, „hymnbook.“ Ho-ho-ho. The needle starts to rise, needle starts to rise just as nice up to the top of the scale, and it would go on rising as long as you talked about „hymnbooks.“ Now, you stop talking about „hymnbooks,“ and it stops rising. Neh-heh. Is that of any use to you? Yes.

Now, the next one is the additive rise. When that needle starts rising on something - you said, „temple“ and then you said, „hymnbook“ and then you said, „temple“ and it stuck, you see. Maybe there's a little theta bop; it's not fixed absolutely but there it is and you're saying „temple.“ And then you say, „hymnbook.“ Ho-ho-ho. The needle starts to rise, needle starts to rise just as nice up to the top of the scale, and it would go on rising as long as you talked about „hymnbooks.“ Now, you stop talking about „hymnbooks,“ and it stops rising. Neh-heh. Is that of any use to you? Yes.

He'd never thought of hanging this one on the Rock and the auditor in this particular case has acted as the key-in mechanism. And it's the auditor who has keyed in „hymnbooks“ and he never before has had „hymnbooks“ added to the Rock. And you've added something new to the aberrative chain, all by your little lonesome.

He'd never thought of hanging this one on the Rock and the auditor in this particular case has acted as the key-in mechanism. And it's the auditor who has keyed in „hymnbooks“ and he never before has had „hymnbooks“ added to the Rock. And you've added something new to the aberrative chain, all by your little lonesome.

And that is very good diagnosis because it says, „Look what kind of thing adds to the Rock chain”. „Hymnbook!“ Ha-ha! We are on a religious chain after all, aren't we? We must be on a religious chain because nothing else adds to the silly thing but „hymnbook.“ Now, we might go around and find some - this would be a dirty trick to go around latter-day and add some new things to it and see if it still rose every time we added a new religious thing. So we'd add „automobiles“ and we just got nowhere, you see? And we'd add „office buildings“ and we'd get nowhere. See, that proves our null on these items. And then we would say - then we would say, „the Holy Rollers,“ you know? „The Holy Rollers,“ and we get zduuuuu; we get an additive rise. And we say, „Oh, boy, we got the Rock,“ see? We've got the Rock but it is at some little distance from what we're talking about and we haven't got it nailed yet. But we have actually selected out a class of subjects which add to the Rock, and this is as fully a good a test as actually sticking a needle.

And that is very good diagnosis because it says, „Look what kind of thing adds to the Rock chain”. „Hymnbook!“ Ha-ha! We are on a religious chain after all, aren't we? We must be on a religious chain because nothing else adds to the silly thing but „hymnbook.“ Now, we might go around and find some - this would be a dirty trick to go around latter-day and add some new things to it and see if it still rose every time we added a new religious thing. So we'd add „automobiles“ and we just got nowhere, you see? And we'd add „office buildings“ and we'd get nowhere. See, that proves our null on these items. And then we would say - then we would say, „the Holy Rollers,“ you know? „The Holy Rollers,“ and we get zduuuuu; we get an additive rise. And we say, „Oh, boy, we got the Rock,“ see? We've got the Rock but it is at some little distance from what we're talking about and we haven't got it nailed yet. But we have actually selected out a class of subjects which add to the Rock, and this is as fully a good a test as actually sticking a needle.

We've at least got the class of subjects. Now, let's rack around inside this class till we find something maybe that theta bops; and if we find something that theta bops, let's take things associated with it and get some of the „bop“ off, see, so that the needle sticks. And the next thing you know, let's hunt things off of the top of the thing until we finally get a good fixed needle which thereafter isn't going to audit short of auditing.

We've at least got the class of subjects. Now, let's rack around inside this class till we find something maybe that theta bops; and if we find something that theta bops, let's take things associated with it and get some of the „bop“ off, see, so that the needle sticks. And the next thing you know, let's hunt things off of the top of the thing until we finally get a good fixed needle which thereafter isn't going to audit short of auditing.

We want to get the needle in such bad shape that only a powerful process can budge it - we've got the Rock. You follow me? There are special Rocks. There is one special Rock that would beat you to death in trying to find out what it was. We won't take that up in this particular lecture; we'll take that up later.

We want to get the needle in such bad shape that only a powerful process can budge it - we've got the Rock. You follow me? There are special Rocks. There is one special Rock that would beat you to death in trying to find out what it was. We won't take that up in this particular lecture; we'll take that up later.

The rule of the establishment of Rocks is this: that with which the preclear has attempted to reach people or things to enhance or suppress creativeness. That's the central rule.

The rule of the establishment of Rocks is this: that with which the preclear has attempted to reach people or things to enhance or suppress creativeness. That's the central rule.

Your central Rock question for all Rocks of any kind is: What would reach people? What would reach things? And that is an analytical question which reaps real paydirt. And that is what the Rock is for.

Your central Rock question for all Rocks of any kind is: What would reach people? What would reach things? And that is an analytical question which reaps real paydirt. And that is what the Rock is for.

A ridge is an energy mass created by reach and withdraw - 1952. And the ridge and the stuckness of the needle, is caused by a reach and withdraw. The individual used something to reach with - he reached, he reached, he reached, he reached, he reached. Then he failed and he started to withdraw. And every time he'd reach, he'd try to withdraw. And finally reach became withdraw. And finally he had a ridge. And when you hit this ridge on an E-Meter, you get a stuck needle and when you audit on brackets, you undo the ridge.

A ridge is an energy mass created by reach and withdraw - 1952. And the ridge and the stuckness of the needle, is caused by a reach and withdraw. The individual used something to reach with - he reached, he reached, he reached, he reached, he reached. Then he failed and he started to withdraw. And every time he'd reach, he'd try to withdraw. And finally reach became withdraw. And finally he had a ridge. And when you hit this ridge on an E-Meter, you get a stuck needle and when you audit on brackets, you undo the ridge.

And Help is the keyest button there is to undo anything because that is the primary persistence button and so the whole thing comes apart. And that's the basic rule concerning the Rock, and so on.

And Help is the keyest button there is to undo anything because that is the primary persistence button and so the whole thing comes apart. And that's the basic rule concerning the Rock, and so on.

Now, you can scout for responsibility, „What have you had to be responsible for?“ and other things, if you were having a great deal of trouble trying to get your pc pinned down. But a constantly rising needle is a special case and we'll take that up later.

Now, you can scout for responsibility, „What have you had to be responsible for?“ and other things, if you were having a great deal of trouble trying to get your pc pinned down. But a constantly rising needle is a special case and we'll take that up later.

A needle which rises on everything at all times, and so forth, is the easiest needle to stick of all. That is just nothing. But these that don't stick very hard and aren't very aberrative and you hunt and punch around on, they sometimes can be absolute killers.

A needle which rises on everything at all times, and so forth, is the easiest needle to stick of all. That is just nothing. But these that don't stick very hard and aren't very aberrative and you hunt and punch around on, they sometimes can be absolute killers.

But Sherlock Holmes himself would be a punk at this business, so I want to compliment you on doing very well so far. And I am just proud as Punch for the fact that so many have cases wheeling now as they do have. And we're going to get rid of these things.

But Sherlock Holmes himself would be a punk at this business, so I want to compliment you on doing very well so far. And I am just proud as Punch for the fact that so many have cases wheeling now as they do have. And we're going to get rid of these things.

I can even tell you how to key out the whole of your auditing, to key out the whole of the Rock all at one fell swoop with one auditing question - wham. Now, that merely keys it out, doesn't much examine it and so forth. Certainly puts a person in wonderful shape. You want to use a technique like that on a fellow like Paul Coates, so the week after you audit him, it'll all fall in again.

I can even tell you how to key out the whole of your auditing, to key out the whole of the Rock all at one fell swoop with one auditing question - wham. Now, that merely keys it out, doesn't much examine it and so forth. Certainly puts a person in wonderful shape. You want to use a technique like that on a fellow like Paul Coates, so the week after you audit him, it'll all fall in again.

Okay, I think you're doing fine.

Okay, I think you're doing fine.

Did the data I gave you today help you out any?

Did the data I gave you today help you out any?

Audience: Yes.

Audience: Yes.

All right. Thank you very much.

All right. Thank you very much.