This is December the 4th, says here, 1953, first morning lecture.

This is December the 4th, says here, 1953, first morning lecture.

This morning we're going to take up the plan of SOP 8-C. We're also going to take up some other things.

This morning we're going to take up the plan of SOP 8-C. We're also going to take up some other things.

I want to give you the plan of SOP 8-C so you'll have some vague idea of what you're doing. I think this might be handy in your work.

I want to give you the plan of SOP 8-C so you'll have some vague idea of what you're doing. I think this might be handy in your work.

SOP 8-C has to do with the state of beingness and the state of havingness. It is designed and planned to increase the state of knowingness of the individual; that's its design. So therefore, its steps consist of the three parts of the MEST universe and the remedy thereof.

SOP 8-C has to do with the state of beingness and the state of havingness. It is designed and planned to increase the state of knowingness of the individual; that's its design. So therefore, its steps consist of the three parts of the MEST universe and the remedy thereof.

Now, if you know 8008 — which by the way, has not even vaguely become outdated; it's probably the most modern stuff we have, that and 16-G — what we're doing right here is putting together a plan so you can use, with greater effectiveness, the materials which are contained in 8-8008 and 16-G.

Now, if you know 8008 — which by the way, has not even vaguely become outdated; it's probably the most modern stuff we have, that and 16-G — what we're doing right here is putting together a plan so you can use, with greater effectiveness, the materials which are contained in 8-8008 and 16-G.

The plan then, follows out the three component parts of the mest universe: space, time and energy. Of course, energy goes into matter, and so we have space, time and energy as the three component parts.

The plan then, follows out the three component parts of the mest universe: space, time and energy. Of course, energy goes into matter, and so we have space, time and energy as the three component parts.

Now, this in human experience becomes, as you will find in 8008 (of which, by the way, we have lots of copies now — they're British copies, we'll get out an American edition shortly), we have in human experience be as the equivalent of space — be and space, same thing; do and energy, same thing; have and time, same thing. In other words, an object and time, same thing.

Now, this in human experience becomes, as you will find in 8008 (of which, by the way, we have lots of copies now — they're British copies, we'll get out an American edition shortly), we have in human experience be as the equivalent of space — be and space, same thing; do and energy, same thing; have and time, same thing. In other words, an object and time, same thing.

These are similarities. You can then take — this is, by the way, quite a triumph. I mean, people have been trying to do this ... A lot of you use this material without too much background knowledge of what man has known about this. And his biggest stumbling block was that he was evaluating space in terms of time and energy, and energy in terms of space and time, and time in terms of space and energy. And he was just chasing his tail round and round in a small cage. And therefore he was getting absolutely noplace in the solution of his own difficulties.

These are similarities. You can then take — this is, by the way, quite a triumph. I mean, people have been trying to do this ... A lot of you use this material without too much background knowledge of what man has known about this. And his biggest stumbling block was that he was evaluating space in terms of time and energy, and energy in terms of space and time, and time in terms of space and energy. And he was just chasing his tail round and round in a small cage. And therefore he was getting absolutely noplace in the solution of his own difficulties.

Furthermore, he conceived himself to be a body and made care of the body his biggest cult. And he would have to do this if he was in the error that all there was, was simply space, time and energy. If he thinks all there is, is space, time and energy, he's in trouble, because he's omitted the thing that makes space and time and energy. And therefore, he claws around and bows down to obscene idols in an effort to solve his problem. That's real weird — I mean, he's been very blind. And his blindness consisted of using zero as an absolute. You know, a zero was an absolute — zero is not an absolute.

Furthermore, he conceived himself to be a body and made care of the body his biggest cult. And he would have to do this if he was in the error that all there was, was simply space, time and energy. If he thinks all there is, is space, time and energy, he's in trouble, because he's omitted the thing that makes space and time and energy. And therefore, he claws around and bows down to obscene idols in an effort to solve his problem. That's real weird — I mean, he's been very blind. And his blindness consisted of using zero as an absolute. You know, a zero was an absolute — zero is not an absolute.

Therefore, when you use something that you're using as an absolute in any equation — everywhere, hit or miss — you're introducing a hidden variable; and zero is a hidden variable in every mathematics. So therefore, his mathematics would snap back at him. It's not an absolute. There's as many kinds of zero as there are kinds of cereal on TV.

Therefore, when you use something that you're using as an absolute in any equation — everywhere, hit or miss — you're introducing a hidden variable; and zero is a hidden variable in every mathematics. So therefore, his mathematics would snap back at him. It's not an absolute. There's as many kinds of zero as there are kinds of cereal on TV.

Now, the next thing that he couldn't do was evaluate human experience — and didn't do, rather — what he couldn't do was evaluate human experience in terms of space and time and energy.

Now, the next thing that he couldn't do was evaluate human experience — and didn't do, rather — what he couldn't do was evaluate human experience in terms of space and time and energy.

So let's look at that immediate gain, and we find out that if we evaluate space in terms of beingness, energy in terms of doingness and time in terms of havingness, we can relate experience to the physical universe, and thus form a cross-understanding between these two things. We can understand experience, and we can understand the physical universe and their interrelationship, so that the physical universe is not then much of a puzzle. It becomes a simple thing.

So let's look at that immediate gain, and we find out that if we evaluate space in terms of beingness, energy in terms of doingness and time in terms of havingness, we can relate experience to the physical universe, and thus form a cross-understanding between these two things. We can understand experience, and we can understand the physical universe and their interrelationship, so that the physical universe is not then much of a puzzle. It becomes a simple thing.

Now, although — although these things are of considerable interest to a physicist, they do not belong in the field of physics. We are actually operating slightly under false colors when we say we are operating in the field of science. In order to say we are operating in the field of science, we immediately have to define science. And we find that we come up with a Latin definition for science — the earliest definition for science — and not what man understands today to be science.

Now, although — although these things are of considerable interest to a physicist, they do not belong in the field of physics. We are actually operating slightly under false colors when we say we are operating in the field of science. In order to say we are operating in the field of science, we immediately have to define science. And we find that we come up with a Latin definition for science — the earliest definition for science — and not what man understands today to be science.

Man understands, today, science to be an automaticity. The methods of "getting it to do something for you." And that's about the way he goes at it. And he gathers data together in vast mounds, and then sees all these data in this mound are pink, and all these data in this mound are green, so we have two different sciences. Never occurs to him that pink and green data might belong side by side, but that another green datum has no business in the pile at all; because who said they were pink and who said they were green? Well, nobody ever was bold enough to. So, we have this experience.

Man understands, today, science to be an automaticity. The methods of "getting it to do something for you." And that's about the way he goes at it. And he gathers data together in vast mounds, and then sees all these data in this mound are pink, and all these data in this mound are green, so we have two different sciences. Never occurs to him that pink and green data might belong side by side, but that another green datum has no business in the pile at all; because who said they were pink and who said they were green? Well, nobody ever was bold enough to. So, we have this experience.

Now, we are in the physical universe. We are using physical universe language. And it happens to be a fact that in order to escape from something utterly and to render it null and void, or even to use it, one must be willing to be it, do with it, and have it. And that is escape.

Now, we are in the physical universe. We are using physical universe language. And it happens to be a fact that in order to escape from something utterly and to render it null and void, or even to use it, one must be willing to be it, do with it, and have it. And that is escape.

If a saber-toothed tiger stops you on a path, the wrong thing to do — you, a thetan; now we're not talking about a body in limitation, we're talking about a thetan — the wrong thing to do is turn and run. Particularly if you as a thetan have something — like a body. Wrong thing to do is turn and run. You want to protect the body? Be the saber-toothed tiger and change your mind.

If a saber-toothed tiger stops you on a path, the wrong thing to do — you, a thetan; now we're not talking about a body in limitation, we're talking about a thetan — the wrong thing to do is turn and run. Particularly if you as a thetan have something — like a body. Wrong thing to do is turn and run. You want to protect the body? Be the saber-toothed tiger and change your mind.

If a thug walks up to you, a thetan packing a body around in the street, the wrong thing to do is to suddenly block aside the gun and punch him in the solar plexus. Let me assure you that the complexities which result from this are terrific. One of the least things that will happen to you is, if you are fortunate enough to knock him out. . . And men are rather dangerous beasts — it's — a lion out in the middle of the Sahara Desert, if he saw one of our high-school girls, would turn and run screaming, believe me. Man is a very dangerous beast. That's a fact, he would! I mean, it's incredible maybe, but it's true. He's had experience — like some of you, perhaps.

If a thug walks up to you, a thetan packing a body around in the street, the wrong thing to do is to suddenly block aside the gun and punch him in the solar plexus. Let me assure you that the complexities which result from this are terrific. One of the least things that will happen to you is, if you are fortunate enough to knock him out. . . And men are rather dangerous beasts — it's — a lion out in the middle of the Sahara Desert, if he saw one of our high-school girls, would turn and run screaming, believe me. Man is a very dangerous beast. That's a fact, he would! I mean, it's incredible maybe, but it's true. He's had experience — like some of you, perhaps.

Anyway, we have the problem there — the very least that'd happen to you, you'd be in court explaining to the judge why you had had the fellow arrested. And then this would be dragged on for — well, what's justice in the United States today? Oh, eight, fifteen years the trial would go on, you going down every couple of weeks finding it had been postponed. You know, I mean, thirty, fifty years later, you're still saying, "What the hell did I ever hit him for? I mean, it's — he's — it's done nothing but absorb my time ever since. And furthermore, I must have an implantation because I feel like now I ought to go to jail" — overt-motivator. And then, "I didn't know that when I knocked him out, why, he had a wife and children and they starved to death during the first three weeks he was held before he could get bond." And — oh, here we go!

Anyway, we have the problem there — the very least that'd happen to you, you'd be in court explaining to the judge why you had had the fellow arrested. And then this would be dragged on for — well, what's justice in the United States today? Oh, eight, fifteen years the trial would go on, you going down every couple of weeks finding it had been postponed. You know, I mean, thirty, fifty years later, you're still saying, "What the hell did I ever hit him for? I mean, it's — he's — it's done nothing but absorb my time ever since. And furthermore, I must have an implantation because I feel like now I ought to go to jail" — overt-motivator. And then, "I didn't know that when I knocked him out, why, he had a wife and children and they starved to death during the first three weeks he was held before he could get bond." And — oh, here we go!

No, the thing to do is just to be the thug, you see, and say, "You know, there are other people to hold up in this town. Goodbye, sir," and he walks off. That's a very, very excellent way to do it.

No, the thing to do is just to be the thug, you see, and say, "You know, there are other people to hold up in this town. Goodbye, sir," and he walks off. That's a very, very excellent way to do it.

The only way you can ever get into trouble with anything is resist it. You can't get into really any real trouble by desiring something — as a thetan, see.

The only way you can ever get into trouble with anything is resist it. You can't get into really any real trouble by desiring something — as a thetan, see.

So man makes resistance the greatest of virtues, and desire the most horrible of sins. He has met a barrier someplace, as we will go into in a moment, and reversed his postulates. All right, enough of the sarcasm.

So man makes resistance the greatest of virtues, and desire the most horrible of sins. He has met a barrier someplace, as we will go into in a moment, and reversed his postulates. All right, enough of the sarcasm.

The point I'm trying to make here is that be, have and do are experience equivalents.

The point I'm trying to make here is that be, have and do are experience equivalents.

Now we say, "the preclear has a shortage of space — he's very scarce — his space .. ." He says, "Space?" and you get him to mock up a little bit of space, and he goes unconscious. Well, he's just fresh out of space.

Now we say, "the preclear has a shortage of space — he's very scarce — his space .. ." He says, "Space?" and you get him to mock up a little bit of space, and he goes unconscious. Well, he's just fresh out of space.

Now, what do we do here? Well, we can give him some space until he can tolerate space. Another preclear — second he starts to be back of his head, why, all the space there is, is falling in on him, and all the barriers there are around him are suddenly grabbing at him, and he has a sensation of things getting longer or shorter or taller, and he's something like a drunk, you know — like he's just had a couple of drinks. Everything goes distorted and he, of course, goes back in the body, which is — body keeping it all straight, he'll stick with that. But he doesn't exteriorize again easily. Not until you've remedied his beingness.

Now, what do we do here? Well, we can give him some space until he can tolerate space. Another preclear — second he starts to be back of his head, why, all the space there is, is falling in on him, and all the barriers there are around him are suddenly grabbing at him, and he has a sensation of things getting longer or shorter or taller, and he's something like a drunk, you know — like he's just had a couple of drinks. Everything goes distorted and he, of course, goes back in the body, which is — body keeping it all straight, he'll stick with that. But he doesn't exteriorize again easily. Not until you've remedied his beingness.

What tells you — what does this tell you about the man himself in terms of behavior and character? This tells you that he can't be anything. He will be then picking up the shabbiest scraps of things to be.

What tells you — what does this tell you about the man himself in terms of behavior and character? This tells you that he can't be anything. He will be then picking up the shabbiest scraps of things to be.

He'll take some weird part of his name — well, let's say his name was "Drip." "George Q. Drip." And colloquially, drip means a bum, so he'll have to be a bum. He has lost his choice, you see. He has no space, so therefore he's lost his choice of beingness. He's — he'll probably have lots of colds. And when you process him, he will blow nothing but grief charges, and you'll — and he won't quite blow them either. He'll just go sort of trickle, trickle and heave a long sigh in between. And you say, "You know, if I could just get that grief charge . . ."What grief charge? There isn't any grief charge sitting there — the fellow's name is "Drip."

He'll take some weird part of his name — well, let's say his name was "Drip." "George Q. Drip." And colloquially, drip means a bum, so he'll have to be a bum. He has lost his choice, you see. He has no space, so therefore he's lost his choice of beingness. He's — he'll probably have lots of colds. And when you process him, he will blow nothing but grief charges, and you'll — and he won't quite blow them either. He'll just go sort of trickle, trickle and heave a long sigh in between. And you say, "You know, if I could just get that grief charge . . ."What grief charge? There isn't any grief charge sitting there — the fellow's name is "Drip."

Now, the First Unit, we had classifications of names. Names are quite important. We had somebody in the First Unit that took something on the order of about six weeks to figure out his own name, and it was the plainest name you ever wanted to figure out. And he finally figured out his name. There was another one who figured out his name, which was just as plain, about five or six weeks after he was asked. And some of them figured out their name immediately and went right on dramatizing it.

Now, the First Unit, we had classifications of names. Names are quite important. We had somebody in the First Unit that took something on the order of about six weeks to figure out his own name, and it was the plainest name you ever wanted to figure out. And he finally figured out his name. There was another one who figured out his name, which was just as plain, about five or six weeks after he was asked. And some of them figured out their name immediately and went right on dramatizing it.

When they're short of space they cannot be, so they get into — easily — into an enforced beingness. What's this mean? Means somebody comes along and says, "You stand here." He will. Well, that isn't his reason — he doesn't want to stand there; it's just somebody tells him to stand there, so he does.

When they're short of space they cannot be, so they get into — easily — into an enforced beingness. What's this mean? Means somebody comes along and says, "You stand here." He will. Well, that isn't his reason — he doesn't want to stand there; it's just somebody tells him to stand there, so he does.

The United States government says we are now going to have Universal Milit. You know, they are conceited down there in Washington; they're conceited. They think they can pass a law which will enforce Universal Military Training. And you know what? I was down at a recruiting station the other day and went — I'll just tell you why — I just flipped through their files and I didn't find a single Martian; they haven't recruited one. (audience laughter) Universal Military Training, my hat! I get put out about things once in a while, you know.

The United States government says we are now going to have Universal Milit. You know, they are conceited down there in Washington; they're conceited. They think they can pass a law which will enforce Universal Military Training. And you know what? I was down at a recruiting station the other day and went — I'll just tell you why — I just flipped through their files and I didn't find a single Martian; they haven't recruited one. (audience laughter) Universal Military Training, my hat! I get put out about things once in a while, you know.

But the point is here, that we have a range of experience matched up with a range of obvious manifestations. Space is an obvious manifestation to all of us. Well, we look any deeper than beingness for space, and we've gone beyond significance. The deepest significance space has in terms of experience is beingness.

But the point is here, that we have a range of experience matched up with a range of obvious manifestations. Space is an obvious manifestation to all of us. Well, we look any deeper than beingness for space, and we've gone beyond significance. The deepest significance space has in terms of experience is beingness.

The deepest significance energy has in terms of experience is doingness. And the deepest significance time has — the deepest significance time has — in terms of human experience, is havingness. And there are no significances beyond these. There are combinations of these significances, and this is possible because the thetan potentially can create such a universe. And he has his hand in creating this one. So we see what his intentions are in creating a universe. He has space so he can be, he has energy so he can do, and he has time so that he can have. So we're looking for his basic intentions rather than significance.

The deepest significance energy has in terms of experience is doingness. And the deepest significance time has — the deepest significance time has — in terms of human experience, is havingness. And there are no significances beyond these. There are combinations of these significances, and this is possible because the thetan potentially can create such a universe. And he has his hand in creating this one. So we see what his intentions are in creating a universe. He has space so he can be, he has energy so he can do, and he has time so that he can have. So we're looking for his basic intentions rather than significance.

Now, we start searching any deeper into this and we just get into the black barriers. And all the significance there is in a black barrier is, "What is the significance of this?" That's what a black barrier says.

Now, we start searching any deeper into this and we just get into the black barriers. And all the significance there is in a black barrier is, "What is the significance of this?" That's what a black barrier says.

SOP 8-C is divided by steps into these categories. The first three steps concern themselves with beingness. The remaining four steps concern themselves with havingness. And introduced into all steps is doingness. Doingness itself, as a step, is not SOP 8-C. It's SOP 80 — from Theta Clear to Operating Thetan. And SOP 80 picks up when SOP 8-C has been run but completely and thoroughly. And all SOP 80 does is exercise doingness. And the reason it's selected out like that is there's so many things a thetan can do. He can do anything that a body can do and more — much more. And as a result, if we started to pour all the things the thetan could do into SOP 8-C, you would be confused instead of completely informed, as you are right now. All right.

SOP 8-C is divided by steps into these categories. The first three steps concern themselves with beingness. The remaining four steps concern themselves with havingness. And introduced into all steps is doingness. Doingness itself, as a step, is not SOP 8-C. It's SOP 80 — from Theta Clear to Operating Thetan. And SOP 80 picks up when SOP 8-C has been run but completely and thoroughly. And all SOP 80 does is exercise doingness. And the reason it's selected out like that is there's so many things a thetan can do. He can do anything that a body can do and more — much more. And as a result, if we started to pour all the things the thetan could do into SOP 8-C, you would be confused instead of completely informed, as you are right now. All right.

The first three steps of SOP 8-C concern themselves with beingness. From — Step IV, V, VI, and VII concern themselves with havingness. As an example — as an example — Give and Take Processing and many other kinds, such as Expanded GITA and so on, on Step IV, are bluntly, completely, having it; making it possible to have. The name of this step is "Havingness" instead of Give and Take and the rest of it. The basic name of it is just "Havingness." So, therefore, it immediately resolves itself into time, doesn't it?

The first three steps of SOP 8-C concern themselves with beingness. From — Step IV, V, VI, and VII concern themselves with havingness. As an example — as an example — Give and Take Processing and many other kinds, such as Expanded GITA and so on, on Step IV, are bluntly, completely, having it; making it possible to have. The name of this step is "Havingness" instead of Give and Take and the rest of it. The basic name of it is just "Havingness." So, therefore, it immediately resolves itself into time, doesn't it?

So, we get into Step V, and we get havingness of another kind. In Step IV we merely have havingness as a commodity, just plain havingness. And we get into Step V, we have havingness of another variety; it is the havingness of blackness, when we go into that step.

So, we get into Step V, and we get havingness of another kind. In Step IV we merely have havingness as a commodity, just plain havingness. And we get into Step V, we have havingness of another variety; it is the havingness of blackness, when we go into that step.

We go into VI, and we have what? Havingness of symbols. And here, we say, "This person is a Step VI," we mean this person is so bogged down that a symbol is made out of sheet steel, cast iron and so on. The symbol is the thing at Step VI. So that the symbol itself has become havingness, and this in itself, to him, is thinkingness. All right.

We go into VI, and we have what? Havingness of symbols. And here, we say, "This person is a Step VI," we mean this person is so bogged down that a symbol is made out of sheet steel, cast iron and so on. The symbol is the thing at Step VI. So that the symbol itself has become havingness, and this in itself, to him, is thinkingness. All right.

Let's go to Step VII, and what do we have there? Well, Step VII is — please, let's see if he can at least have the wall in this room. See, that's sort of a last resort.

Let's go to Step VII, and what do we have there? Well, Step VII is — please, let's see if he can at least have the wall in this room. See, that's sort of a last resort.

Now, havingness is present time. Whether the havingness determines you or you determine the havingness is the difference between cause and effect. If the havingness determines you, that's effect. If you determine the havingness, you're cause. So you see, havingness is neither cause nor effect, but can be either cause or effect and is either one.

Now, havingness is present time. Whether the havingness determines you or you determine the havingness is the difference between cause and effect. If the havingness determines you, that's effect. If you determine the havingness, you're cause. So you see, havingness is neither cause nor effect, but can be either cause or effect and is either one.

Now, when we say "having space," we're crossing things up. You don't have space. You perceive space. But the day when you can take and roll up a piece of space and put it in your pocket will be the day when space becomes havingness. So you see how badly disoriented the individual is who is trying to have space, see? There he's — has nothingness. But having nothingness, of course, is having a terrific variable.

Now, when we say "having space," we're crossing things up. You don't have space. You perceive space. But the day when you can take and roll up a piece of space and put it in your pocket will be the day when space becomes havingness. So you see how badly disoriented the individual is who is trying to have space, see? There he's — has nothingness. But having nothingness, of course, is having a terrific variable.

But space isn't nothingness. A thetan thinks space is nothingness when he's bad off, but space is not nothingness. Space is space. It is the area forming a barrier between him and the anchor point. And most people, way down the line, are looking at it as most intolerable stuff: "That's horrible! You mean you've got a barrier with nothing in it." Well, I can tell you something about that person immediately — he's been knocked silly. He's had his postulates reversed. And that's what we're going to take up now.

But space isn't nothingness. A thetan thinks space is nothingness when he's bad off, but space is not nothingness. Space is space. It is the area forming a barrier between him and the anchor point. And most people, way down the line, are looking at it as most intolerable stuff: "That's horrible! You mean you've got a barrier with nothing in it." Well, I can tell you something about that person immediately — he's been knocked silly. He's had his postulates reversed. And that's what we're going to take up now.

Why do we get this inversion? If there is no real — there really isn't any matter, if there's just this agreement on these shapes and forms, then how do we get an inflow turning into an outflow? How do we get a detestation turning into a desire? What's this operation? It's solely an operation of changing postulates. And when I say you have an "inverted sixth" or an "inverted eighth," I mean the postulate's been reversed on it. Now, the postulate can reverse and then re-reverse and then re-reverse and then re-reverse.

Why do we get this inversion? If there is no real — there really isn't any matter, if there's just this agreement on these shapes and forms, then how do we get an inflow turning into an outflow? How do we get a detestation turning into a desire? What's this operation? It's solely an operation of changing postulates. And when I say you have an "inverted sixth" or an "inverted eighth," I mean the postulate's been reversed on it. Now, the postulate can reverse and then re-reverse and then re-reverse and then re-reverse.

Now, how does a postulate reverse? All right, you're going downhill on a toboggan slide, and you're in that toboggan, got a body in it, and you've got one piece of mest, and it has velocity in space. And the toboggan jumps its runners over the edge of the slide and there's a great big tree right there, and at that moment you decide not to have a tree. You get some inference that the body and the tree will not be a compatible union — and the immediate result is you get a tree, see?

Now, how does a postulate reverse? All right, you're going downhill on a toboggan slide, and you're in that toboggan, got a body in it, and you've got one piece of mest, and it has velocity in space. And the toboggan jumps its runners over the edge of the slide and there's a great big tree right there, and at that moment you decide not to have a tree. You get some inference that the body and the tree will not be a compatible union — and the immediate result is you get a tree, see?

So that after a while the thetan gets to the point, "Let's see, when I say I don't have a tree, I get a tree. Must be I want a tree because every time I say I don't want one, I get one; and I really don't want one, so the thing to say is, 'I don't want a tree,' and it'll go away. But, funny thing, when I say I don't want a tree, I get a tree, and when I say I want a tree, I get a tree. Huh! I must really want trees. Yeah, that's right, that's what it's all about. Well, that solves that," he says. "I must have this most terrible infatuation for trees. I say, 'No tree,' ping — tree! I say, 'I want a tree' — tree. But the funny part of it is, sometimes I say, 'No tree' and I get a real good one. And when I say I want one, I get kind of a scrawny thing — weak, thin, you know — I get a little thin tree."

So that after a while the thetan gets to the point, "Let's see, when I say I don't have a tree, I get a tree. Must be I want a tree because every time I say I don't want one, I get one; and I really don't want one, so the thing to say is, 'I don't want a tree,' and it'll go away. But, funny thing, when I say I don't want a tree, I get a tree, and when I say I want a tree, I get a tree. Huh! I must really want trees. Yeah, that's right, that's what it's all about. Well, that solves that," he says. "I must have this most terrible infatuation for trees. I say, 'No tree,' ping — tree! I say, 'I want a tree' — tree. But the funny part of it is, sometimes I say, 'No tree' and I get a real good one. And when I say I want one, I get kind of a scrawny thing — weak, thin, you know — I get a little thin tree."

Well, he goes along that way very happily for a while, and he is going downhill on a toboggan — got a body on the toboggan, and he's going downhill and enjoying the motion a great deal — he's doing. And the toboggan jumps off the rails and he hits the edge of the bank and manages to say, "No tree," and gets no tree! "Oh," he thinks, "this is fine, I get — 'No tree,' I get no tree." So he's sitting around twiddling his thumbs — not doing, he's thinking now. And he says, "Let's see, now — oh, all right, I want a tree. I get a kind of a thin tree here. Now I don't want a tree. Oh, my God," he says, "I get a tree and then I don't get a tree and I get a tree and I don't get a tree and I get a tree and I don't. . . Oh, that's too bothersome — to hell with trees! I don't want anything to do with them; they're completely uncertain. I say, 'I get a tree,' and — I say, 'I want a tree' and there's no tree, and then I say 'I want a tree' and there is a tree, and this is too confusing. My self-determinism has been interrupted somewhere now."

Well, he goes along that way very happily for a while, and he is going downhill on a toboggan — got a body on the toboggan, and he's going downhill and enjoying the motion a great deal — he's doing. And the toboggan jumps off the rails and he hits the edge of the bank and manages to say, "No tree," and gets no tree! "Oh," he thinks, "this is fine, I get — 'No tree,' I get no tree." So he's sitting around twiddling his thumbs — not doing, he's thinking now. And he says, "Let's see, now — oh, all right, I want a tree. I get a kind of a thin tree here. Now I don't want a tree. Oh, my God," he says, "I get a tree and then I don't get a tree and I get a tree and I don't get a tree and I get a tree and I don't. . . Oh, that's too bothersome — to hell with trees! I don't want anything to do with them; they're completely uncertain. I say, 'I get a tree,' and — I say, 'I want a tree' and there's no tree, and then I say 'I want a tree' and there is a tree, and this is too confusing. My self-determinism has been interrupted somewhere now."

What happened? He won one time and lost the other time, and now he's got both times. And because he's low on havingness (he'd already have to be low on havingness — you see, it made him low on havingness when he dented this body up; that spoiled his aesthetics slightly), why, he's got both of these incidents now. Got them both. And one will interfere with the other, because both of them interfere with havingness. Both of them are havingness, and it follows out that he must have been raised in a treeless country, because there must be a slight scarcity of trees for any of this to take effect at all.

What happened? He won one time and lost the other time, and now he's got both times. And because he's low on havingness (he'd already have to be low on havingness — you see, it made him low on havingness when he dented this body up; that spoiled his aesthetics slightly), why, he's got both of these incidents now. Got them both. And one will interfere with the other, because both of them interfere with havingness. Both of them are havingness, and it follows out that he must have been raised in a treeless country, because there must be a slight scarcity of trees for any of this to take effect at all.

Well, how about a great big piece of space with nothing in it? Well, let me assure you that that is really empty; there's no havingness in it at all. That's very confusing to a thetan. He could sit in a piece of space for eight hundred billion years and he'd never know it — where there's no shift of particles, so he has no time. Nothing ages, nothing changes — because there's nothing to age and nothing to change. So he starts out with a basic scarcity on havingness, doesn't he? So therefore, anything he gets from there on is a bonus, whether he gets it bad or good. And you could put on his banner, his guidon, "Anything is better than nothing." "Any havingness is superior to no havingness" — that's his motto.

Well, how about a great big piece of space with nothing in it? Well, let me assure you that that is really empty; there's no havingness in it at all. That's very confusing to a thetan. He could sit in a piece of space for eight hundred billion years and he'd never know it — where there's no shift of particles, so he has no time. Nothing ages, nothing changes — because there's nothing to age and nothing to change. So he starts out with a basic scarcity on havingness, doesn't he? So therefore, anything he gets from there on is a bonus, whether he gets it bad or good. And you could put on his banner, his guidon, "Anything is better than nothing." "Any havingness is superior to no havingness" — that's his motto.

Now, when he first begins to believe that he can't create, as I was going into yesterday, you see, everything gets scarce — space gets scarce and everything gets scarce. But when he's filled up an awful big piece of space full of all kinds of havingnesses, he's got lots of havingnesses and no space. And these havingnesses seem to have — because he's run into lots of trees, you see, and lots of walls; and he says, "No tree" and he gets a tree and he says, "No wall" and he gets a wall, and then the next time he says, "No wall" and he doesn't get a wall (he was right that time) — so his own rightness is getting very hit or miss. He begins to believe that this stuff itself has a command value over him. So the command value of it, of course, is much greater than his command value, and he simply neglects to get a new piece of space to fill up. Solely because any havingness is better than no havingness. So he's got a havingness.

Now, when he first begins to believe that he can't create, as I was going into yesterday, you see, everything gets scarce — space gets scarce and everything gets scarce. But when he's filled up an awful big piece of space full of all kinds of havingnesses, he's got lots of havingnesses and no space. And these havingnesses seem to have — because he's run into lots of trees, you see, and lots of walls; and he says, "No tree" and he gets a tree and he says, "No wall" and he gets a wall, and then the next time he says, "No wall" and he doesn't get a wall (he was right that time) — so his own rightness is getting very hit or miss. He begins to believe that this stuff itself has a command value over him. So the command value of it, of course, is much greater than his command value, and he simply neglects to get a new piece of space to fill up. Solely because any havingness is better than no havingness. So he's got a havingness.

So the darn fool will hold on to a havingness to the last auditor! So we have four steps to remedy havingness, and only three to remedy beingness. Doingness, as I said — which is actually creatingness and doingness with particles — we have two different kinds of doingness: there's the doingness which is not a doingness at all, a creatingness. The creatingness plus doingness is SOP 80, but that's how you make an Operating Thetan out of a Theta Clear. You're interested in making Theta Clears. And at the time you're up on that level, you get SOP 80, it'll sure look awful easy. It is very easy. It's how you go about, by gradient scales, getting him to talk and getting him to create and getting him to move things and the drills necessary to do this. But that one we sort of inherit as we go along. You get a little bit of imagination, you — Step I — you actually don't need the process at all. The process we need is SOP 8-C; that's the vital one.

So the darn fool will hold on to a havingness to the last auditor! So we have four steps to remedy havingness, and only three to remedy beingness. Doingness, as I said — which is actually creatingness and doingness with particles — we have two different kinds of doingness: there's the doingness which is not a doingness at all, a creatingness. The creatingness plus doingness is SOP 80, but that's how you make an Operating Thetan out of a Theta Clear. You're interested in making Theta Clears. And at the time you're up on that level, you get SOP 80, it'll sure look awful easy. It is very easy. It's how you go about, by gradient scales, getting him to talk and getting him to create and getting him to move things and the drills necessary to do this. But that one we sort of inherit as we go along. You get a little bit of imagination, you — Step I — you actually don't need the process at all. The process we need is SOP 8-C; that's the vital one.

So as we work with a preclear, we should realize that as we go down these steps — it's a diabolically clever design. When you go down these steps — Step I, he didn't; Step II, he didn't; Step III, he didn't. You needn't bother — you just plain needn't bother — to go to IV, V, VI and VII on exteriorization, as a pattern, really. What you should do is if you've gone through those three steps and he didn't exteriorize, he's got to have his havingness remedied.

So as we work with a preclear, we should realize that as we go down these steps — it's a diabolically clever design. When you go down these steps — Step I, he didn't; Step II, he didn't; Step III, he didn't. You needn't bother — you just plain needn't bother — to go to IV, V, VI and VII on exteriorization, as a pattern, really. What you should do is if you've gone through those three steps and he didn't exteriorize, he's got to have his havingness remedied.

Well, there are special ways to remedy havingness, just on exteriorization, and that comes under just methods of exteriorization.

Well, there are special ways to remedy havingness, just on exteriorization, and that comes under just methods of exteriorization.

You understand that SOP 8-C is not slanted straight at exteriorization. That is not its purpose. But Steps I, II, and III of it are good exteriorization steps — they're the best. And so if someone were just working SOP 8-C blindly, he'd just go I, II, III, see, and the guy didn't exteriorize. So he'd do I, II, III, and the fellow wouldn't exteriorize. So he'd do I, II, III, wouldn't exteriorize — hadn't exteriorized yet — go find an auditor I trained. That's it. Because the tricky part of all this is remedying the havingness. And he could go on through IV, V, VI, and VII if he were really hard up on the thing, and do a lot with the case, and probably exteriorize the case. But when a fellow's havingness is upset, it requires a method of exteriorization which rather exceeds it. It — this will only be about 25 percent of the cases — be less than 25 percent of the cases probably. Do you know that about 50 percent of the people you run into exteriorize on "Be three feet back of your head"?

You understand that SOP 8-C is not slanted straight at exteriorization. That is not its purpose. But Steps I, II, and III of it are good exteriorization steps — they're the best. And so if someone were just working SOP 8-C blindly, he'd just go I, II, III, see, and the guy didn't exteriorize. So he'd do I, II, III, and the fellow wouldn't exteriorize. So he'd do I, II, III, wouldn't exteriorize — hadn't exteriorized yet — go find an auditor I trained. That's it. Because the tricky part of all this is remedying the havingness. And he could go on through IV, V, VI, and VII if he were really hard up on the thing, and do a lot with the case, and probably exteriorize the case. But when a fellow's havingness is upset, it requires a method of exteriorization which rather exceeds it. It — this will only be about 25 percent of the cases — be less than 25 percent of the cases probably. Do you know that about 50 percent of the people you run into exteriorize on "Be three feet back of your head"?

Well, so on SOP 8-C an auditor not familiar — not further trained — simply should go over I, II, III, and then do Steps I, II, III, and then do Steps I, II, III. And if the guy didn't exteriorize by that time, so on, he could, if he knew of it, go into this method of exteriorization which utilizes effort and — remedies havingness and utilizes effort — specific step.

Well, so on SOP 8-C an auditor not familiar — not further trained — simply should go over I, II, III, and then do Steps I, II, III, and then do Steps I, II, III. And if the guy didn't exteriorize by that time, so on, he could, if he knew of it, go into this method of exteriorization which utilizes effort and — remedies havingness and utilizes effort — specific step.

SOP 8-C is designed to have somebody outside and run. The thing is slanted at running a thetan who is exteriorized; that's its purpose. So, you consider method of exteriorization as a specialized technique. Now, there's a good reason why I'm doing that — good reason why it's designed that way. It's because some poor dog of a preclear is going to get churned over and beaten at and turned upside down and this way, and ridges blown this way and interrupted that way by the use of IV, V, VI, and VII while he's interiorized.

SOP 8-C is designed to have somebody outside and run. The thing is slanted at running a thetan who is exteriorized; that's its purpose. So, you consider method of exteriorization as a specialized technique. Now, there's a good reason why I'm doing that — good reason why it's designed that way. It's because some poor dog of a preclear is going to get churned over and beaten at and turned upside down and this way, and ridges blown this way and interrupted that way by the use of IV, V, VI, and VII while he's interiorized.

And you understand that you can use VII and so forth, and you can get along fine on a guy who's still inside. You can use some VI and you'll get along fine, I'm sure. But you don't have to and you shouldn't be running him on those steps interiorized. You should boot him out and run him outside.

And you understand that you can use VII and so forth, and you can get along fine on a guy who's still inside. You can use some VI and you'll get along fine, I'm sure. But you don't have to and you shouldn't be running him on those steps interiorized. You should boot him out and run him outside.

So as long as we would leave, in a Standard Operating Procedure, the fact that we ran these things on somebody who was interiorized, we would get somebody busily churning up a preclear and churning up his banks and busting him around this way and that, and wrecking him practically. Getting him all restimulated, throwing Fac Ones into restimulation now, by running these things on somebody who was still inside. So we just put on the brakes and we say to the uninitiated that "You run Steps I and II and III. And if he isn't out yet, run Steps I and II and III. And if he's not out yet, run I and II and III; and if he's not out then, go find somebody from the clinical course." See, that's — or we say, "Well, here are some directions and if you want to follow these, all right, we don't take any responsibility for what happens."

So as long as we would leave, in a Standard Operating Procedure, the fact that we ran these things on somebody who was interiorized, we would get somebody busily churning up a preclear and churning up his banks and busting him around this way and that, and wrecking him practically. Getting him all restimulated, throwing Fac Ones into restimulation now, by running these things on somebody who was still inside. So we just put on the brakes and we say to the uninitiated that "You run Steps I and II and III. And if he isn't out yet, run Steps I and II and III. And if he's not out yet, run I and II and III; and if he's not out then, go find somebody from the clinical course." See, that's — or we say, "Well, here are some directions and if you want to follow these, all right, we don't take any responsibility for what happens."

This is based upon what man calls "experience." I have watched auditors using IV, V, VI and VII, and you'd simply think that they, in general, were just turning a crank on an unbearably heavy machine. And they're — they just forget all about exteriorization. They say, "This fellow's a V and that's all, and so we'll just run these steps." And the next thing you know, why, this fellow's banks are caving in and his anchor points are flying out over the left ear and all sorts of things are happening. And this guy is still standing there at the crank going round and round and round, and you keep picking these people up and patching them up and picking them up and patching them up and you say, "What are you doing to this person?" — to this auditor, "What are you doing?"

This is based upon what man calls "experience." I have watched auditors using IV, V, VI and VII, and you'd simply think that they, in general, were just turning a crank on an unbearably heavy machine. And they're — they just forget all about exteriorization. They say, "This fellow's a V and that's all, and so we'll just run these steps." And the next thing you know, why, this fellow's banks are caving in and his anchor points are flying out over the left ear and all sorts of things are happening. And this guy is still standing there at the crank going round and round and round, and you keep picking these people up and patching them up and picking them up and patching them up and you say, "What are you doing to this person?" — to this auditor, "What are you doing?"

"Well, we're just running this Step V, that's all, and that's all."

"Well, we're just running this Step V, that's all, and that's all."

And you'll say, "Well, when I patched him up, when I got him patched up and got the auditing off and so forth, I just said to him 'Be three feet back of your head,' and he couldn't make it the first time. So I told him to put his (quote) 'hands' (unquote) on his shoulders and hold himself back there for a moment and he did. And then we ran Duplication and Spacation back there until his perception on space turned up, and then he got his space oriented and he's all right now. Why didn't you do this?"

And you'll say, "Well, when I patched him up, when I got him patched up and got the auditing off and so forth, I just said to him 'Be three feet back of your head,' and he couldn't make it the first time. So I told him to put his (quote) 'hands' (unquote) on his shoulders and hold himself back there for a moment and he did. And then we ran Duplication and Spacation back there until his perception on space turned up, and then he got his space oriented and he's all right now. Why didn't you do this?"

The fellow says, "Oh, is that the way you do it?" and you go over this and you explain it. But as long as that would sit in SOP 8 saying, "You run IV, V, VI and VII," that was the hole — there was a hole — in SOP 8, and it was the hole of application. Your auditor didn't take these as exteriorization steps. He said, "The guy is inside and I can't get him out, so I'm now going to process him with these steps."

The fellow says, "Oh, is that the way you do it?" and you go over this and you explain it. But as long as that would sit in SOP 8 saying, "You run IV, V, VI and VII," that was the hole — there was a hole — in SOP 8, and it was the hole of application. Your auditor didn't take these as exteriorization steps. He said, "The guy is inside and I can't get him out, so I'm now going to process him with these steps."

So skip it. We'll take I, II, and III, which are patently exteriorization steps and then we'll add to that a pat method of exteriorization, and design SOP 8-C to be run on somebody who is outside.

So skip it. We'll take I, II, and III, which are patently exteriorization steps and then we'll add to that a pat method of exteriorization, and design SOP 8-C to be run on somebody who is outside.

It just happens — this is by an accident — that I, II, and III exteriorize people. They're what should be run on a thetan who has been exteriorized. And I don't care how badly he's been exteriorized or how poorly he can perceive or whatever else he can do, if you've got him exteriorized, you're running I, II and III, IV, V, VI and VII. Because if he's exteriorized, he isn't going to ruin himself. See, he doesn't churn up that old thing called the reactive mind. I, II, and III doesn't — these don't churn him up while he's still inside.

It just happens — this is by an accident — that I, II, and III exteriorize people. They're what should be run on a thetan who has been exteriorized. And I don't care how badly he's been exteriorized or how poorly he can perceive or whatever else he can do, if you've got him exteriorized, you're running I, II and III, IV, V, VI and VII. Because if he's exteriorized, he isn't going to ruin himself. See, he doesn't churn up that old thing called the reactive mind. I, II, and III doesn't — these don't churn him up while he's still inside.

It would surprise you how many tests I have had run on this. This is one of the most careful investigations that was probably ever undertaken. And the number of tests which have been run by people picking these things up and just running them through during the past year, particularly, are astonishing. I mean, there are just series, series, series, series, and we find out this is uniformly the case.

It would surprise you how many tests I have had run on this. This is one of the most careful investigations that was probably ever undertaken. And the number of tests which have been run by people picking these things up and just running them through during the past year, particularly, are astonishing. I mean, there are just series, series, series, series, and we find out this is uniformly the case.

This is the conclusion we just — that anybody would reach on this. And I reached this conclusion, then had it borne out in actual practice, just right across the boards, is: Any processing which you do on somebody inside his head is going to eventually do him no good. You got that? That's a pretty brutal thing to state, isn't it? But the cases that have been checked on this have, after a period of time, shown no gain. You can erase an engram, you can erase engrams for maybe — skilled; good, skilled erasure — for about two hundred hours, that's all. But that's real skilled auditing, that's the best.

This is the conclusion we just — that anybody would reach on this. And I reached this conclusion, then had it borne out in actual practice, just right across the boards, is: Any processing which you do on somebody inside his head is going to eventually do him no good. You got that? That's a pretty brutal thing to state, isn't it? But the cases that have been checked on this have, after a period of time, shown no gain. You can erase an engram, you can erase engrams for maybe — skilled; good, skilled erasure — for about two hundred hours, that's all. But that's real skilled auditing, that's the best.

Routine running of engrams, your pc doesn't last thirty hours. He'll get better for thirty hours and then the auditor has normally left him stuck in this session unfinished, and that session unfinished, and this engram half run out, and the fellow contradicted and a bunch of phrases on the banks — "Now, what does that phrase mean to you?" and so on. And the guy just after about thirty hours, why, he just didn't need any more.

Routine running of engrams, your pc doesn't last thirty hours. He'll get better for thirty hours and then the auditor has normally left him stuck in this session unfinished, and that session unfinished, and this engram half run out, and the fellow contradicted and a bunch of phrases on the banks — "Now, what does that phrase mean to you?" and so on. And the guy just after about thirty hours, why, he just didn't need any more.

Well, the same thing happened in psychoanalysis, so we didn't do anything new. You get somebody working in psychoanalysis — if anybody was going to make a gain in psychoanalysis, he made it in the first five hours. And if anybody went beyond five hours, if they had some of these (dash) — lack of adjective — (dash) sitting in consulting rooms . . . These guys — I don't think they ever read anything by Freud. I don't.

Well, the same thing happened in psychoanalysis, so we didn't do anything new. You get somebody working in psychoanalysis — if anybody was going to make a gain in psychoanalysis, he made it in the first five hours. And if anybody went beyond five hours, if they had some of these (dash) — lack of adjective — (dash) sitting in consulting rooms . . . These guys — I don't think they ever read anything by Freud. I don't.

I've talked to a lot of them. I talked to one. He said he was a "Horn-eye" man. That's actually — the name is "Horney." Yeah, he was a "Horn-eye" man.

I've talked to a lot of them. I talked to one. He said he was a "Horn-eye" man. That's actually — the name is "Horney." Yeah, he was a "Horn-eye" man.

And I said, "Is that so? Yeah, I see you have a book by Karen Horney over in your bookcase."

And I said, "Is that so? Yeah, I see you have a book by Karen Horney over in your bookcase."

"Oh," he says, "do I?"

"Oh," he says, "do I?"

I said, "Yes," thinking he was joking, and I said, "but you don't have any of her advanced works. That's the popular work."

I said, "Yes," thinking he was joking, and I said, "but you don't have any of her advanced works. That's the popular work."

"I don't know," he said, "I've never read it."

"I don't know," he said, "I've never read it."

I said, "You ever read any of her advanced works?"

I said, "You ever read any of her advanced works?"

"No."

"No."

"You ever take a course given by her?"

"You ever take a course given by her?"

"No."

"No."

"Did you ever talk to anybody that practiced what she practices?"

"Did you ever talk to anybody that practiced what she practices?"

"No. No."

"No. No."

"Well," I said, "how the hell did you get to be a 'Horn-eye' man?"

"Well," I said, "how the hell did you get to be a 'Horn-eye' man?"

"Oh," he said, "I sort of favor it."

"Oh," he said, "I sort of favor it."

What room? (audience laughter)

What room? (audience laughter)

Now, you get this fellow chipping away on somebody's psyche, what's going to happen? He's in there to put in time. That's all he's going to do, he's going to put in time. And his method of putting in time is to tell the person they ought to talk, and then make them talk.

Now, you get this fellow chipping away on somebody's psyche, what's going to happen? He's in there to put in time. That's all he's going to do, he's going to put in time. And his method of putting in time is to tell the person they ought to talk, and then make them talk.

You know, it's a funny thing, but if you could make somebody talk who isn't talking, and persuade them that they have got a good reason to talk and just keep them talking — not thinking, you understand, just talking — if you could keep them from thinking and just keep them talking, you would break some communication blocks. You couldn't help it. But if any are going to be busted by the process, they'll be busted in the first five hours. And the total gain on the process is to permit somebody to communicate a little better. So you get a slight communication jump — almost undetectably slight. There's psychoanalysis. And its limitation in terms of time, you see, was very sharp.

You know, it's a funny thing, but if you could make somebody talk who isn't talking, and persuade them that they have got a good reason to talk and just keep them talking — not thinking, you understand, just talking — if you could keep them from thinking and just keep them talking, you would break some communication blocks. You couldn't help it. But if any are going to be busted by the process, they'll be busted in the first five hours. And the total gain on the process is to permit somebody to communicate a little better. So you get a slight communication jump — almost undetectably slight. There's psychoanalysis. And its limitation in terms of time, you see, was very sharp.

Now, as they started mauling this fellow over and let him go a year of four hours a week, two years at four hours a week, seven years at four hours a week — uhh! Boy, we've got an installed automaticity called a psychoanalyst after the end of the first year. And when the psychoanalyst happens to mention that he ought to bark, the fellow just suddenly goes, "Woof, woof," and this is very handy.

Now, as they started mauling this fellow over and let him go a year of four hours a week, two years at four hours a week, seven years at four hours a week — uhh! Boy, we've got an installed automaticity called a psychoanalyst after the end of the first year. And when the psychoanalyst happens to mention that he ought to bark, the fellow just suddenly goes, "Woof, woof," and this is very handy.

Now, there's a fellow down in Los Angeles who's a third-rate hypnotist — he's a first-rate American or Western hypnotist but boy, that is about eighth-rate. What these guys don't know about hypnotism; they're all hypnotizable, all these hypnotists — very hypnotizable. They don't know any basic mechanisms for it and it's very, very, very amusing when they're giving a demonstration, to cross-hypnotize them. Anyway . . . You wind up with one hypnotized subject with a hypnotized operator, and you're running the operator to run the subject. It's a very, very amusing setup.

Now, there's a fellow down in Los Angeles who's a third-rate hypnotist — he's a first-rate American or Western hypnotist but boy, that is about eighth-rate. What these guys don't know about hypnotism; they're all hypnotizable, all these hypnotists — very hypnotizable. They don't know any basic mechanisms for it and it's very, very, very amusing when they're giving a demonstration, to cross-hypnotize them. Anyway . . . You wind up with one hypnotized subject with a hypnotized operator, and you're running the operator to run the subject. It's a very, very amusing setup.

Now, I'm not being snide about these boys, but gee, the fellow who doesn't know hypnotism from the word go, gets into hypnotism, ought to know better. You might say the gods have already triggered that rat race. And if the fellow who is really begging you for processing — really begging you for processing — isn't a hypnotist or hasn't been one, why, I'm quite surprised. Those are the guys that really get down and beg. They say, "Christ, do something for me. Do something, do something — do anything." And they practice self-hypnosis and broad hypnosis in general, and they've practiced it so long and interfered with so much self-determinism and looked at so much and caused so much and created so much unconsciousness, that they're out on their feet. And of course, when a fellow is an experienced hypnotist, he's practically out on his feet.

Now, I'm not being snide about these boys, but gee, the fellow who doesn't know hypnotism from the word go, gets into hypnotism, ought to know better. You might say the gods have already triggered that rat race. And if the fellow who is really begging you for processing — really begging you for processing — isn't a hypnotist or hasn't been one, why, I'm quite surprised. Those are the guys that really get down and beg. They say, "Christ, do something for me. Do something, do something — do anything." And they practice self-hypnosis and broad hypnosis in general, and they've practiced it so long and interfered with so much self-determinism and looked at so much and caused so much and created so much unconsciousness, that they're out on their feet. And of course, when a fellow is an experienced hypnotist, he's practically out on his feet.

See, he's just looked at unconsciousness — just take Q and A now: "Is the fellow hypnotized? Is the subject hypnotized or isn't it? Yes, I guess the subject is hypnotized." Huh-huh! Next subject: "Now, is the subject hypnotized," the operator is saying, "or isn't he hypnotized? Yeah, he's hypnotized." Oh, oh, oh, oh — Q and A, Q and A, Q and A. And eventually somebody conies along and all you got to do is make one light pass right in front of their eyes as they're hypnotizing somebody and say, "Sleep," and they go flutter, flutter, flutter, flutter, flutter. And you hypnotize them with all of their hypnotizing of others.

See, he's just looked at unconsciousness — just take Q and A now: "Is the fellow hypnotized? Is the subject hypnotized or isn't it? Yes, I guess the subject is hypnotized." Huh-huh! Next subject: "Now, is the subject hypnotized," the operator is saying, "or isn't he hypnotized? Yeah, he's hypnotized." Oh, oh, oh, oh — Q and A, Q and A, Q and A. And eventually somebody conies along and all you got to do is make one light pass right in front of their eyes as they're hypnotizing somebody and say, "Sleep," and they go flutter, flutter, flutter, flutter, flutter. And you hypnotize them with all of their hypnotizing of others.

I don't ask you to do that — I'm telling you what's wrong with these boys. You just run Q and A on unconsciousness: putting unconsciousnesses into things, putting hypnotic feeling into things, putting obedience and disobedience into things, and they run out. All right.

I don't ask you to do that — I'm telling you what's wrong with these boys. You just run Q and A on unconsciousness: putting unconsciousnesses into things, putting hypnotic feeling into things, putting obedience and disobedience into things, and they run out. All right.

That's by the way, a tricky trick — putting things into things — because it gives the preclear space. It's very tricky. It gives him — it's a covert method of making him make anchor points out of emotional surges. All right.

That's by the way, a tricky trick — putting things into things — because it gives the preclear space. It's very tricky. It gives him — it's a covert method of making him make anchor points out of emotional surges. All right.

Let's look over what an auditor is trying to do. And we find out that he's trying to get the preclear out of the idea that he is energy and can be something, which is to say give him space, but that the best of the preclear is simply to know.

Let's look over what an auditor is trying to do. And we find out that he's trying to get the preclear out of the idea that he is energy and can be something, which is to say give him space, but that the best of the preclear is simply to know.

Now, so we get this — the motion the auditor is making is to disabuse a thought-space-energy-time production unit of the fact that it is space, energy or time. Now, that's the motion. See, he's going to do that.

Now, so we get this — the motion the auditor is making is to disabuse a thought-space-energy-time production unit of the fact that it is space, energy or time. Now, that's the motion. See, he's going to do that.

Well now, the biggest single jump he will make in there is to say, "Be three feet back of your head," you see, and the fellow is. See how simple? "Be three feet back of your head," and the fellow is and the fellow says, "What do you know? I am not a mass of energy called a body." See, that's a big jump there.

Well now, the biggest single jump he will make in there is to say, "Be three feet back of your head," you see, and the fellow is. See how simple? "Be three feet back of your head," and the fellow is and the fellow says, "What do you know? I am not a mass of energy called a body." See, that's a big jump there.

So you go on from there to exercise his talents and separate him out, but you'll get up to a certain point and he will have to be drilled — that's up above the point of Theta Clear — he has to be drilled on creation. Oh, but lots! Why you get unhappy. See, anything is better than nothing. Havingness is very desirable. And if he can't have directly, why, he'll be quite upset, so you have to drill him so that he can have bountifully. Okay.

So you go on from there to exercise his talents and separate him out, but you'll get up to a certain point and he will have to be drilled — that's up above the point of Theta Clear — he has to be drilled on creation. Oh, but lots! Why you get unhappy. See, anything is better than nothing. Havingness is very desirable. And if he can't have directly, why, he'll be quite upset, so you have to drill him so that he can have bountifully. Okay.

What should you be doing — following through each new step, new idea I give you every day?

What should you be doing — following through each new step, new idea I give you every day?

Male voice: No. I, II, III and help him get exteriorized. Stay with it.

Male voice: No. I, II, III and help him get exteriorized. Stay with it.

That's right. Use I, II, III and this other one — method of exteriorization. Comes under the methods of exteriorization of those people who are having trouble with havingness.

That's right. Use I, II, III and this other one — method of exteriorization. Comes under the methods of exteriorization of those people who are having trouble with havingness.

Anybody who doesn't exteriorize easily is having trouble with havingness, only that. And you can put that up in — it's too old fashioned to put things up in letters of fire; you can put this up in this flaming nylon paint. That's because, you see, letters of fire have to be fed all the time for new fire or something of the sort, and this nylon paint just goes on glowing forever. But put this up: If he doesn't exteriorize, he's having trouble with havingness.

Anybody who doesn't exteriorize easily is having trouble with havingness, only that. And you can put that up in — it's too old fashioned to put things up in letters of fire; you can put this up in this flaming nylon paint. That's because, you see, letters of fire have to be fed all the time for new fire or something of the sort, and this nylon paint just goes on glowing forever. But put this up: If he doesn't exteriorize, he's having trouble with havingness.

How many ways are there to remedy havingness? Well, there's a lot of them, and the way you remedy it when he's exteriorized are Steps IV, V, VI, and VII. But remedying it while he's still inside is a little bit too easy; it is too easy to use all this fanfare of Steps IV, V, VI, and VII on him. I mean that's something like a doctor going to do an operation on somebody, he brings in a tool chest and saws and augers and so forth.

How many ways are there to remedy havingness? Well, there's a lot of them, and the way you remedy it when he's exteriorized are Steps IV, V, VI, and VII. But remedying it while he's still inside is a little bit too easy; it is too easy to use all this fanfare of Steps IV, V, VI, and VII on him. I mean that's something like a doctor going to do an operation on somebody, he brings in a tool chest and saws and augers and so forth.

A ship's doctor one time pulled a good gag that way. A fellow had a wart — it was going to be cut off. So the doctor had a couple of carpenter's mates down there with tool chests, and he kept unpacking saws and braces and bits and power tools and so forth, and then he took his penknife out of his pocket and cut the wart off.

A ship's doctor one time pulled a good gag that way. A fellow had a wart — it was going to be cut off. So the doctor had a couple of carpenter's mates down there with tool chests, and he kept unpacking saws and braces and bits and power tools and so forth, and then he took his penknife out of his pocket and cut the wart off.

Well, anyway, that's just about what an auditor does when he suddenly hauls in IV, V, VI and VII to exteriorize somebody. He'll get him so bogged down with tools, that he won't push anybody out of his head. Because he — evidently they just completely lose track of what they're trying to do with IV, V, VI and VII. And these steps are very essential on a thetan exteriorized, and very nonessential on somebody who is still inside. They're nonessential. You're not going to remedy anything. There's too much of it, that's all. You can have dredges and scoop shovels going just endlessly, and you won't get out all of the concepts having to do with this or that, something of the sort.

Well, anyway, that's just about what an auditor does when he suddenly hauls in IV, V, VI and VII to exteriorize somebody. He'll get him so bogged down with tools, that he won't push anybody out of his head. Because he — evidently they just completely lose track of what they're trying to do with IV, V, VI and VII. And these steps are very essential on a thetan exteriorized, and very nonessential on somebody who is still inside. They're nonessential. You're not going to remedy anything. There's too much of it, that's all. You can have dredges and scoop shovels going just endlessly, and you won't get out all of the concepts having to do with this or that, something of the sort.

Cases don't exteriorize more easily because they've had these full steps run on them. They exteriorize with greater difficulty. Because the effort of exteriorization of something which isn't stuck to anything, you see, is non­existent. Somebody who's been having trouble exteriorizing somebody is going to sit back one of these days, I hope very shortly, and laugh himself slightly silly.

Cases don't exteriorize more easily because they've had these full steps run on them. They exteriorize with greater difficulty. Because the effort of exteriorization of something which isn't stuck to anything, you see, is non­existent. Somebody who's been having trouble exteriorizing somebody is going to sit back one of these days, I hope very shortly, and laugh himself slightly silly.

Now, we're going to take this unit here which doesn't have anything stuck to anything. It's going to be right in the middle of the bowl of this ashtray here, see. And there it is in the bowl of the ashtray, it's not stuck to anything. There's no magnetic pull between the ashtray and it; all this unit can do is know and create. He can't stick to anything. It — absolutely impossible for any barrier to be put up that it couldn't go through. I mean, this was — is the impossibility — to put up a barrier that the thetan can't penetrate.

Now, we're going to take this unit here which doesn't have anything stuck to anything. It's going to be right in the middle of the bowl of this ashtray here, see. And there it is in the bowl of the ashtray, it's not stuck to anything. There's no magnetic pull between the ashtray and it; all this unit can do is know and create. He can't stick to anything. It — absolutely impossible for any barrier to be put up that it couldn't go through. I mean, this was — is the impossibility — to put up a barrier that the thetan can't penetrate.

People in this universe have been trying to solve that the length of time this universe has been in existence. How do you put up a barrier that a thetan can't get into or out of — through? You just can't do it. So we have to have religion and all sorts of things in order to assist them. All right.

People in this universe have been trying to solve that the length of time this universe has been in existence. How do you put up a barrier that a thetan can't get into or out of — through? You just can't do it. So we have to have religion and all sorts of things in order to assist them. All right.

So here sits this unit of energy — now, he's knowingness, he has an indi­viduality, he has a personality. Now, of course, here he is and you're going to — you want him here — over here, outside this bowl of this ashtray. This is to demonstrate to him he isn't the ashtray.

So here sits this unit of energy — now, he's knowingness, he has an indi­viduality, he has a personality. Now, of course, here he is and you're going to — you want him here — over here, outside this bowl of this ashtray. This is to demonstrate to him he isn't the ashtray.

What he most knows while he's sitting right here — he thinks he knows — is that he's an ashtray, merely because he's surrounded by an ashtray. And now you want to get him outside the bowl of the ashtray, at which moment he will suddenly know with great certainty, "Gee, what do you know, I'm not an ashtray." See? That's what you're trying to do. And you're going to come up here with a scoop shovel and a dragnet and jimmies and hammers and assembly belts and conveyor belts and Mack trucks and so forth, to move this energy unit — which has no mass and no energy — three feet. Huh-uh.

What he most knows while he's sitting right here — he thinks he knows — is that he's an ashtray, merely because he's surrounded by an ashtray. And now you want to get him outside the bowl of the ashtray, at which moment he will suddenly know with great certainty, "Gee, what do you know, I'm not an ashtray." See? That's what you're trying to do. And you're going to come up here with a scoop shovel and a dragnet and jimmies and hammers and assembly belts and conveyor belts and Mack trucks and so forth, to move this energy unit — which has no mass and no energy — three feet. Huh-uh.

The essential missing ingredient in the problem is that the thetan is having trouble with havingness. And the only reason he doesn't get out of the body — believe me, the only reason he doesn't get out — is because he thinks he'll lose some more havingness, and he figures he's lost enough, thank you. And he has havingness confused with knowingness.

The essential missing ingredient in the problem is that the thetan is having trouble with havingness. And the only reason he doesn't get out of the body — believe me, the only reason he doesn't get out — is because he thinks he'll lose some more havingness, and he figures he's lost enough, thank you. And he has havingness confused with knowingness.

Now, the borderline between Step III and Step IV, and the dividing line, is just that — knowingness becomes a barrier. "One can only perceive if one stops one's sight on a barrier," is what happens just below III. So all perception depends on stopping sight on barriers. See, perception shouldn't have to consist of this, but it does. All right.

Now, the borderline between Step III and Step IV, and the dividing line, is just that — knowingness becomes a barrier. "One can only perceive if one stops one's sight on a barrier," is what happens just below III. So all perception depends on stopping sight on barriers. See, perception shouldn't have to consist of this, but it does. All right.

So knowingness becomes data. It does not become just a potential know. See, it becomes a datum; becomes a barrier.

So knowingness becomes data. It does not become just a potential know. See, it becomes a datum; becomes a barrier.

Now, another thing happens between Step III and Step IV, and at Step III a person has drifted toward but is not yet arrived at the solidity of facts. And from Step III bottom, when he goes into IV, V — facts are getting more and more solid. And the absence of a fact from Step — the bottom of Step III down, very certainly, and less so just above that level — the absence of a fact is an uncertainty. And this is one of those complete reverse postulates: "If the fact isn't there, I am uncertain about it." See, the postulate has to follow immediately before that: "I can only know about it if it is a barrier."

Now, another thing happens between Step III and Step IV, and at Step III a person has drifted toward but is not yet arrived at the solidity of facts. And from Step III bottom, when he goes into IV, V — facts are getting more and more solid. And the absence of a fact from Step — the bottom of Step III down, very certainly, and less so just above that level — the absence of a fact is an uncertainty. And this is one of those complete reverse postulates: "If the fact isn't there, I am uncertain about it." See, the postulate has to follow immediately before that: "I can only know about it if it is a barrier."

Certainty lies in barriers, and that comes on this basis: "Everybody agrees this is good and solid, so it's good and solid. So I can know it is good and solid" — and then, "so I can know it, so I can know," is your gradient scale. Way up, he says, "Everybody knows this is good and solid, so I can know this is good and solid too, and then I can know it," and then his postulate goes down to "Well, it's good and solid, I can know."

Certainty lies in barriers, and that comes on this basis: "Everybody agrees this is good and solid, so it's good and solid. So I can know it is good and solid" — and then, "so I can know it, so I can know," is your gradient scale. Way up, he says, "Everybody knows this is good and solid, so I can know this is good and solid too, and then I can know it," and then his postulate goes down to "Well, it's good and solid, I can know."

I don't know what a wall is ever going to tell you, honest to Pete, but I've looked at people that I'm sure thought they went into vast conversations on the subject of Euclid! Knowingness is a barrier. See, he can only know a barrier. That's below III, he can only know a barrier. So that an absence of a barrier is an uncertainty; an absent barrier, uncertainty.

I don't know what a wall is ever going to tell you, honest to Pete, but I've looked at people that I'm sure thought they went into vast conversations on the subject of Euclid! Knowingness is a barrier. See, he can only know a barrier. That's below III, he can only know a barrier. So that an absence of a barrier is an uncertainty; an absent barrier, uncertainty.

If we've got a hole out there, we get this uncertainty — "What's in it?" "What's in it?" Well, anything is in it you want to put there, but there's nothing residually in it. As a matter of fact, there's not even a nothingness there unless you know it's there.

If we've got a hole out there, we get this uncertainty — "What's in it?" "What's in it?" Well, anything is in it you want to put there, but there's nothing residually in it. As a matter of fact, there's not even a nothingness there unless you know it's there.

So you get people who look out into an empty space where there's no barrier and they say, "I wonder if there's anything in it?" And down by V, the fellow's got it all black and he's saying, "I wonder what's in this? What's in this?" Well, I can tell you what's in it: there's some blackness in it that he put there. What postulate is behind this? "The blackness is there so I can get lost and it can get lost and we can all be lost and we can be lost and have a barrier, too — and what a wonderful solution that is." Gee, lost and have a barrier too! And there you've solved their cake and they're eating it at the same time, and so there's your problem solved.

So you get people who look out into an empty space where there's no barrier and they say, "I wonder if there's anything in it?" And down by V, the fellow's got it all black and he's saying, "I wonder what's in this? What's in this?" Well, I can tell you what's in it: there's some blackness in it that he put there. What postulate is behind this? "The blackness is there so I can get lost and it can get lost and we can all be lost and we can be lost and have a barrier, too — and what a wonderful solution that is." Gee, lost and have a barrier too! And there you've solved their cake and they're eating it at the same time, and so there's your problem solved.

So, what's this business about an uncertainty? At — there's a change of postulate — an inversion has taken place on a preclear who is between Step III and IV, still interior. And there's between Step III and IV exterior too, which is the same place but it's so much — many more harmonics higher on the Tone Scale that it's incalculable. And that is, is — the difference is: Above III, the absence of something is simply an invitation to put something in it — III up, that's just an invitation to put something in it; and III down, the absence of something is, it's probable that somebody else has already put something in it, but it's uncertain, so the only certain thing is, "It's where somebody else has put something."

So, what's this business about an uncertainty? At — there's a change of postulate — an inversion has taken place on a preclear who is between Step III and IV, still interior. And there's between Step III and IV exterior too, which is the same place but it's so much — many more harmonics higher on the Tone Scale that it's incalculable. And that is, is — the difference is: Above III, the absence of something is simply an invitation to put something in it — III up, that's just an invitation to put something in it; and III down, the absence of something is, it's probable that somebody else has already put something in it, but it's uncertain, so the only certain thing is, "It's where somebody else has put something."

And this is the difference between self-determinism and other-determinism. If one is well self-determined, he can look out into or create vast areas of nothingness and know there's nothing there and below that he can't do that. He thinks it's up to somebody else to put it there. And he'll sit there while you're auditing him and patiently wait — patiently wait for something to move him outside.

And this is the difference between self-determinism and other-determinism. If one is well self-determined, he can look out into or create vast areas of nothingness and know there's nothing there and below that he can't do that. He thinks it's up to somebody else to put it there. And he'll sit there while you're auditing him and patiently wait — patiently wait for something to move him outside.

Now, I checked this up one time, there was one preclear patiently waited for about 250 hours for something to suddenly put him outside, some fashion or another.

Now, I checked this up one time, there was one preclear patiently waited for about 250 hours for something to suddenly put him outside, some fashion or another.

Another one, right on this borderline, responded very easily when he was made to run the idea that his body was going to reach in and lift him outside. Well, not because this was in restimulation but because he was doing it all the time, he needed the body to move him around to a point where I told him to be further back out of his head, and he actually grabbed for himself, and his hand closed on him as a thetan. And, of course, didn't close on anything, and his thetan didn't care anything about that barrier. But he saw his hand closing on him — his body's hand. It scared him half out of his wits, but he was expecting himself to be — to move, you see, and he was thinking the body ought to move him. Somebody else must do it. Something else must do it.

Another one, right on this borderline, responded very easily when he was made to run the idea that his body was going to reach in and lift him outside. Well, not because this was in restimulation but because he was doing it all the time, he needed the body to move him around to a point where I told him to be further back out of his head, and he actually grabbed for himself, and his hand closed on him as a thetan. And, of course, didn't close on anything, and his thetan didn't care anything about that barrier. But he saw his hand closing on him — his body's hand. It scared him half out of his wits, but he was expecting himself to be — to move, you see, and he was thinking the body ought to move him. Somebody else must do it. Something else must do it.

Well now a remedy of havingness, then, is your answer. And this brings about your method of exteriorization. The remedy of havingness. And this is done partially in Step I, where people are made to put desire into things, into barriers here and there — as well as ridicule and so forth — but to put desire into things.

Well now a remedy of havingness, then, is your answer. And this brings about your method of exteriorization. The remedy of havingness. And this is done partially in Step I, where people are made to put desire into things, into barriers here and there — as well as ridicule and so forth — but to put desire into things.

Now, if — what's barring the case from exteriorizing is actually his desire to have with certainty, and know that he has. He wants to be reassured of his havingness. And so these first three steps actually, to a marked degree, remedy this situation.

Now, if — what's barring the case from exteriorizing is actually his desire to have with certainty, and know that he has. He wants to be reassured of his havingness. And so these first three steps actually, to a marked degree, remedy this situation.

Well, if you've gone through these two or three times and he doesn't get out then, it's probably one little portion of Step III — rearrangement of anchor points in his body; he's got to rearrange them so as to stop so many body flows and so on — remedy that havingness and straighten it up before he can be outside of it. Or it comes under the heading of his desire for the barricades around him, so forth, is such that he's simply actually caving them in. And he's just caving everything in on him so that in every direction he finds nothing but pressure.

Well, if you've gone through these two or three times and he doesn't get out then, it's probably one little portion of Step III — rearrangement of anchor points in his body; he's got to rearrange them so as to stop so many body flows and so on — remedy that havingness and straighten it up before he can be outside of it. Or it comes under the heading of his desire for the barricades around him, so forth, is such that he's simply actually caving them in. And he's just caving everything in on him so that in every direction he finds nothing but pressure.

A little process on this — we'll have to go into this further, but the process is, you get the thetan to offer you — what's the thetan going to refuse you? What will this person refuse to give you? What will this person give you? Not give you? What would this person accept? Not accept? Not run to start up flows or anything of the sort, but just to show them that their basic trouble is havingness. Because you'll find a person who won't step out of his head wouldn't give up anything. I swear if he had a rattlesnake in his pocket, he wouldn't hand it to you. If he can go through Steps I, II, III; I, II, III — you know, twice — and not be able to step easily out of his head, that's probably the case: If he had a rattlesnake he wouldn't hand it to you; and he'd probably accept from you anything, including a bullet.

A little process on this — we'll have to go into this further, but the process is, you get the thetan to offer you — what's the thetan going to refuse you? What will this person refuse to give you? What will this person give you? Not give you? What would this person accept? Not accept? Not run to start up flows or anything of the sort, but just to show them that their basic trouble is havingness. Because you'll find a person who won't step out of his head wouldn't give up anything. I swear if he had a rattlesnake in his pocket, he wouldn't hand it to you. If he can go through Steps I, II, III; I, II, III — you know, twice — and not be able to step easily out of his head, that's probably the case: If he had a rattlesnake he wouldn't hand it to you; and he'd probably accept from you anything, including a bullet.

You have gravity, inverted attention — all of these things are secondary to this primary thing, the remedy of havingness.

You have gravity, inverted attention — all of these things are secondary to this primary thing, the remedy of havingness.

Now, how do you use SOP 8-C? Just like I've been saying here.

Now, how do you use SOP 8-C? Just like I've been saying here.

Well, what should you be using right now and what should you be doing as auditors? You should be using what I've given you here — SOP 8-C. And your first goal should be the exteriorization of the preclear. And if you haven't exteriorized the person that you are working on — you and your other team member — yet, then what's wrong with that person is, is they haven't enough havingness and you're asking them to give up a big piece of havingness, namely a body. And they're just arguing with you in various fashions as to why they shouldn't give it up, that's all.

Well, what should you be using right now and what should you be doing as auditors? You should be using what I've given you here — SOP 8-C. And your first goal should be the exteriorization of the preclear. And if you haven't exteriorized the person that you are working on — you and your other team member — yet, then what's wrong with that person is, is they haven't enough havingness and you're asking them to give up a big piece of havingness, namely a body. And they're just arguing with you in various fashions as to why they shouldn't give it up, that's all.

So, I want you to boot them out. Use effort — you know, touch, impact. Make them put their hands on their shoulders and push themselves back from themselves and so forth, these other techniques. I used approximately the same technique yesterday on two preclears that had been stumbling all over the place. And this one that I'm asking you to do is the easy one. Now, let's just get them outside so we can get to work.

So, I want you to boot them out. Use effort — you know, touch, impact. Make them put their hands on their shoulders and push themselves back from themselves and so forth, these other techniques. I used approximately the same technique yesterday on two preclears that had been stumbling all over the place. And this one that I'm asking you to do is the easy one. Now, let's just get them outside so we can get to work.

What's holding them in there is not enough havingness. So they're building bodies, they're holding bodies, they're holding everybody else's body, they're holding even terrifically aberrative people — anything that looks like a barrier, anyplace all up and down the bank, is so desirable that they're — caved them all in on themselves.

What's holding them in there is not enough havingness. So they're building bodies, they're holding bodies, they're holding everybody else's body, they're holding even terrifically aberrative people — anything that looks like a barrier, anyplace all up and down the bank, is so desirable that they're — caved them all in on themselves.

Now, one of the remedies for it is to have them just start running desire in the walls. You know, just desire for barriers, desire for barriers, desire for barriers. Fill them. That's part of Step I, though.

Now, one of the remedies for it is to have them just start running desire in the walls. You know, just desire for barriers, desire for barriers, desire for barriers. Fill them. That's part of Step I, though.

So, there you've got it.

So, there you've got it.

Okay.

Okay.