LRH: Now, do you remember a time when you were really in communication with somebody?

Here is some data on Case Level V especially addressed here to that case, and given to the auditor for his own evaluation and use, but also as the step for Case V. This is the step for Case V. In your mimeographed sheet, you will find this as the step for Case V.

PC: Really in communication? Oh yes, numerous times.

There could be many ways to solve Case V, but to some degree we have to evaluate all of these techniques against the patience of the auditor and the possible sanity or insanity of the preclear. And let me assure you that a Case V, (most cases will not) but some Case V's and some Case IV's, unless they are adroitly handled, will, bluntly, spin.

LRH: One.

Now, spinning is not desirable in a preclear. Every auditor discourages this and therefore we should give considerable thought to how we audit any case, just any case. We should keep in mind, for instance, that we are dealing with the woof and warp of not only the mind, but the beingness of the individual — his soul, if you please.

PC: Well, at lunch time.

And in dealing with this, you are dealing as well with the material which composes insanity; therefore, you must take very good care, when you are auditing, not to do anything outside the Auditor's Code, not to get too adventurous, because you cannot be sure that your case has not finished, for instance, a bad quarrel at home, that he has not been just fired, or that something painful has occurred to him before the session.

LRH: At lunch time?

And maybe you've had this person for five sessions, and he has run very evenly and smoothly and nothing has occurred. He's in pretty good shape. You've had him five sessions; he's a Step IV. You're bringing him up toward an Operating Thetan; all seems to be going well.

PC: Mm-hm.

You get in this next session, and you don't look at him closely; you don't pay much attention to him. You just start in where you left off before. You look at what little case book you're keeping, (you should always keep a case book on a case and just note down what you did, and make a little case report; and send them to me, if you would). And put the — you look into the book, you know, you say, "Well, we were doing so-and-so and so-and-so, and in doing so-and-so and so-and-so, we got ourselves a good release on this subject and so we'll just keep on from there."

LRH: Good, good. Now, you remember a time when you really knew somebody felt some affinity for you.

And you start in with a rather difficult technique, let's say Admiration Processing — you're doing a lot with admiration — and the first thing you know, your preclear looks a little bit ill, and he looks a little bit worse and he looks a little bit worse and he looks a little bit worse. And maybe you say, "Well, we shouldn't do much more processing, then, today. Well, you're probably tired or something." Let's let him have a good sleep, and we'll hit a crack at it next Tuesday. And you'll find out that two days before he was due for a session, he was in very bad shape after that session with you.

PC: Uh — yes, as I was leaving Auckland .. . Mm-hm.

Well, what happened? What happened was he received some kind of a shock. It had (quote) "dried up," you might say, some communication lines, and what little processing you gave him opened the wrong lines. Now, that's very important, you see?

PC: ... and coming over here.

That tells you two things. That the fellow actually wouldn't spin and go to a sanitarium. It would take the crudest kind of auditing to do that to an individual. You'd almost have to blackjack him and give him an implant to do that to him. Or, all of a sudden turn your back on him when he was in the middle of a grief charge, or something of the sort, and say, "Ah, that's not important, skip it," or get mad at him or something like that and stick him on the track. You have to do something outrageous! And it would have to be as outrageous as a blackjack and drugs to make nearly any preclear you have spin.

LRH: Mm-hm. Now, excuse me, I'll make a comment on this.

But remember, there's always that one who is a sleeper. He's just a sleeper, and you won't spin him so badly that you can't dig him out of it. But it will probably — sooner or later, you'll get hold of a preclear that is going to give you a bad few days. And he looked perfectly all right, you did perfectly all right, but, ha-ha, it wasn't perfectly all right. You get the idea? You gave him just a little bit too much beef, just a little bit too heavy, you fed it to him too fast, and .. .

(to audience] Only reason I was showing you this, you've got a fast communication lag index here. And if he hasn't been out of his body under older techniques, somebody ought to be shot.

What's the source of all this, by the way? Well, what — we take up two things right now, just very briefly. What's insanity? That's one of them. And the other one, how do you keep from having things like this happen? I, honestly, I couldn't say this to an auditor enough times, if we've got a big sign over the door there: "Communicate with your preclear," so that you could see it every day (it would probably become meaningless to you in a short time).

LRH: Let's go up and grab ahold of those two corners of the room up there .. .

You have to be willing to be the preclear. Isn't that horrible? You'd have to be willing, then, to be almost anybody to be a good auditor. Many auditors will audit themselves tired; they'll audit themselves dry; they'll audit themselves stale. And they'll get to a point where they no longer want to be the preclear.

PC: Mm-hm.

They'll audit the preclear all by himself; they won't pay any attention to this injunction about "have somebody else present, have another body present." If you can't have another body, for God's sakes, at least have another dummy present, something there that will take up the double terminal effect, some-thing like that. He'll — won't pay attention to that injunction. He'll get stale, in other words, he'll get the idea he doesn't want to be this aberrated person. And he stops communicating with him because beingness and communication, as we know, are pretty well the same thing.

LRH: . . . from inside your head. Shut your eyes and grab ahold of those two corners of the room. This would be, by the way, just standard pro — you could just do this just as I'm doing it right here and you'd be safe as a bug in a rug with every case you ran.

All right, you get — he doesn't want to be this person anymore, so he doesn't communicate with him, and what do you know, every confounded error I have ever found in auditing had its inception in this little summation: The auditor did not communicate with the preclear.

PC: Yes, I've got them.

The auditor went outgoing to the preclear, and never incoming. The pre-clear said something; the auditor was over Mars or back of beyond somewhere and was just going to sit there and give those routine commands, and the auditor didn't hear it. And what do you know, what went by in that instant? The signal that he was just about to hit an apathy charge which would practically spin him unless handled very well. There was the signal of why he was so upset; there was the signal that an engram had just shown up, the like of which nobody had ever heard of, and if it wasn't handled in just that moment, all hell would break loose and so the auditor just drifted off.

LRH: You've got them?

Now, the auditor doesn't have to sit there on the edge of his chair. The auditor just has to remember this: he's got to be willing to be that preclear. And he'll stay in communication with him. So he'll hear what the preclear is doing. He wants to know what the preclear is doing. A good auditor never lets that preclear sit there for five minutes silent — never.

PC: Mm-hm.

"What are you doing?" He says, "All right, now," he says, "I want you to get this whole bunch of mock-ups and just keep putting a double terminal there of yourself facing yourself, admiring yourself, and being happy. Okay? So you just put — keep putting that there."

LRH: Hold on to them for a moment, and don't think.

Well, you know, actually the preclear could sit there and do that for two or three hours. Is this any signal, then, for the auditor to go off someplace or get a drink of water or something like that? No, sir.

PC: The "don't think" part comes hard.

This guy is putting — anybody the auditor would ask to do that, by the way, has got to be watched, so he'd put them there, you know, and he'd put them there and put them there.

LRH: Mm-hm. Well, just get interested in the corners.

After he's obviously put not more than six or eight there — pang! pang! pang! pang! pang! — as an auditor I would say to him, "All right, how's it going?" Or "What are they doing?" Let him put another dozen passes with these double terminals. "Now, how's it going?"

PC: Mm-hm.

You're practically sitting there with a shotgun in your hands. Why? Because a IV, not a V or a VI or much less a VII, but a IV will all of a sudden start evaluating. He'll all of a sudden start figuring. You could say, "What's wrong with this preclear?" Well, I'll tell you what's wrong with the preclear: he thinks. That's the trouble with him.

LRH: Find any old dirt or anything up there?

You know, we have a maxim. We say, "The trouble with this guy is he doesn't think." Well, unfortunately, that's no trouble. If you've got a guy who doesn't think, he's either a complete moron or a Clear.

PC: No, they look very, very clean.

Now, the naval services are always saying — somebody's storming down the deck and saying, "Well, now, now, don't think!" Anybody who is unfortunate enough to say, "I think, Mr. Dumb John, that . . ." — why, always the inevitable reply is, "Don't think, I'll do the thinking around here." Well, that's a circuit, you see?

LRH: Mm-hm.

So the guy that's "I'll do the thinking around here," inevitably is in the bind — the same ratio that beingness is to thinkingness. And the circuits will all of a sudden say, "And well, what do you know? This fellow's kind of distracted here at the moment. He isn't paying this — the thetan isn't paying attention to this guy that runs us. He isn't paying attention here. Ahem. We'll just slide him in one."

PC: The left — the right-hand one's hard to get.

And he'll suddenly — circuit will suddenly say, "Ah, this is getting noplace."

LRH: Mm, well keep putting it back there to get it.

The fellow will say, "You know, I wonder why, I'm — it's not — getting noplace. I wonder why — I don't know what that is. Let's see, I don't want that, hm-hm, ta-da-da-da. Hum. Hm. Let's see, I'm double-terminaling my father, and my father probably always said that." (Unfortunately, this fellow might have read Book One, you know?) And he says, "My father always used to say that, and I suppose by now I've run into my father," and so on. "And possibly if I let these things shift over to being my father, why, then I would get some more of these computations. And maybe if I double-terminal a double terminal or something else, something else will happen. Now, let me see, let me figure, figure-figure-figure-figure-figure-figure-figure-figure-figure."

That, by the way, is — if you checked bodies on an E-Meter, you'd find out one-half of the body is one sex and the other half of the body is the other sex according to the E-Meter. It's very fascinating.

What do you want this guy to do? Do you want him to think? No, you don't want him to think. Never! Never let a preclear think. Make him act. Act, that's all you want. So you take your finger off of him; you don't ask him what he's doing. He's — there he is thinking. The heck with thinking!

PC: You've got me thinking about that. Now, how will I ever get these corners back here.

When you say Case Level V you are saying emphatically, "figure-figure-figure!" (exclamation point) That's the trouble with Case Level V: They figure.

LRH: But you know what it will be. You're not supposed to think!

Now, why do they figure? What is this thing called figure, figure, figure? You'll find the first thing that you'll learn about this case is that he has to figure it all out in advance so he can predict it. And every datum he receives anywhere around is a datum he is going to use to predict future behavior. In other words, he's so busy predicting future behavior, he never has any chance to be.

You know what'll happen if you check somebody on this. If the right-hand side is (this is something you don't have to know) if the right-hand side is pretty badly out of communication, why, it's doing a life continuum on Papa or Grandpa, like that. And the left-hand side is pretty bad off and so forth, well, you've got a life continuum on women. But when you're running (Mama, Grandma, something like that) but when you're running a case and you find out the left-hand side runs and the right-hand side doesn't run, why, you know — have you ever noticed that? A stroke case? That's a stroke case, you know? I mean, one-half of the body is functioning, the other half of the body isn't functioning, so forth? The half that is functioning will be intimately connected with somebody who's had a stroke. All right, now just bluntly, I don't care whether the preclear says so or not, it just works out that way, that's all.

Now, why can't this fellow be around in the society, and be here and be there and be in other places like a Step I? Step I can't think, they're — tend to be moronic. They — all right.

So that if the left-hand side of the body was functioning, there's a male member of the family who's had a stroke. That's all there is to it.

Now, why is this fellow — why is this fellow, this — he's smart! Well, there's no doubt about that. You'll find nearly every good engineer that you run into is a Case Level V. Unfortunate, but true. Now, why is this fellow doing this — doing this figure, figure, figure? What's the reason?

What's the matter with this person then? Is he imbalanced? Are his flows unbalanced or something like that? Well, no, no. You show — you'll see this very marked, though, in some cases, and — that don't immediately show up as having had a stroke. They've had one, one time or another!

He has to know before he is. And you can put that over his tombstone: He had to know before he was. And so he never became, of course, because he had to know before he was. And you can't know before you was, because you never was then, you see? Very simple, it's very direct.

LRH: Got those corners?

But he has to find out if it's all right to be there, before he is there, so he needs data about there before he can approach there! So does he approach there? No. He gets the data about there. And this tells him that it's unwise to be there, so he doesn't move.

PC: Yep.

And you tell a V to get out of his body, and you say, "Now, let's be over on top of that flowerpot over there."

LRH: Real good?

And the V says, "Let me see, flowerpot. Flowerpots break out of windows, they fall down on pavement, they hit people in the heads. Flowerpots are dangerous. And besides, there are sometimes bees around flowers, and if I went over there, I'd get stung by a bee." I mean, that — a thetan getting stung by a bee hasn't happened yet, but he might think this.

PC: I've got one.

See, all these circuits suddenly cut in, and they all cut in on the subject of flowerpots, so he — figure-figure-figure-figure-figure-figure-figures. And does he get over there, is over fl — nuh-uh, uh-uh. No, he's still in his head.

LRH: Get the other one.

So you say, "All right, now move from the flower."

See, now, this is — this is a little trick here. This is getting the control centers balanced in present time. And if you kept this up, and made him keep fishing for the other corner, you'd come out in the long run with the control centers balanced.

"Well, I'm not at the flowerpot."

If you want to know something about control centers, they're all there in AP&A; it talks a lot about control centers, a subject that's very, very unimportant: GE; how's the body built; what are the various control centers of the body.

Now sometimes, by the way, if you make him mock up a few flowerpots, then say, "Get over the flowerpot," he'll be over the flowerpot. But don't ask him to be over the next flowerpot; he hasn't examined that one yet.

Somebody starts talking to you about nerve reflexes, though, what are these nerve reflexes? They're sub-minds; they're old circuits and control centers.

Now, do you get what's wrong, then, with a circuit and what's wrong with a Case Level V and what a circuit is? And actually what all thinking is? It's to predict the future without being anything connected with the future. So you take the data of the past and you could predict security for the future.

If somebody comes in, no feeling in this elbow and no control on this hand, what's that mean? The control center's shot over here on the right-hand side.

Now you see, you have to do that if you can't be things at will. If you can't be things at will, and if you're not — if you're not capable of expanding largely and being very self-confident, and so forth.

Got it yet?

And, by the way, the self-confident fellow never has to do much figuring about the future. See, he's got self-confidence, he's capable of being some-thing; he's in good shape, and so on. The money takes care of itself; so does the food, the clothing, the shelter. These things come in. A man almost indexes against his ability to be, on income. All right.

PC: There's one over here on the right, there...

So these circuits cut in, and as he begins more and more cautious, more and more cautious, he figure-figure-figure-figure, more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more, and he — what do you know, he sets up automatic machinery to do the figuring for him. It's not enough, you see, that he just thinks about it and figures it out on known data, he sets up machinery.

LRH: You just keep putting it back there.

Now, this is mechanistic. He sets up a better computer to do this than the ENIAC or the UNIVAC, big electronic brains that the geniuses at MIT invent. These big electronic computers are actually playthings compared to the amount of factors that can be handled by one of these silly circuits. And you get a thetan rummaging around in his cranium sometime, or around in his masses of energy, and he'll say, "Well, there's a — there's this little box here."

PC: . . . and the left side here .. .

"What's that little box?"

LRH: You just keep putting it back there.

"Well, that's a circuit."

PC: . . . the left-hand — back.

"Well, what circuit is that?"

LRH: Keep putting it back.

"That's the one that tells me when to eat." Fascinating. All right.

PC: I know it's there.

If — and of course, he has all of these computers set up. There are tremendous batteries of computers, and each one is set up on a postulate, but each one is on, based solidly on an experience which contained pain and unconsciousness, which means hidden data. So all of your circuits are based on hidden data. And you can say that a circuit — the base of a circuit is hid-den data. The base of every computation is a hidden datum.

LRH: It isn't even important to get that side in present time, but we will. Feel it.

What do you want to know in arithmetic? You want to know the answer. Why do you want to know the answer? Because you don't know the answer, that's why you want to know the answer, you see? That's a good reason, too. You want to know how many apples there are in that barrel. The reason you want to know how many apples in the barrel is you don't trust the grocer. The reason you have to buy them is you can't be the grocer and give them to you. Well, anyway.

PC: Yep.

So here we have — here we have the hidden datum as the bottom of a circuit. Now, why is it the hidden datum? Well, a fellow — here's the way a V degenerates. He's circulating around in the society and he's having a good time in the environment. He's going around and he's doing this, he's being that; he's just enjoying himself hugely, and all is going well. And one day — one day he finds out that if he had sent something to somebody yesterday, why, he would have saved them an awful lot of trouble, and he didn't know it was that important; in other words, a hidden datum. But on the other hand, maybe it wouldn't have made any difference if he'd sent it yesterday. But of course, it would have made some difference; but on the other hand it wouldn't have made any difference, and so you get the first maybe. That's a weak little maybe.

LRH: Finally connect?

Let's take a much better one. He's walking down the road, he's got this body. This body's in pretty good shape. It's feeling very frisky and he steps on the grass. He slips. He goes into a rock — crash! — and bungs his shin all up and spills some blood, leaves a scar on that lovely shin and by golly, there was a hidden datum. What was the hidden datum? The rock and the grass. Furthermore, grass is slippery; he didn't know that before. You could put shoe leather on a grass, and apply some pressure wrongly, and slide and fall if the grass is wet. And so it was a hidden thing in his environment which presented him with some treachery.

PC: I know the feeling of it.

Now, understand the only reason it could present him with some treachery is he was very anxious to hold on to what he was holding on to. And second reason is he didn't have enough horsepower when he felt that foot slip, just to reach over and pick up the body by the collar and set it back on the road. So it was an error to set up the circuit. It really was an error to set up the circuit to get around that.

LRH: Get somebody else to feel it from the other side. Now, have two dinosaurs feel it, start to feel it.

He should have looked himself over, having done this trick, and wondered, what on earth had contracted — see, the other thing — had contracted his beingness at that moment. And he would find inevitably he had selected out something for randomity in that environment so as to make him interested in life.

PC: Two what?

He'd said after this — he says, "You know," he says, "I'm not going to be — I'm not going to be the scenery on a road, so I will be able to walk down roads and enjoy it. I'm not going to look around curves before I get to them so they'll always surprise me." That's the first thing a fellow starts setting up. He starts setting out blank areas so he'll be surprised by what's in them. And after a while, boy, is he surprised! He's shut down his beingness.

LRH: Dinosaurs.

Well, he do — he remedies this, then, with a circuit. So your circuit computes on past data for future warnings and how to get around them. Data, data, data, data, data, data, data.

PC: Oh, yeah.

Now, it isn't that the data is unnecessary, very far from it. But there is most of the data, which one accumulates, isn't worth having. For instance, you could study for an awful long time — you could have studied how to make a pilot have a faster reaction time for twelve years, up to a couple of years ago, and you wouldn't have given him a second's worth of faster reaction time. I mean, there's a tremendous body of knowledge there which wasn't delivering the stuff. And you'll find this is the case with most circuits; they don't deliver the material.

LRH: Two big dinosaurs. They start to feel it. See, it's dark. There must be something in that corner; this is adjudication. Let's just speed up the process instead of fishing. Have these two big dinosaurs...

Now, that is the test, then, of whether or not one's computer is working or whether one is thinking analytically: Is it delivering the answer? That's the — that's the test of any computer: Is it delivering the answer, or does it just keep on saying there's an answer without ever delivering the answer?

PC: Yes.

So that's a test of a circuit, isn't it? Because when we're dealing with a Case Level V, we're dealing with a circuit case. And everything said about, circuits in Book One, everything said about circuits in Science of Survival, this all applies, but here we know more about circuits than we did before.

LRH: . . . and have them start to feel it and then suddenly say to each other, "My God, no! That's Turnbull feeling that!" And run like hell! Have them do that now.

Now, there are several tests of a circuit; that's the first one. This fellow have circuits? How do we find out if he has circuits? Is he worried about hid-den data? Is this hidden data worrying him?

PC: Here they've come to the other end, yeah

Does he worry — somebody says, "You got a letter yesterday."

LRH: Now, have two crocodiles come up there to get your anchor point that you're trying to put up there, and have them suddenly notice it's you, and get down and pray.

And the fellow said, "Where was it? What — where is this letter?" "Well, I don't know. It was mislaid. It's around here someplace." And he starts looking for the letter.

PC:Well, the other one's gone.

Well look, I mean letters aren't that important. And well, he looks for the letter, and he doesn't find the letter, and he gets kind of upset about this letter, and he says to the other fellow, "Well, what was — who was it from? I mean what did it have up on the corner of it? What did it have on the back of it? Did you notice what handwriting it was in?" Rrrrr!

LRH: Well, get them both there now. You get that corner yet?

That's a circuit, that's a circuit.

PC: Yes, but it seems to be in the wrong place.

See, he's worried about a hidden communication. And now you build this up and you'll find out that the V is so worried about hidden communications that it's all dark, and everything out there is dark, and everything that there — where there's darkness there's a hidden communication in it.

LRH: The corner's in the wrong place?

So what do you do? One of the ways to resolve this is a very amusing way to resolve this (you can put this down). You can just have him mock up — and you understand a V can't mock up a thing; that's his test. All right, now, he can't mock up, but you have him mock up, out beyond that darkness and so forth, beings in the darkness who suddenly discover that this person they're near is Joe — whatever the preclear's name is, see — they suddenly discover that's Joe, and they get real scared and run away. Two beings facing each other, they — out there in the hidden darkness.

PC: Yeah.

And then you have two more horrible beings being all set, crouching in wait behind a couple of rocks (this is all by concept, you understand) and have these two beings all of a sudden find out it's Joe! And then be very pleased and happy and step out into the clear, say, "Well, it's Joe." You'll be surprised what this does. What you're doing is double-terminaling out fear of hidden influences.

LRH: Well...

The most flagrant hidden influence, of course, is a snake. You walk along and there's Mr. Snake, and he's in the grass and there you step and there you go!

PC: Yeah, I'll put it up there again.

That's why a person, almost any preclear that you get when you first get hold of him, will have a blank area behind his back. That's because an enemy can step behind his back, so it's the dangerous area. How do you solve that? You just have two enemies step up behind the back, raise a spiked club, get ready to hit him on the head and say, "Oh, why wait a minute, wait a minute, that's — that's Bill! If we hit him, h000! What he'll do!" And have them run away.

LRH: No, that's all right. Now, you've got it in the wrong place.

And if he can't do that, you have a couple of enemies gathered together out there in the dark, and they've done something to Bill, the preclear, and found out afterwards it was him and they didn't understand that it was him, and they get very sad about it and kill themselves. Do that mock-up a few times and his fear of hidden influences starts going.

[to audience] I'll just do fancier auditing than you'll ever have to do.

But what else starts going if you keep up that little drill? The circuits, because what are the circuits sitting on? Although pain and unconsciousness is necessary to knock them in, it's the hidden datum that's there. What's the hidden influence? The hidden influence! You could say about this universe particularly, "This is the universe of the hidden influence." The hidden influence in this universe is a communication line which is not visible. And that's a — that is the hidden influence of this universe.

[to pc] Have two yeggs — you know, cosh: boys, gangsters .. .

So we get the hidden influence lying at the bottom of every thinking machine. If you wanted to build a wonderful thinking machine, you would have to build into it a hidden influence. That's right, if it were really going to perform automatically forevermore, you'd have to have it react when con-fronted with a certain kind of maybe. You know, any kind of a maybe is based on a hidden influence. "Was it there? Wasn't it there?"

PC:Yeah, I've got them up there.

You — there is a way to shoot computations on a case. By the way, this is the hottest way to shoot computations on a case I know. Is just ask them the last time they really weren't sure about a communication, or really sure about who it was, and they'll tell you.

LRH: All right, all right. Have them holding that out of place, that corner where it's out of place there?

Well, they weren't sure whether or not they had received a phone call. You say, "Fine, let's get the earlier time."

PC: Oh, yes.

"Oh, earlier? Yes, yes."

LRH: Now have them holding that out of place until they suddenly realize who they're doing this to, and have them both blow their brains out. Okay?

"Well, let's get an earlier time than that, when you weren't sure whether you had or had not received a communication," and so on.

PC: Yes. I've got them back there again, now

By the way, you can shoot them right on back down the track on this. Why? Oh, you pick up those hidden things one right after the other. You'd say, "Well the — gee, these maybes are quite interesting, and why is it that we suddenly pick this up clear on back to about three years of age?" Well, that's because you're going down the basic run of the middle of the circuit, see?

LRH: Those are back in place now again? Okay, can you get both corners now?

The unanswered question, that's what makes a bullpen, you know? Everything related to this unanswered question ever afterwards gets unanswered. For instance, if somebody told somebody a joke when he was five years of age and it went into one of these bullpens — maybe, maybe it was funny, or why was it funny, or maybe it wasn't funny; he doesn't know why — and you'll find that joke will actually flash to the surface during your auditing. Told to him when he was five; he's now forty.

PC: Yeah, near enough.

That's been parked in what you could call a bullpen. That, by the way, is technical nomenclature used in these big electronic brains. They have standard banks and bullpens. And the bullpen is where the data waits to be answered. And so these bullpens, however, are all based on this (in the human mind) on this hidden datum. There must be a hidden datum there of some sort. If a fellow could find the data, he'd be all right. So after this, he — this keeps going on this subject.

LRH: Oh, good. Now how about being over Tasmania? Just make your body comfortable there a little bit more, shove down a little bit more .. .

So when is the last time he wasn't sure he received a co — whether he did not — whether there was or wasn't a communication? That's the best way to state that. When was the last time he wasn't sure whether there was or was not a communication? In other words, a hidden communication line.

PC: Mm-hm.

The next thing is, is all right, you're still worried about that. Now what are you unwilling to be? See, communication — be — I mean it's the same — same breed of cat. What were you — it must be that if you are worried about a hidden communication in that bracket, then you must be unwilling to be something. Now, what are you unwilling to be?

LRH: . . . so your head — lay your head back. All right, that's right.

This, by the way, is how you would shoot a V's computations. You'd just shoot them out through the roof with a shotgun this way. "What were you unwilling to be at this point?" "Oh, I don't — I don't know, I don't know. Well you see, the data concerned my job. And — and — and I didn't ever know whether the boss did say that to Miss Finks or not. Maybe she did say it to him and maybe she didn't, or maybe it wasn't said to Mr. Finks. But Miss Finks thought it . . . I don't know, to tell you the truth! It is just a funny thing. It was all that morning there was this cold atmosphere around the office and somebody must have said something because a little later on some-body referred to the correspondence in a way that I knew somebody had said something."

PC: I'm more comfortable this way, actually.

Here we go on to a real full-blown Case V; see, this is wonderful. This is beautiful! This is actually about around Case VI en route to becoming Case VII.

LRH: Well, just so you can let go of your head. Can you let go of your head?

Here's a beautiful, "Did somebody tell a story about him or didn't they?" He doesn't know; he'll never know. What's he unwilling to be? That's the point. That's the sudden question you ask him. He was unaware — he couldn't figure out about the communication, so he was unwilling to be something. Well, he thinks this over for a long time, and he tells you he was unwilling to be fired. So you have him be a fired person. Just mock up a fired person facing a fired person and have him be this mock-up for a while and be pleased about being fired and what do you know, the bank blows on the subject of that type of data.

PC: Yep.

Shoot the circuit. What's he unwilling to be? And you'll find that there are two basic things he's unwilling to be: One is a ridiculed person and the other is a betrayed person — to have his anchor points pulled out and held, which is ridiculed, and pushed in and held, which is betrayed. Those are the two kinds of people that are undesirable, and all other categories really fall into those categories. Whatever pattern the anchor points make, that makes the kind of person. But it's betrayed and ridiculed are the basics on these circuits.

LRH: All right. Now let's be over Tasmania.

So the hidden datum, the hidden communication that he doesn't know about and he can't be sure about combines with these other two things, which is to say, the ridiculed person or the betrayed person. He's unwilling to be something. All right, that's the story. That's the basis of all these circuits and all these computations.

PC:Yes.

You find a circuit case going around; you can shoot them out with a phrase sometimes, but you'll shoot out every case in the bank if you want to fool around with this. Now, it's not necessary that you fool around with this, it's necessary that you understand that a V shouldn't be sitting there figuring. That V should be being. A V should be being, not figuring.

LRH: All right, let's be over the Amazon jungle.

And you let a preclear run himself, and he'll figure, figure, figure on every data that he runs across; every datum he encounters, he'll figure. What's happening in that case? He's running on a self-auditing circuit which is self-auditing some other auditing circuits, and he has a royal time. He gets a long ways, he does.

PC: Mm-hm.

E-Therapy, for instance, was a circuit auditing a flock of circuits. I under-stand there's somebody in Poughkeepsie, or something like that — Pesthouse, I think his name is — he has a technique which reverses E-Therapy. It puts the circuit — it puts the pc outside the pc as a circuit, auditing all the circuits of the pc, and getting them all to run automatically. This is very good, very good; it'll pr — a lot of business for the insane asylums. But we don't happen to want any business in the insane asylums; we're trying to close them up. I have to write him a letter and make him understand this more clearly. He evidently hasn't gotten the point. Maybe he has an uncle that's in charge for him, but I don't know. Anyway .. .

LRH: Let's be over Nelson's monument.

There you see the idiocy of most self-auditing, because it's a circuit which is based on a hidden datum trying to find a hidden datum. And brother, more hidden data will come up.

PC: I've got a monument but it's not Nelson's.

The problem of research was made peculiarly difficult because every time one turned around, he would find himself having to figure something which was just set up to figure in case there was something there. I mean, you'll find yourself going down more blind alleys, and winding up in more nowheres and wondering, "Now, why do I keep thinking about this?" Well, the reason you kept thinking about that, you run into a circuit. All right.

LRH: Well, that's all right. Now let's be over St. Paul's Cathedral.

The hidden datum; looking for the hidden datum. There must be a mysterious, hidden datum which would simply blow everything up. Yes, there was a hidden datum. What is the answer to this? That there is a hidden datum. Now, there's a lot of this data isn't circuit data. But we get this coincidence of that. And you must remember this when you're auditing a V, and I'm only wasting this much time to impress upon you the fact that you have to stay in communication with him, because every time you take your finger off of him, he'll figure, figure, figure, figure, figure, figure, figure, figure, figure.

PC: Mm-hm.

He'll come back to the next session — if you haven't done anything right with him, or something of the sort, if you haven't really got him crushed, by the time he comes back for the second session, what's he going to do? He'll have eighteen sheets of typewritten paper, all single-spaced on both sides and it will be the computations on his case.

LRH: Let's be over the Cape — Capetown. PC: Mm-hm.

And he's figured out "It's this. And it's his father's — his — no, it's his — well, it really is because it's school. I mean no, the head — no. That didn't have anything to ... Well, he's — he's got — and there was this aunt and he knows he's doing a life continuum on his dog. And his dog — and — and but just a — but of course, that couldn't have been it. And — and couldn't it be true that God and forgiveness really was at the bottom of all this anyhow? And — and ..." You know.

LRH: Let's be over the Indian Ocean.

That's a circuit, that's a circuit: "Got to find the datum; got to find the datum; got to find it, got to find it, got to — pant." Well, it ought to be there, I mean, "dumm-dumm."

PC: Mm, pretty rough.

Well, all right. Let's punctuate that right afterwards. What's insanity? Well, it's the same thing that starts these circuits. Have you ever seen a hid-den datum? The person is too often ridiculed and too often betrayed, and lying below the too often ridiculed and too often betrayed is the hidden datum type of thing in the MEST universe. And that is to say, the guy is going at sixty miles an hour and he turns the curve and he hits a log right across the road — crash! There's no log belongs there. That's a hidden datum, see? And after he gets knocked out, he comes to and he can't remember if the log was across the road or not. But he knows something happened, and then he wonders what he did.

LRH: Let's be over the North Pole.

For instance, I audited a pilot one day who had bailed out over Kiel, Germany. I got this kid out of his airplane and solved his case. He had for many years been trying to get out of an airplane. And every time you audited him, he'd sit there with his face all screwed up and he's pressed back by the wind. And he sat there for a little while, and I ran, oh, overt acts on a couple things and loosened him up, and all of a sudden said, "Were you ever in a crash?" Just routine, see, I knew something about his record. "Yeah, I was in a German prison camp for eight months, and so on." He'd bailed out. He never knew how he got out of the plane. So he spent all the time in this prison camp, figure, figure, figure, figure, figure, figure, figure. "How'd I get hit and how'd I get out of the plane?"

PC: Mm-hm.

And I put him through it several times, and all of a sudden he said, "You know, there it is. Yes!" And bing! all of his worries went up in smoke.

LRH: What you got?

He found out how he had reached forward and grabbed what lever to pull what canopy off. And found out how he had gotten his ripcord out. Whew!

PC:Well, I get an ice cap with a pole on it.

What's insanity? Well, that took a hidden datum — not know — plus what, plus what? Pain! Betrayal or ridicule plus pain. You'll find that a fellow who has fallen a considerable distance and has stopped suddenly without even completing the fall believes himself to have been ridiculed. He didn't fall to the ground, you understand. He hung by his suspenders from the tree branch or something of the sort. You see, right away that's funny. That's ridicule. That means an anchor point held out that he can't get back. All right, that's ridicule and the other is betrayal.

LRH: Okay. Now where is it located with re — in relation to you?

So what do we have as the basic on this, then? We've got just that point, just that one point we're looking at there — pain, hidden datum. Pain and the hidden datum.

PC:It's just below my feet.

Did you ever see somebody smash his finger? Did he dance around? When you ran him back through that incident, you found him pretty con-trolled all the way through it. Well, what happened to all his frenzy? He buried it. He buried that, and he buried it quick because that's insanity. He didn't know how he came to hit his finger. As a matter of fact, the moment he was dancing around, he hadn't really realized that he'd hit his finger. His mind had gone out on him with pain, shock, see — pang! And for an instant, he all of a sudden shakes his hand frenziedly, you see?

LRH: Just below your feet?

That frenzy or the control and suppression of so much frenzy that one is completely just frozen in place is insanity. The frenzy itself or the aspects of that frenzy which go down, of course, to apathy, which is itself, you might say, sort of a motionless frenzy; it feels awful bad, apathy does.

PC: Mm-hm.

Real apathy is kind of sticky, you know. It feels bad. You don't — don't monkey around if a preclear tells you he's running apathy; you just keep on running the apathy, and you get it on out because it really is bad. He could go way down. And if you suddenly betray him while he is feeling that apathetic by suddenly pushing in his anchor points or talking to him wrong or not being sympathetic or something of the sort, he can spin practically. But what is all that? That's just a mixture of pain, that's all. So you get pain plus a hidden datum, you've got insanity.

LRH: Now are you locating all these below your feet?

Every psycho you've got down here, then, has simply lost control during a moment of pain and is over a hidden datum. Then we look along — we look along his track and we find out people were mean to him and people betrayed him. Years and years later he spins on this; he goes insane.

PC: Mm-hm.

And we look for his wife's departure from him to have been the course and saw — cause of his insanity. Well, as a matter of fact, you audit his wife's departure or the departure of women in terms of mock-ups, or make him be a departing woman or something of the sort a few times, and he'll snap out of it. That isn't because you've hit the base on it.

LRH: All right, locate them now in front of your face. Now, let's be over Nelson's monument again.

And what do you know, the — this eating on sex. This, you know, this eating people, it's fascinating to bring that up. It sounds so non sequitur here. I've mentioned it to you before. Before they got the symbolized eating called sex, why, they ate bodies. A big punch in death — there's a tremendous outburst in death. It's quite interesting. Degradation, by the way, is having gone through the process, having been eaten.

PC: Yes.

Well, anyway that's — there's pain there; there's agony! And when you get this thing mixed up with sexual activity, it makes a very interesting case. No wonder Freud was so death on sex. Well, let's just — let's just not much worry about that. We find out that there was a lot of agony in this. We're not interested too much in that — his being eaten, even, because what do we find is the base of it?

LRH: Now let's be over the US Capitol building.

We find the MEST universe is the base of it. We find the sixth dynamic is all we're interested in with this character; that's all we're interested in — the sixth dynamic, we're not interested in the second.

PC:Yes.

We go back to this and we find out that he was in an automobile accident when he was ten, and he's still sitting in the automobile accident worrying about his mother. He's half-unconscious; he hears his mother speak out. He thinks he caused the accident, because his mother said, "You caused the accident." She said it to the other guy in the other car, see?

LRH: Now let's be over Sydney.

And she's — or he said something quite rationally; he was actually making some noise in the backseat about a half an hour before, and while they were on this trip, and his father said, "If you don't stop making that noise, you're making me so nervous, we'll have an accident." And they have an accident, and he says it's his fault, see?

PC: I'm stuck there some.

It's blame, his fault! He has to deny and thereafter distrust himself on such a deal, and that's an interesting computation, by the way. Denial of self; that is the most dangerous crime there is. You say, "I didn't do it" when you did, and you're done for.

LRH: Hm? What's the matter?

Now — or denial of your right to lie is also interesting. You'd think that it would be the other way around, but no, it happens to be that if you — if you preserve your right to lie at will, you're all right. But if you have to protest too honestly all the time, so on, you've agreed with the MEST universe, and that's all wrong. I'm not then advising lying as a matter of course, but you shouldn't be stuck with lying to a point where you deny that you have ever lied.

PC: I seem to be stuck there.

You start saying to yourself, "I am an honest man. I have never told a lie." Boy, that's the biggest lie of all, and that's an agreement with the MEST universe, so it's quite aberrative. All right.

LRH: You seem to be stuck there over Sydney?

Now, we'll go into this — go into this V, then, with our eyes, you might say, wide-open, where the V's are closed tight. What's the — what can you count he's sitting on? He's sitting on pain. He's got the lines shut to it. He is successfully dealing with it by cutting communication with his pain. There is a frenzy in this case, and he will descend rather rapidly down to Level VI if you do what? Run too much Admiration Processing on him. He'll go down to VI, then you process him on VI and he can handle it successfully and come back up to V.

PC:Yeah, no, I can't seem to get Sydney.

But theoretically, you could just run admiration, being pleased with things, and so forth, often enough where you would make this boy feel he was spinning. By the way, this V probably never will spin. But he'll start feeling like he is spinning if you open up too many lines indiscriminately on him.

LRH: Can't seem to get Sydney?

So we rather walk lightly on techniques which have to do with admiration and that sort of thing. I can give you some of the techniques to supplant this.

PC: Mm.

But let's ask, "Why is he a V, and what is he doing?" He is a V because his anchor points work in reverse. He doesn't know this and he isn't aware of it yet. He'll find it out in the course of auditing that when he sends his anchor points out, they come in, and when he sends his — pulls his anchor points in, they go out.

LRH: All right, get Melbourne.

How do you get this man to operate his anchor points, then? You tell him to pull in his anchor points, and sure enough, they'll go out. He'll all of a sudden will get a lighted area around him. Will it stay lighted very long? No! Because he's suffering from light starvation. That is just as good as food starvation. The body is suffering from light starvation.

PC:No. But we'll say it's there.

This person has led the kind of a life which has caused him to be inside when he wanted to be outside and has starved him for light. And as a consequence, he has followed the horrible cycle of the MEST universe.

LRH: You got Melbourne?

Now, let me give you this cycle in just a breath. The cycle is the thetan makes it — that's first — the thetan is capable of making it and makes it. And then he gets into associations with other thetans who also make it, and he interchanges whatever it is (light, in this case) with other thetans. He's down to 50 percent there, you see? Then he may get around to a thetan who makes most of it, and then he becomes dependent on that light.

PC:Yeah, there's houses there.

Or he gets into the MEST universe and starts to depend on the MEST universe for light, and then the MEST universe always follows this cycle: desires it, enforces it, inhibits it — DEI is the cycle of action. That goes along with start, change and stop. At 40.0, you have, you have desire, and then you have below that enforcement, and below that you have inhibit.

LRH: Mm?

So the fellow starts out by desiring, then has to have light, and then can't get light. Now, if you run GITA on somebody, Give and Take, you will find this: That on a lot of the quantities you present them with — if they're fairly low on this scale — a lot of the quantity you present them with, they will have to waste before they can consume them. They'll have to be sure that they are wasting them before they can consume them.

PC: Mm-hm.

This tells you about welfare states, for instance. They're no responsibility and so forth; why materials get wasted in them.

LRH: All right, get Brisbane.

Indigent people who know they can't have something, also know it doesn't exist. And you could present them with gallons and gallons of milk, and they would actually have to empty it into the gutter — gallons and gallons of it — before they'd become satisfied that that was milk and drink it.

PC: I seem to get Auckland.

Now, you start doing GITA with milk on people who have bad teeth, and the first thing you're going to find out is, is you're going to have to have them pouring this milk down the sink and throwing it away, and doing all sorts of things with this milk except drink it. And then the next thing you know, why, they get to a point where they could give it to a starving baby in the house if there were ten gallons of it. They can get a mock-up, then, of the baby drinking this thimbleful of milk. All right. And you solve that scarcity and all of a sudden, we find what? We find that the preclear can take a gallon of milk when it's the last gallon in the world and there are eight babies starving for milk in the house, and have him mock himself up drinking it. He wouldn't do that, but he's capable of making the mock-up by now. All right, so we have scarcity, and there is the cycle of scarcity, and everything is scarce for a V, mainly light.

LRH: All right, make it Auckland. Take a look at Auckland.

So, he will have to waste light before he will accept light. So every time he puts out his anchor points, he's so light-starved that they disappear on him. Of course they disappear, he's light-starved. His engram bank, his lines, everything else just go shlurp! and they soak up all that light, and do it so fast that you're not going to be able to turn light on around him enough, and you'll just open up these lines to undesirable things. So you just ask him to start wasting light. Just don't bother to tell him to start taking it in, just tell him to start wasting it.

PC:Yes, I see it.

He'll find out he can waste it after you push him a little bit. Yeah, he can get the idea of leaving the lights on in the house; leaving the lights on in London with nobody in London during daylight hours, and he can waste light.

LRH: Be right over Auckland.

You'll find something interesting will turn up. You'll find out that he's been abused by the sun. He's been in the tropics; he's been sunburned; he's had sunstroke; he's had heat stroke; something on that order so that he has had to fall away from light.

PC: Mm-hm.

Furthermore, he's had a profession which has kept him out of the light, and there's your V. He's got to waste light before he can get light. All right.

LRH: Now, be over the north end of Auckland.

He thinks himself incapable of manufacturing light, because every time he tries to throw light out he gets it in his — he gets the anchor points back in his face. Also, you see, this man has lost too much. But you say, "Lost too much? Lost too much what?"

PC: Mm-hm.

"Anchor points."

LRH: Now, be over the south end of Auckland.

"What are anchor points?"

PC: Mm-hm.

"Particles of light." You see, he's lost too much.

LRH: Be over the harbor.

Now, when somebody tried to take something away from him, he thought that they stretched his anchor points out. They didn't. When he reached for the object which was leaving, he pulled his anchor points in. The anchor points are in reverse, and they blanketed him. Now, this makes him also feel he's protecting himself and using these anchor points for armor. He does — he's under the delusion also that he can't make anchor points. He has to depend on something to make anchor points. Well, all right.

PC: Mm-hm.

How does this come about? How does this come about that the V gets light-starved, anyhow? I mean, how can a man be light-starved? How can a thetan be light-starved? It's a very funny thing. You'll find the body of a V is much more light-starved than the thetan. And you can actually process the individual with a process I'm going to give you without solving light starvation. But you must remember this in this particular case.

LRH: Be over Wellington.

In all of these cases, we have two techniques which will sound to your ear to be the same technique, but they're two distinctly different techniques. One is Matching Terminals and one is Double Terminals.

PC: Mm-hm.

Matching Terminals would be putting a person facing a person; the same person facing the same person. And Double Terminals would be getting two communication lines parallel. Do you see that difference? You — takes four people to get two communication lines. So double terminals means you mock up four of the same person or two of one person, two of another person, in such a way as to give you — as to give you four terminals with an identical line.

LRH: Now, be over Perth, Australia.

You mock up, for instance, four of the same woman facing — two pair facing two pair, or facing in from the corners. Or you mock up two wives, identical; two husbands, identical; facing the two wives. And what will appear? The communication line, the hidden lines, will appear because you've got a double terminal on a line. That's simple, isn't it?

PC: Mm, I've got something there.

I mean a double terminal would simply give you — I mean a matching terminal — matched terminals would simply give you two terminals facing each other with one line, and that line is invisible. That line is the hidden influence in this universe. The line is invisible. You can't see sound. You can't see photons. You can't see air. The vital things are hidden. You can see a light source and you can see it hit, but you can't see it en route unless there's dust in the air, or something like that.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Be over the school building at 163.. .

And that is a line and this is a universe of lines and these lines are hidden. So we do a double terminal. Let's say we take four women, all the same woman. We mock her up four times and have a pair facing a pair. See, we have two women facing two women side by side, making a square there, and we get the line between the two facing each other, so we get two lines.

PC: I've got it out in front of me. That's where you want me there? Mm-hm.

And this is the only way, you see, we'll get a double terminal on a communication line is to have four terminals. Therefore, when you are working with a V, particularly if you're going to ask him to do any operation with regard to terminals after he gets a little bit better on a mock-up so he can barely get one, you make him work not to get two mock-ups but to get four mock-ups. And the reason why you got to get him with four mock-ups is his trouble is no lines.

LRH: Mm-hm. Things getting clearer to you? Changing any?

And you will just mock him up — get him to mock up, mock up, mock up, mock up, mock up and even though you ask him to put a line in there, his perceptics are going to get worse and worse and worse. Why are they going to get worse? Because perception depends upon a line. And you're not rehabilitating lines, you're rehabilitating terminals when you're just telling him to get matching terminals. To get two terminals, you're just rehabilitating terminals. Well, you can — you could rehabilitate terminals on a II, but don't try it on a V. He could more easily get two parallel lines, which are feeling good, than he could get two terminals, two people facing each other.

PC: No, that's about the same.

And what his starvation is, as I said, his starvation is light. Now, how does it come about that he has light? Is this because people haven't communicated with him? That's one of the things, by the way. He's lived with — this person lived with somebody too long who has a long communication lag.

LRH: About the same, huh?

He'd say, "How are you this morning, dear?"

PC: Mm-hm.

"Well ... I don't know."

LRH: All right, be over the London Zoo.

"Well, what's wrong, dear?"

PC: Mm-hm.

"My head aches."

LRH: Did you catch yourself having to know where the zoo was before you could be over it?

See, it's ruined him, just like that.

PC: Yep.

Now, let me show you, that communication lag, you see, is a lack of flow. And he's gotten so he waits on flows and waits and waits, and all it does is key in. It isn't this person that's making him a V. It's what? It's the fact that this person keys in his communication lack earlier. Light is a primary communication medium — sound — and these are lines. And anything the V is blank on, anything he's black on, he hasn't got.

LRH: All right, be out in front of 163.

You'll say he can't feel a somatic? All right, there's an absence, a scarcity of pain in his case. You wouldn't think that was possible, do you? But remember that a thetan — remember that a thetan would rather be anything than be nothing. And he would rather feel anything than feel nothing. So that your anesthetized character inevitably has too little pain. He can't experience enough pain! There you get sadism, masochism. All right. Now, here's the pain figure.

PC: Yep.

Now, what about sound? This V goes around and he says, "Be quiet! You don't know what you're doing to me! You could tmm-mmm-umm!" You drop a pin a block away, you know, "Ohh, ohh!" Well, now, what's this V — what's this V really got? He's got a scarcity, a terrible scarcity of sound.

LRH: Be in the office at 163.

What's he want? You trace back in his life and you'll find out that there was a scarcity of sound: dishpans dropping, cars running into cars. You — just question him for a little while, and you'll find out that when he was a little kid he used to take playing cards and put them on the wheels of his bicycle so in order to make it go this way or that. And he had four horns on the head of the bicycle and he customarily tied two tin cans onto the back of the bicycle seat so they'd bang on the pavement as he rode along. Yes, sir. And then he had to be quiet and be quiet and be quiet, and he got starved for sound eventually.

PC: Mm-hm.

But you'll find much more pertinently that he's had to live by himself someplace and that way back on the track, he was in the great silence. He was out in space. That's why you get so many V's have a space-opera back-ground. Space, boy is it quiet! There's no air to carry sound. It's real quiet, real bad.

LRH: Be right inside the door of the schoolroom at 163.

Okay. The — we don't look to those things to solve this. We just mock up things going off. And we mock up things going off for — so other people can hear them. We're going to waste them, see. He isn't going to hear them. You're going to mock up beautiful sights for other people to see, not for him to look at. You're going to mock up all kinds of horrible agony for other people to experience, not for him to experience. And we'll just keep on doing this.

PC: Mm-hm.

Does he see the mock-ups? No. Are they appearing? Well, what do you know, they must be because they'll eventually solve the scarcity. And then we mock up sound: dishpans and falling, and buildings falling, and so forth. And you're going to have a picnic on this because it's obvious to you, for instance, running anybody who's been through heavy bombings, that they're highly antipathetic to sound, you know. Sound is bad stuff.

LRH: Okay. Be in front of my house.

It wasn't the sound, it was the silence. Those long silences. Have they gone? Have they gone? Well, I whzeewww! Boom! Oh, they didn't go yet. I mean, that's the idea, you see? It's the silences.

PC: Mm-hm.

You'd be surprised — you'd be surprised what a relief it is to turn loose with a whole battery of guns after you've been floating around in the mid-night black. I've seen crews practically empty the ammo boxes. You say, "What the hell are they shooting at!" "I said 'cease fire' five times! Number one gun is still going! What's the matter?" Boom! Boom! Boom!

LRH: All right. Be here just in front of the platform.

Two things: nice big, beautiful ribbons of light going out there and all that beautiful sound. And yet these guys — I suppose at home, baby drops a diaper on the floor or something, and they say, "Why don't you keep that kid quiet!" Now, that's interesting, isn't it? That's scarcity of sound.

PC: Mm-hm.

He's got scarcity of everything. Has he got a — has he got a somatic in his knee? Well, it's because he's scarce on knees. Bad eyesight? Scarce on light and scarce on eyes. Scarce on sights? Has he got a bad teeth? Scarcity of teeth. Has he got false teeth? Well, that's because there's just no teeth at all. Scarcity of teeth? How do you solve his worries about this subject? He could probably — make him grow new teeth, really, if you wanted to put your mind to it. He's got a somatic in his mouth, nothing on earth can get rid of this somatic in his mouth. Oh no? There's a scarcity on mouths.

LRH: What happens when you do that?

Now, you look any one of these things over, and it appears that it must be that there was — there's too much of this sort of thing, so he's shut it off, and therefore you are dealing, really, with an abundance. Oh, there isn't any such thing as an abundance with regard to a thetan. He just can't have too much of anything. He wants to be the mostest of anything he can, but after a while he'll get into despair about it, so he'll say — says it doesn't exist.

PC:Well, I just seem to be in front of the platform.

I'm going to draw you a picture — I'm going to draw you a picture here of the time mechanism that runs a body in this universe. This is the sun and this is the Earth and this is the moon. Now, if we were to mock up this with a V, we would probably think, "Well, we'll just match this terminal, and you know, put the V facing the V, and saying they're short on light." Oh, no. No, no. You're going to have to double-terminal this. And I draw you a picture of a double terminal. That's a double terminal, see? We've got four, essentially. But we've only got two moons, we've only got two Earths, and we've only got two suns. All right, now that's four of them; we've got two suns, two Earths and two moons.

LRH: Mm-hm. Now have you any chronic somatic?

Now, we're going down here, and we're going to put this little figure here, and this is going to be our V. It's very interesting, he's just exactly in the same place; he's on top of Earth in each one. So here you have the two upper circles there, the sun; the two lower circles, Earth; and those two big circles, the moon; and with the V standing here on Earth — standing here on Earth in each case.

PC:Yes, oh,.a beaut.

Now, I'm going to draw in the communication lines. Communication lines are from here to there, the force is against him and a communication line is from here to there, with the force against him. And the communication line is from here to here with the force against him, and with the force against him here.

LRH: Hm?

You think that was all the communication lines there were — weren't you? Huh? You — look at this, here's these communication lines of the Earth below the sun, and there's photons from the sun coming down hitting the V; and the moonlight from the moon hitting the V, here. You think that's all the communication lines.

PC: Every time I get to do any sort of thing my leg starts to jump around.

No, this chuckle-headed dope puts out beams. Actually, they're there, they show up in auditing. You don't have to worry about this but you'd won-der, "What are these things so solid for? What all — this guy — this is ..."

LRH: Did you just start this?

This guy has a somatic where he is pulling the sun. Now, why? I mean, well, it's just the fact that he actually has a loop up here around the sun. He's got a loop up here all the way around the sun, and he's got a loop over here all the way around the moon. And in here, he's got a loop here from himself clear around to Earth. And Earth's got a loop on him here, in each case.

PC:Do I just start it?

Now look at that complex battery of lines. Look at those lines. There's the gravity of Earth. There is the sun. And what do you know, there's the gravity of the sun operating upon him. There's the moon — the gravity of the moon operating . . . You understand this moon and this sun working together raise tremendous tides. As a matter of fact, if rocks weren't so heavy they could be picked up by this thing, really. And don't think that a living being and that a plant and so forth follows that sun around. And nobody ever measured this before. I mean, we've had a lot of dopes in the field of biology, I'm sorry to say, or back — botany.

LRH: Did it just start?

A lot — very, very dopey people. They must have been, or they would have discovered this with — before I had to dream up double-terminaling. This is fantastic that this — that everybody wonders, "What is this strange impulse in a little flower that makes it follow the sun around?" Well, it's sure a strange impulse! It's the gravity of the sun that pulls it around, of course. Isn't that simple? Honest, that's why a flower follows the sun.

PC:No, it hadn't started at all this time.

If you don't believe this, set up some preclear and have him double-terminal this way. And get him, particularly just as the sun disappears over the realm of the world for the night. Urn-hum. What's he do at that moment? He tries to pull the sun back, of course. You'll find in the accumulated centuries of the body's development that it has built in tremendous somatics, tremendous somatics, on the idea of gravity and pulling the sun and pulling the moon. And talk about hidden influences, you couldn't see any of these pulls at all, could you? And you talk about a real hidden influence, listen, when that moon went over the head in the dark of the moon, it exerted the force of gravity on the preclear but it didn't give him any admiration, and so it didn't run its own somatic out.

LRH: It hadn't started at all?

So you'd get the preclear mocking up the moon passing overhead in the dark of the moon. And he'll say, "You know, it pulls my face." He does; he's just getting — don't tell him what's going to happen, just have him mock these things up.

PC: Mm-hm. No, it hasn't always started, but after I've been at it for a little while .. .

And you take a V, if you can get him to mock these things up, you're going to have a picnic, a real picnic, because it practically pulls him to pieces!

LRH: Mm-hm.

Now, how do you get this mock-up? You just mock up Earth. Mock up the sun and mock up these, and keep putting them back, putting them back, putting them back, putting them into place, putting them into place, putting them into place.

PC:. . . it starts to .. .

But that isn't all there is to this Case V.

LRH: Did you have any feeling of being out here?

PC: Ah, well, I don't know.

LRH: Did you or didn't you? Yes or no?

PC: Well, I lost contact with this part.

LRH: Hm?

PC:Yes, I think I did.

LRH: All right. Did you have a feeling of having a lot of things with you while you were out?

PC: No.

LRH: You didn't have that feeling?

PC: No.

LRH: Oh. All right, put two thetans out in front of you saying to each other, "Now I have to abandon my home universe."

PC:A bit difficult, yes.

LRH: All right, keep putting them out there getting very pleased .. .

PC: Two thetans?

LRH: Yeah, just two circles of light, saying to each other — get them both saying it simultaneously — saying to each other, "Now I have to abandon my home universe."

PC:Well, these .. .

LRH: Just keep putting them out there saying that to each other. Hm?

PC: These light-toned little men like Wrigley's Chewing Gum.

LRH: Well, okay. Okay, keep them there and keep putting them there as lights .. .

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: . . . being pleased about abandoning the home universe.

PC: Shaking hands with each other, naturally?

LRH: Can you get them? Have you got them, each one of them, saying that to the other one?

PC:Well, I can know they're doing it, yes, mm-hm.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right, keep putting them there, and get that feeling of pleasure coming from each one of them about abandoning the home universe.

PC: I can't get any pleasure in them, but I can get a great deal of pleasure myself with the idea of it.

LRH: Oh, you can get a pleasure at the idea of it, huh?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, you get the pleasure out there from one of those to the other one.

PC:They keep sticking together.

LRH: Well, keep sticking them apart. I mean, just put new ones there all the time. Keep putting new ones there, put new ones there. And each time you put them there, have them both say, "Oh, how wonderful it is to abandon all of my facsimiles." This time have them say, "How wonderful it is to abandon all my facsimiles."

PC:Well, every time I put this bloke out here, this one runs into it.

LRH: All right, keep putting it out.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Just keep putting them out. What's the postulate they're giving to each other there?

PC: How happy they are that we're leaving the home universe.

LRH: Abandoning it! Not just leaving it!

PC: Abandoning it. Oh.

LRH: Abandoning it forever!

PC: Have I got to get these two out here before they can — I can get them to postulate, you know.

LRH: Oh, you get them, you can just get that postulate out there. Throw the postulate out there. Getting it now?

PC: Up to a moment ago I had quite a sad feeling.

LRH: Oh, no. Well, what do you know. All right, let's put it out there again. Put it out there, "How happy they are to abandon forever and never see again the home universe." Getting it now?

PC: No, I'm putting that postulate out there and I can get one over here reasonably well, but this other bloke — hard to control.

LRH: Well, just keep putting them out there until you can get them both there. Still get the feeling of sadness on it?

PC: Just a moment ago I got another one. It's silly, isn't it. I nearly found myself putting a feel — a postulate of how sad I was.

LRH: How happy you are.

PC: Hm. I'm actually getting a little steadier now.

LRH: Good. Now change it to, "Abandon my memory and never know who I am again."

Get them both out there. "How happy you are to abandon your personal memory and never know who you are again."

PC: These two thetans are saying that to each other?

LRH: Yeah.

PC: How happy they are?

LRH: Mm-hm. They're you!

PC: Oh!

LRH: They're you. How happy — how happy you are. Mock yourself up twice as a thetan, in other words.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Abandon all the facsimiles.

PC: This bloke on this side seems to do all the talking. Could I have this fellow doing it too?

LRH: Yes, sir, both of them. Get them feeling cheerful about it.

PC: Oh, yeah, they're all happy as Larry now.

LRH: Real happy now?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, how are we doing?

PC:Yeah, they're out there.

LRH: Doing better?

PC: Being quite as happy as they can be.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Just real happy.

LRH: That's you now?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Oh, I'm real happy, yeah.

LRH: You're real happy?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Never have any memory or anything?

PC: Facsimiles? No, I wouldn't.

LRH: No facsimiles?

PC: No.

LRH: I said no memories.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now get them having no personal identity anymore. How happy they are never to have a personal identity anymore.

PC: Mm. They're jumping for joy.

LRH: What's the matter?

PC: They're doing handstands — happiness.

LRH: Okay, okay. Now, now we got that. Let's be over Auckland again.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Be over the north end of Auckland.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: South end of Auckland.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Over Tasmania again.

PC: Mm-hm. I get an .. .

LRH: Hm?

PC: I get an island with a lot of .. .

LRH: Now, let's be real close to it.

PC: Well, all I seem to get is a forest.

LRH: You got a forest!

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Pick out a particular tree and be close to that.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: You got it?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now be a little distance away from that tree.

PC: About eight feet.

LRH: Okay. Now be over Hobart.

PC: Over Hobart. No, I'm figuring again.

LRH: Yes, sure, you're figuring. Let's be over Hobart.

PC: Well, I know I'm over Adelaide now.

LRH: All right, now let's be right here.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: I want to show you something. Your demonstration here so far and up to this moment, I have been using the word be, if you will notice. And if you have been recording this as a way to do it, I — you've missed the point.

We had a circuit working here like mad, didn't we?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let's see now how far is Hobart from the — let's see. And where are the forests? But yet you did have some little feeling, didn't you?

PC: Yes, very definitely. I lost consciousness of this...

LRH: Yeah, all right, all right.

[to audience] So we have a level of workability. We're actually not working a V Level Case here. The auditor that's been working this case and hasn't had him out of his body and working well should be shot anyway. Because this isn't a Case Level V I'm working with, it's about a III with a tape.

By the way, these tapes are terribly interesting. You'll run into somebody sometime or other, and everything they read you off — the postulates they read you off — they're reading. You want to find out about that. It's an automaticity gimmick that they have worked up. And it's one of the favorite ways of fixing up a circuit.

[to pc] You haven't got a tape, but a couple of times when you were mentioning these little men, you said, with great surprise, these little men with chewing gum, they were — I tell you to get a couple of thetans . . .

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: . . . and so on. Well, that's a specimen of automaticity. Well, that can go so far as everything the person is going to say appears on a little tape up here, you see, and he reads it off. And he says, "How are you, Joe?" See? That goes so far, but I'm just showing you a gradient scale of automaticity. We have a certain amount of automaticity, so we've got a circuit here. The second he says something like that, we say, "All right boy, we're going to be working on this basis: We got to know where we are before we can be there." Now, you've seen that circuit to some degree in action.

Now, let's alter this technique down to a very proper technique.

Okay, shut your eyes now.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now move St. Paul's Cathedral under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it to the right.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it to the left.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move Nelson's monument under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, move Tasmania under you.

PC: I've got something moving under me, anyway.

LRH: Yeah, all right. Now, move Hobart under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, now move Auckland under you.

PC: I've got the whole lot moving under me now; I've got the world.

LRH: Oh yeah? Well, how about easing back under now and getting out — picking out Auckland and moving it under you.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Phew! Okay, picking out Auckland and moving it under you.

PC:Well, I'll have to dispose of this around .. .

LRH: Hm? Dispose of it?

PC: Mm.

LRH: Well, just bring it up to your face. Move it up closer to you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Does it move further away when you do that?

PC: No, it comes up.

LRH: All right, just move it right on up close to you. Now move it up close to you to a point where you've got your .. .

PC: Got it on the end of my nose now.

LRH: All right, you've got — where's, where's Hobart?

PC: Maybe it's the point I've got my nose stuck to.

LRH: Okay. Move yourself much closer to Hobart.

PC:Well...

LRH: What's the matter?

PC: This is too silly for words. I've got a ball here with — with a Plasticine map on it. Like a .. .

LRH: Oh, where is that? Where is that?

PC: Well, I've just got it here.

LRH: Yeah, I know, but where is that globe?

PC: Where is it?

LRH: Yeah, where's the original of that globe you're using there?

PC: Oh, I don't know.

LRH: You got that? Have you got that at home?

PC: No.

LRH: Hm?

PC:Oh, wait, yes. I have too.

LRH: Yes, yes, you have too. Well, I didn't tell you to look it up on a globe. Look it up on this globe.

All right, now let's move over St. Paul's.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, move it right up close to you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, let's inspect the engraving on top of it, or whatever you find there on top of it. I don't know what's on top of it, but there might be a cross or something up there.

PC: When you said that, I — there was a cross there.

LRH: All right. Well, what is there there? Just look it over; I don't know.

PC:I've got a gold cross.

LRH: Okay, let's look it over.

PC:Well, it just seems to have rich writing on it; I don't know what the writing is.

LRH: All right.

PC: Rich writing.

LRH: Now let's move it much closer and see if you can get a little tactile on it.

PC: Nah.

LRH: Okay, okay. Now let's move Nelson's monument under you.

PC: Well, I got a whole swag of monuments then.

LRH: A whole bunch of them, huh?

PC: Mm. The most outstanding one was theone I've just seen in Edinburgh.

LRH: Well, let's move Nelson's monument under you. Now, let's move Piccadilly Circus under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, let's — let's put St. Paul's Cathedral a certain distance from Nelson's monument. Let's put a brace between them and block them apart.

PC:Well, I've got a — I've got someone riding a horse here. Is that Nelson's monument?

LRH: Well, put the — put it at a certain distance.

PC: Yes.

LRH: All right, now be over the school.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the school under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now move the top of the school — the edge of the ledge — directly under you so that you're sitting on it. Just move it up under you so you're sitting on it.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, let's inspect the view.

PC: Oh, I can see the street out here.

LRH: All right.

PC: Postbox.

LRH: Now, let's be the same height above the street, but move the middle of the street under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the middle of the street under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the middle of the street under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you. What you got?

PC: Well, I'm realizing that I've got to move over to the building to move the edge of the building under me.

LRH: You're realizing this now, huh?

PC:Well, I have been doing that.

LRH: Ho. All right, now let's get a tactile on the edge of the building.

PC: Mm-hm, I can imagine the feel of it.

LRH: All right, let's just feel it, though.

PC:I get very conscious of this chair as soon as Igo do that.

LRH: Mm! Mm-mm! Would it be very upsetting if you did feel it?

PC: No.

LRH: It wouldn't, huh? All right, move that edge of the building under you again, and this time just above the thing put a mock-up.

PC: Move the edge of the building under me?

LRH: Mm-hm. And put a mock-up just above the tactile and feel — the thing you're going to get a tactile of — and then feel the mock-up. In other words, mock up a tactile for it. Do that?

PC: Mock up someone on the edge of the building, have them feeling the building?

LRH: Well, oh, all right, if you want to do it that way.

PC: Is that what you want me to do?

LRH: Sure.

PC: Yeah, I can mock up someone standing there.

LRH: All right, now move the edge of the building under you again.

PC: Now I'm sitting on the edge of the building.

LRH: All right, now move that place they just touched under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now touch it.

PC: I just become very conscious of the chair again.

LRH: Uh-huh, direct communication. Okay. Now, move a lorry out here under you on the street.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got one?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Keep it moving on up the street.

PC: Keep it moving on up the street?

LRH: Well, keep moving it on up the street.

PC: I've got it moved under me; I can move it on...

LRH: Got it moving under you?

PC: I've got it under me here.

LRH: Huh?

PC: I've got it under me — under me here.

LRH: You're in the chair?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And it's under you here?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: No. You move the lorry under you in the street. Is the street under your chair?

PC: No, I've got to get out there to get over it.

LRH: That's what we're doing, isn't it? You've got to get out there to get over it.

PC: All right. I've got the street back under me.

LRH: Oh, you've got that, now?

PC: Yeah, I've got the lorry, too.

LRH: You've got the lorry? Huh? All right, now, let's just get that lorry moving along. Let's just check up on this conductor.

PC: Oh, I had an ordinary lorry. I call a lorry one that carts shingles.

LRH: Okay.

PC: I check up on the driver?

LRH: Mm-hm. Check up on the driver. Now move the driver's head just in front of yours.

PC: Wait a minute. I've got this all tangled up again. The street .. .

LRH: Just take ahold of his head and move it in front of yours. Just move his head in front of you.

PC: I've got his head up here.

LRH: That's all right.

PC: Mm-hm. Head. God, what a queer looking head!

LRH: You're in this chair?

PC: Yep.

LRH: Huh?

PC: Yep.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Well, you have a lovely mock-up sitting there. There's an automatic mock-up; it's wonderful, wonderful!

That's real great! You don't have to feel anything, you see, when you do that. Now, look-a-here, you just move out there and grab ahold of the lorry, move it under you. Just move that lorry.

PC: Bring the lorry in here and move it under me here?

LRH: No, sir! You leave that lorry right where ii is and move it under you.

PC:All right, I'm — yes, I've got a lorry moving out from under me and I'm out in the street moving it under me.

LRH: Okay, all right. Now move the inside of the lorry around.

PC: Now, I jump back here again each time.

LRH: Oh, uh-huh. All right, now reach out and grab the inside of a lorry .. .

PC: Yup.

LRH: . . . and move that around you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that moved around you?

PC: Yep.

LRH: Look at the signs.

PC: The sides?

LRH: Signs, posters, advertisements.

PC: Mickey Mouse came into my mind for some reason or other.

LRH: Hm. How's the inside of this lorry look? Here's the bus, look. Look, is the bus in motion?

PC: Now, I've got ahold of it and I'm moving it around me.

LRH: Now where are you?

PC:I'm out in the street.

LRH: You're out in the street moving it around you. Well, you grab ahold of a real bus; they don't bite. Now the one; grab ahold of that bus, move it under you. Just hold it under you and let it go on down the street.

PC: The more I try to do that, the more I become conscious of this chair.

LRH: Oh? Oh? All right, push that lorry away from you.

PC: Yep.

LRH: What happens when you do that?

PC:I can push it up the street.

LRH: Push it away harder.

PC: It keeps coming back again.

LRH: No! Push it away real hard!

PC: Yep.

LRH: Where are you?

PC: As soon as you said that, I'm back in the chair.

LRH: Okay. Now push it away real hard now, and keep pushing it away. Now fight it. Shove it off of you. Move it away from you! Got it?

PC: Let's see, I sort of swing out there and then here and .. .

LRH: Mm-hm, mm-hm. All right, now let's move it away from you. But I tell you what you do. Let's move — let's move the street corner out here as far away from you as you can get. Just give it a hard shove and move it way away from you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: You got it? What happened?

PC: Well, I'm moving it — the street corner further down the street.

LRH: Moving it further down the street?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Uh-huh. Is it detached from the sidewalk or anything?

PC: Yeah, the whole thing is sort of gone away from me. I pushed it away from me.

LRH: Oh, you did push it away from you that time?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Well, good! Grab ahold of it and move it under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: You got it now?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, how's that? More satisfactory?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, I want you, without any orders from me, to move yourself over each one of the five continents. And everybody is going to be very quiet and we'll make sure nobody eats your body up. And just move yourself over each one of the five continents, move yourself down close, take a look and then move yourself over a couple of oceans, and then move back here with no further communication to you, via this body. Okay?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, let's do that.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: You back?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, what happened?

PC:Well, I visualized each of the places in turn, and .. .

LRH: You visualized them, or did you move them under you?

PC: Well, they were under me — under me. I went down to them each time.

LRH: Oh, you did. Okay.

PC: Mm-hm. And I just came up again. Had a feeling of coming up.

LRH: What did you — what did you see?

PC:Well, in each case I'd seen a scene of a particular place I was in. One was Iceland with a scene of ice; that was an easy one.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: China — a Chinese scene. And in France.

LRH: Were they in motion? What was your feeling of reality about these scenes?

PC:Oh, very, very slight.

LRH: Hm?

PC: Very slight.

LRH: Very slight?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Your reality is very slight on these things?

PC:Very slight, yes.

LRH: Was it better than it had been before?

PC:Oh, yes, definitely yes. I had a feeling of lifting up and down through them.

LRH: Good, good, good. All right. Now this time why don't you — why don't you — you know, there's a number of islands here...

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: . . . in the British Isles.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: And why don't you just sit there and move now to the — way you do it, you know — just move these — move Ireland under you and one by one, every time you see an island — every time you see an island or a new one you'd like to move under you, you just move that one under you. And just go rapidly in sequence and take a close-up look at each one of these.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: And we won't tell the transport companies what we're doing here, because they lose money on this. Okay, nobody will disturb you here or make any noise in the room.

PC: Hm. These places or something seems to move under me, but I can't seem to get down to it.

LRH: Oh, having a rough time.

PC: Mm.

LRH: Well, did it occur to you to move it up to you?

PC:No, it didn't.

LRH: Okay, let's go on the same tour again, and each time now let's move it up to you.

PC: We've gone haywire here.

LRH: What's happened?

PC: Well, it seems when I got to Germany I seem to be sitting on the boat. And on the boat there's a German — kinda got this — memories of childhood ideas, too — and there's a German with one of those hats with a spike on the top. He's leaning over the front with a woman, both in old-fashioned dress.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right, what happened when you went over these islands?

PC:Well, there seemed to be scenes come in to my mind. I seemed to see scenes very similar to what one would see in the cinema.

LRH: Mm-hm. Did you move these .. .

PC: One cinema I've seen did come in actually.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right, did you move these islands under you?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Each time?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Did you move yourself down to them?

PC: Yes.

LRH: Back away?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: What was the change in the island?

PC:Well, I just seemed to land in a certain particular part of the town that I cared to move under. I moved a town, I moved France under me.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: And I seemed to go down to a particular part of a town of France.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: And this particular instance, a scene — a cinema scene came in.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Hm.

LRH: All right.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, now let's move — let's move that town under you again.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that under you?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now let's take this cinema scene and pin it to some of the — or move it a certain distance away from some of the furniture around that town.

PC: I've got a whole lot of chimney tops underneath me.

LRH: Oh, all right. Now take that cinema scene and put it alongside of one of these chimney tops.

PC:I've plugged it down one, little bit.

LRH: Okay.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, now move that town away from you several miles.

PC: It's gone, anyway. Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, now take the facsimile of what you've just seen .. .

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: . . . and what — are you near anything now?

PC:No, I've just got a facsimile there.

LRH: You've got a facsimile there? PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Well, move this monument you've been calling Nelson's monument near you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now put this on the horse's nose.

PC: In the form of a piece of rig? Mm-hm.

LRH: Mm-hm. Got that facsimile on his nose?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move St. Paul's Cathedral under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got it?

PC: Yep.

LRH: Now take the facsimile of having put that on the horse's nose. You got that picture?

PC: I've got the picture with the facsimile — I've got the horse with the facsimile wrapped around his nose — yes.

LRH: The facsimile of it, you know.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: This is a picture of it. All right, now put that on the cross at St. Paul's.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, move 163 Holland Park under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the chair under you.

PC: Move the chair under me? The chair?

LRH: Yeah, the chair on the platform under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, sit down there.

PC:Yeah, I'm fine there.

LRH: Hm?

PC: Yes.

LRH: Okay. Now do you see any differentiation on facsimiles and anything else?

PC: Can I differentiate between the facsimiles and .. .

LRH: Yeah, the facsimile you're making of something, and the picture you get of something when you move it under you. You get the difference between these two things?

PC: Yes. Mm-hm.

LRH: There's a difference between the .. .

PC:There definitely is!

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay. Okay, that's all.

PC:Good.

LRH: Well, just tell me, did you — do you have any better sense of being out this time during this drill?

PC:Yes, definitely. I felt the sense of movement.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Moving out away from the chair.

LRH: Mm-hm. Okay, okay. Let's get another run at this.