Well, part two of this Monday of whatever the date is.

Today, I'd like to take up with you in a little more detail the whole problem of "have" with relationship to time; with ARC with relationship to space, time and energy. And we're going to go into a bit of a flight of fancy with regard to the composition of the material universe.

Male voice: 17th.

Now, you're going to find something very peculiar here. You're studying something — you're studying something in order to be able to defeat it, not to be able to use it. You should be able to know — you should be able to know so well what happens to a perception recorded by the MEST body, you should be able to know so thoroughly the various activities of the energy after it has been recorded, and you should know so well the various types of aberrative incidents which have occurred on the whole track, that you need no notes. And you should take notes so that you can study your notes on this, but you should need no notes when you're auditing.

Is this the 17th? Monday the 17th.

And the time for you to learn this information, the time for you to learn this data, is right now. Just make up your mind, postulate that you need this information. Because you are not going to use this information except to defeat it. That's quite important. You are employing this data in a brand-new way, brand-new way in Scientology. You have all of the terrible liabilities of the MEST universe. You should have them at your fingertips and know how you can defeat them with Creative Processing, because you don't address them directly. You no longer address engrams, secondaries, facsimiles of any kind, including locks, or the ridges and flows, directly.

Continuing on with the basic anatomy here of Creative Processing, using this graph showing this parabola that goes from 40.0 down through 20.0 to 0.0 for the MEST universe, and from 40.0 down through 20.0 to 0.0 of the MEST universe of self, the interest of the auditor is to move the preclear over into a possession of his own creations and to enable the preclear to conserve, alter or destroy his own creations of matter, energy, space and time.

You address them indirectly, and actually, you should never have to specifically address and reduce, from here on, an engram or a secondary, except in this instance: the assist. A preclear very often becomes injured, and by directly addressing and running out that injury, he gets well. He's been injured, that's a specific type of recent injury.

I invite your attention very strongly to space and time. And if we had no definition for time this would be a very difficult feat. But we happen to have a definition for time. And the definition is havingness.

Now, actually, any one of you, expert in this line, could actually stand outside the receiving ward of a big emergency hospital, and you could raise the recovery rate by some undetermined percentage, but it would be raised possibly even 80 percent. It's just way up, what you could do. And that is the value of the assist: somebody burns his hand; somebody has been thrown out of a car, he has a concussion; somebody has just been operated on; there has just been a delivery, you want the mother to recover, you want her not to have the various liabilities (the postpartum liabilities, physiological or psychological) which attend a delivery — many of these things.

Now, let's look at 40.0. We have represented be, have and do as a triangle in past lectures. And certainly enough be, have and do is a triangle. In order to achieve a level of identity and accomplishment in action one has to have all three corners of this triangle. But this triangle is actually plottable on our Tone Scale. And we find 40.0 — on down for a ways from 40.0, clear on down actually to 0.0, but getting less and less and less and less and less — is be, which is space. So we have up here — at 40.0, we have be and there's lots of be at 40.0. In fact that's all there is — that's all there is.

Or this fellow has just been through a shocking experience, let us say, in the line of business, which has reduced him to practically nothing. Anything which is fresh — fresh, new. And that term fresh or new is quite relative, but I would say that it would come within the span of thirty days, and anything older than thirty days — that's quite an arbitrary figure there — anything older than thirty days, hit it with Creative Processing and Creative Processing only, no matter what your temptation is to hit it directly.

Now, there's a theoretical point above 40.0 where we have no be. We don't even have be. That's a theoretical point. Lord knows where that point is. Maybe at 1000.0. I don't know where that point is.

Now, let me emphasize that. There is a terrific tendency, an enormous tendency on the part of every mortal alive to address these things directly — address them directly. "Let's rush back in and conquer the physical universe!" That's just exactly how the preclear got into trouble: the conquest of MEST. That axiom that has to do with the conquest of MEST was never more valid. And he has to be restrained in the conquest of MEST until his ability to conquer MEST is, I would say offhand, maybe a hundred thousand times better than it is, or maybe a hundred million times better.

Now, we start down the line here and we get to 20.0. Now, above and below 20.0 we have energy. And by the way, this is true — this is true for both the right-hand side (the MEST universe) and the left-hand side (mest self). That's true on both parabolas, that at 20.0 you get energy as a peak. Now, of course, energy extends up there to maybe 38.0, and it extends down to — way down to almost 0.0. There's this energy but it's at a peak.

He will get to a point where he can — he knows that an electric light is on, and he can see the electric light on, outside of his body or inside of his body, and he will say, "Fine. My perceptics are in wonderful condition. Let's go out and conquer some more MEST!" And then you'll get ahold of your preclear the next session and he can't get out of his body.

You'd say 20.0, that's predominant energy. Predominant energy — not predominant beingness, not predominant time, not predominant space, .and not predominant have.

And you'll say, "My goodness. What's the matter with this preclear?" or "What's the matter with my processing?" And you set him down and you coax him this way and you work with him that way and you work with him, and he's getting harder to get out of his body than he was the first time.

So that is be up there and that be up there is space at 40.0, and this energy down here at 20.0, of course — 20.0 is action on the Tone Scale and we've got down here, do. 20.0 — optimum action point.

What's he done? He's gone out and he's hit the physical universe one way or the other, and he has said, "Oh, my! I failed." Now he's failed with magnitude, because he's being invalidated on the most invalidatable line, which is as a thetan directly. He can't blame it on the body; this is he that's failing.

Now, down here at 0.0 we have optimum have. Have. Why is it that you're always measuring time by MEST objects only? MEsT objects and their operation in space are the measure of time. It is where the sun is — where the sun is, where the clock hands are, where the shadow falls, how long it takes the water to run down a riverbed, how long it takes something to melt, such as a candle — these are all measures of time. It's how long, something or other to do with solids — "how long solids."

And so, don't worry about it. Your preclear is going to be able to perceive the MEST universe. He's going to be able to perceive it and find it and know what he is looking at and have horsepower to handle it, and all the rest of this. He's going to do very, very well, but not for quite a while, not for quite a while.

Now, it's "how long solids" in relation to space, gives you your measure of time so that just plain have itself doesn't tell you time to be used in action. But just plain have itself is action — pardon me — is time. Have is time. But when you start to get have, we get this solid object changing in space, we have to regard it from the point of 20.0 and we get doingness. You see. I mean, the measurement of time or change is doingness.

This person is so startled to find himself out of his body and find out he's actually free and that his activities are not censurable by Earth police, that he's perfectly willing to go in and change empires. Oh, he feels about 185 yards tall. And then about — oh, usually in less than an hour, he is about a millimeter tall — maybe a milli-millimeter. Does he feel small. He feels very tiny. And the reason for this is very simple: He's invalidated himself and by that invalidation he has keyed in the exact incidents which tell him he can't. Now he's keyed them in directly.

See, we've got a theoretical arbitrary point, and that's have. But have all by itself at 0.0 does not immediately include any higher point on the Tone Scale. It doesn't include any higher point on the Tone Scale — as itself. But the second we see it in relationship to higher points on the Tone Scale, we get our manifestations of change. But it's change of what? It's the change of a solid at 0.0 in a space, and space is predominantly 40.0. You see?

In the first place, flying around outside the body he immediately keys in all the reasons why he shouldn't fly around outside the body. Just that, you see? It also keys in all the conditions in which he's found himself outside before — namely, dead. He is dead. That's when he found himself out before, he's very dead.

Now, you get a have, an object at 0.0 altering in 40.0 and we get a do at 20.0. And your aspect of time is actually only confused, when it is confused, because you are viewing time from a higher point than an object. And therefore you're viewing an object's alteration in a space. And if you view an object's alteration in a space, it tells you two things immediately. One, you must be able to view — and I've never seen a dead man look at his wristwatch yet. And so, you see, he has no criterion. Now, it actually requires a judgment in order to behold time in terms of change.

Furthermore, he's going up against possibly his last set of instructions, which were "When you get out, you report back here. You report back right here! Not an inch either side, you report right to this spot. And this is the spot where we relieve you of all your woe and burdens, you poor fellow. And we're going to fix you up veeeery nicely and make you forget eeeeverything and even forget to remeeeember, and we're all so nice ..."

Now, you ask that chair over there what time it is and you're not going to get any answer at all. But you look at that chair in relationship to the action through which the chair has been and it'll tell you what time it is. We'll take that chair at the moment it came out of the factory — it's just been through the action of being made into a MEST object — and now we will take it ten years hence.

Well, he knows by the time you've processed him a short time this is a lot of bunk, but he's flying in the teeth of tremendous horsepower. And so he gets out and what he discovers is not only that he is invalidated but that he is evidently liable for all of the monkey business which he's gotten in the past. He's liable for all this again, and it keys him in.

And somebody will come along and they'll say the style — an idea, or something of the sort — tells you that chair's that old. But actually the main criterion which they will use is how badly is the chair off. That is, how much action has this chair undergone? And that gives you the chair telling time. But that's how much it was changed.

Now, therefore, the goal is — as outlined in Scientology 8-8008 — is the attainment of a theoretical (unattainable) infinity by the reduction of the apparent power of the MEST universe from infinity to a zero of apparent power. That doesn't mean you make the MEST universe disappear, you see? I mean, you just reduce its authority from infinity to zero. And you increase the power of the thetan as a thetan from zero to his infinity. It's a very simple statement, actually. It doesn't have anything in it that is quibbling. The reason I say theoretical, it's obviously not the goal of 8008 to actually smash all the planets together and blow them up. That's not its goal. But that is not what is meant by the infinity of the MEST universe. An infinity of the power, an infinity of the conviction the MEST universe carries. It is, right now, carrying an infinity of conviction. Now, as long as it carries that infinity of conviction, your preclear is going to try to hasten to agree with it again, and that's how he got bad off.

And get that viewpoint. The object is changed from a higher level only. It's not changed from its own level. It always takes a higher level to change an object. In other words, it takes space and doingness. It takes space and action to change the characteristics of an object.

He's going to get in there in an awful hurry and try to agree with it all over again, and he's in no condition to agree with the MEST universe — no condition at all to agree with it. He's not even in a condition to disagree with it. And we have found the bypassed circuit. Now, there was a method of bypassing the circuit.

Time, then, is the congealment of energy into and toward endurance as an object. And the greater the endurance of the object, the more time you have. It isn't the more time — now, you see, the only difficulty you would possibly have in understanding this is to persist in viewing an object as though time were another abstract. If you persisted in viewing an object as though time were another abstract and time was something else except this object, you would be making the mistake of applying your judgment in action and space to the object, and creating the abstract. See?

Now, you'll just have to take my word for it. Or if you care to lay out, yourself, a two- or three-months' research program and work on it for twelve or fifteen hours a day, you can get this data. But you will find out that maybe a minute's worth of Creative Processing is worth dozens and dozens of hours of direct processing.

The second that you are in space and it's in space and you say its action, capabilities and potentialities, movements and changes are so-and-so and so-and-so, and say, "That is the time of this chair" . . . When you say — when "That is the time of this chair," you have immediately said, "Space and energy with regard to chair," and then you've set up an abstract which nobody ever had a definition for, and you've said, "That abstract now is time."

Now, we'll call any process we have had in the past up to Standard Operating Procedure Issue 1, Theta Clearing — we will call those "direct processing." That whole span is direct processing.

So we would get, actually: time in action is energy. "Time in action" is what you mean by that abstract. Time in action. And that could also be "object in action is time" — what you understand by time. But the time that you're dealing with is always the object. It's just always the object. When you view it from space and energy levels, you say, "Well, of course, then time has space and energy in it."

And starting with Scientology 8-8008, we approach — not indirect processing — we approach Creative Processing. And it is an indirect approach, however, and attains the same thing as though it were indirect processing. But its goal is not indirection; its goal is actually what it says its goal is, and that is simply the increase of the thetan from a zero of his own universe to an infinity of his own universe. That's the goal of it.

Well, every time you say time has space and energy in it you're talking about something else. You're talking about the triangle again. You're talking about all three corners of it simultaneously. We've got to get a precise definition for one corner of this triangle in order to use this triangle. You see, one of the reasons why man is in terrible condition and why a thetan got in trouble in the first place, is he never got this thing straight — this thing I'm talking about right now. You have space, energy and object.

Now, it doesn't do that in order to get back at the MEST universe again! It is aimed toward the same goal, the identical goal of Advanced Procedure and Axioms. We have not changed our goal but we just know more about this goal. And naturally, when we knew a great deal about this goal, we had to change the modus operandi to get to that goal better, and what is that? To rehabilitate the self-determinism of the preclear. The duty of the auditor is the rehabilitation of the self-determinism of the preclear.

And what do we find here on this Tone Scale? We have all space with nothing happening in it. And then we have space with a motion, a created level in it, and that's energy. And then as more and more energy is created, and as space condenses, we get an object.

And what do we find the self-determinism of the preclear is? We find that it is the location of matter and energy in space and time, and the creation, conservation, alteration and destruction of time, space, matter and energy. And that is his self-determinism.

We come right on down the Tone Scale from total beingness without energy or objects, down toward total energy in space with energy, which, in congealing, we will get 0.0. If you look at it this way, well, you'll get the 0.0 of an object.

And a person's self-determinism is as good as he can create, conserve, alter or destroy energy, matter, space and time. Get that: destroy time, alter time, conserve time, start time; conserve space, alter space, destroy space, create space. That's self-determinism. And that consists also of, of course: destroy energy, create energy, alter energy, conserve energy; create matter, conserve matter, alter matter, destroy matter. There's his self-determinism.

I mean, if you look at it this way, is — supposing space could be condensed, and if you condensed space just so much it would manifest itself as energy, and if you condensed it just so much more it would manifest itself as an object. You see? I mean, you could look at it that way. That doesn't happen to be true, even vaguely true. But just to fix it in your minds, you can look at space at 40.0 having no energy in it, and then that it's less space at 20.0, but it's got energy in it, and then it's much less space at 0.0 but it is an object. An object is solidified energy.

Now, what's the broad definition of self-determinism? Now, it's just that, that I've been saying: create, conserve, alter or destroy matter, energy, space and time of any universe. And that matter, energy, space and time — do not even for an instant get it into your heads that the only matter, energy, space and time there is, is MEST. When we've used the word MEST it is a coined word: it means matter, energy, space and time — the material universe. It says so in all the texts; we can't alter it at this time.

Chemistry — when you burn coal in a fire, you're getting an object turning back into energy. Now, you go the other way around and we'll throw all of this energy — and there are actually methods of doing this — you throw all of this energy into a space and you condense it and what do you get? You get a solid.

So, now, let's say that there are other mests, but each one of these we will write parenthesis (mest) unparenthesis, designation letter. Whose mest? Whose universe? So when we just say capital M, capital E, capital S, capital T, we mean the material universe in which we are sitting at this moment. And when we talk about somebody else's universe — well, let's say we talk about Joe's universe — all right, we'll have parenthesis (small m-e-s-t) unparenthesis, Joe. That means that.

Now, an example of that is to fill up a chamber full of air and condense that air and you will get a block of frozen air if you condense it down. You reduce its space and you get an object. So if you want to see how much somebody has got his space reduced just find out how much objects he's got. It would theoretically be good therapy just to have somebody throw away a lot of things.

Now, we have to have this as a communications method, so in the future you'll occasionally hear me saying "(mest) self." That would mean your own universe. But when it's just MEST that means the material universe, because you're meeting on a common ground of the material universe. All right.

That's mostly the trouble you find with people is they have an awful trouble — a lot of trouble — getting rid of things. Well, they're having trouble getting rid of their aberrations, and you turn right around and you'll find out they also would not any more throw away an old pipe that they have had for twenty years and is in terrible condition and nobody would ever smoke it, and you'll find out they won't throw this away. Well, how do you expect them to get rid of something volatile way up the Tone Scale here, known as energy? They won't throw away an object.

Now, get this business about space — the creation of space. If a man cannot create space, he cannot be. And a man isn't to the direct degree that he cannot create space.

Now, they won't throw away an object, they're afraid to let objects out of their sight, they have great apprehensions about objects, and yet you ask them to step out of their bodies. Whoa, no! Hm-mm. No, they just can't do that. And the reason they can't do that is a very simple reason; they just got objects and no space.

Identity has to do with beingness, and that has to do with space. Now, that is sideslipped over into havingness, which is time, and also into doingness — doingness has to do with energy.

And what you've got to do is give them more space and less objects. And the way you get them — give them more space and less objects is simply to bring them up to the level of action on the subject, and you do that with Creative Processing. And you do it with Creative Processing by first making them get rid of very inconsequential objects which they mock up.

That can be written, by the way, in several ways: you can start at the top of this thing and you can say beingness, that's space. And then you come down the Tone Scale until you get to doingness, and that has some energy in it. And the second you get some energy of doingness, you start sliding on down to the solidification and timelessness of the energy. And when you get down to actual time spans, you're into heavy energy and "have." And that, of course, is MEST. So, you've got a vertical parallel which is exactly the same as the Tone Scale which you have been looking at for so long. That is a parallel Tone Scale.

And you make them mock up enough objects until they realize that they have an inflation in that item and can therefore spend it freely. And if you make them mock up those objects enough and often enough and enough of them they will get over the most parsimonious scarcity level on that particular object. Let's take this fellow, he can't get rid of objects; every time he tries to get rid of an object, he can't even see an object to get rid of.

So at 40.0, let's say we get beingness. And then at 20.0 we get optimum doingness, but optimum doingness results in subzero acquisitions as far as solidification is concerned, and that's the MEST universe and that also would be your own universe.

Why, what are you going to do with him? You're going to give him — get him to chuck away black pennies, or something. Or let's say he's got — he's holding on to black space. Well, he obviously wants some black space or he wouldn't be holding on to black space. And if he wants to hold on to black space he's trying to hold on to the last frugal remnants he has of 40.0, he thinks. He's holding on like grim — with great grimness to the last remnants of his own space. He hasn't got any more space. Therefore if he hasn't got any more space, he obviously has an object, you see? And if that object is obviously going to be confused with his body, so he's not going to move out.

All right. Let's see how this thing adds up. Let's see how this adds up, and if there are two routes — if there are two routes here. Now, I talked about this a long time ago, and this makes it possible for people to accuse me of saying, "Well, he knew it all the time." Maybe I did, and maybe I didn't, because I used to talk about the parabolic Tone Scale.

What do you get him to do? You get him to rig up and mock up black space until he can have more and more and more black space. And he gets more and more and more black space, and now hold on to more and more and more black space, and eventually you'll be able to get him to knock off a corner of it and throw it away. His case will be solved at that moment. If he can have enough black space to a point where he can be a spendthrift on the subject of black space . . . It's at least space, you understand. It hasn't got anything in it, but it's at least space.

The Tone Scale was a curve; it wasn't the way it looked. You look at it flatwise, and you find up here 40.0 and you find down here 0.0 and you find in the middle 20.0. All right. That's all very nice, but we're just looking on a plot against time and up this way, potential of survival.

Now, there's about your low level of ... Now, possibly this fellow has enormous potentials and he wouldn't be holding on to it so hard if he didn't have. He's probably below the level of most people who live, if he's doing that.

So, we're looking at time. Time goes that way on the Tone Scale, it goes over here to the right, and vertically it's just the survival potential in the individual. Up here at 40.0 you have immortality. Well, you look on it flatwise and that's all very well, but the second you turn this thing around on edge, you see something else.

All right. Now, let's look at this, then, and see this triangle very clearly for what it is — very clearly for what it is. The triangle of be, have, do should be actually be, do, have. They are interrelated; the object cannot exist without some space. The energy, actually — as is demonstrated by every electrical generator you ever tried to turn on, by every coal fire you ever tried to start burning without anything on the grate — the energy depends to some degree upon having space and having an object.

You turn this thing around on edge now, and you'll find out that it has a front and a back. And up here at 40.0 you have 40.0. And here you would have the two points, looking at them edgewise, which would be 20.0. And down here you would have 0.0 on both points.

Every time you've tried to start a fire without any fuel, and you just put some flame, not even with a match, inside a grate which isn't — hasn't any coal on it or any wood or any paper or anything, and you try to get a fire lighted there that will keep on burning, you just remind yourself at the time you're doing this that you're defying one of the primary laws with which we're dealing. And that primary law is, is in order to get some energy you've got to have an object.

And what do you know? What do you know? We can look at this thing sideways, and we see something else is occurring. And what's occurring? Well, let's say we take this right-hand parabola over here, and we take a look at this right-hand parabola and we have M-E-S-T, the MEST universe is the right hand of this parabola. And over here on the left-hand side of this parabola, we have what? (M-e-s-t) self.

Now, you can even create energy and compress it into an object, but that is essentially what you're doing. Create some energy and compress it into an object, then you can take that object and it'll again release some energy. Tricky, huh? That's actually the way you got coal.

Now, we could start at that 40.0 and take the left-hand parabola and get into a complete doingness in one's own universe, and ease it on down to 0.0 and we would have a solid universe. And one wouldn't be at that position on the Tone Scale. As you see by the dichotomies, one is always monitoring a lower point on the Tone Scale from a higher point on the Tone Scale. That is why, for instance, in arts, the artist tends down toward reason from aesthetics. The arts are higher on the Tone Scale than reason.

Here were a lot of fish and they were born and they were little tiny spores and they grew up. And they lived on chemicals — and they lived on chemicals and seawater and sunshine. And out of all of this space-energy sort of thing they were able to make an object which could be gotten ahold of and eaten, and so they had a little bit bigger fish, and it ate those little bit smaller fish.

You'll find out that people who are doing a lot of reasoning are always combating and trying to monitor emotion. They say, "That's the trouble with that fellow, is he's emotional. He doesn't think; he just emotes, that's all."

And then one day the whole world caved in on a whole bank of this sort of thing — crash! — and you got oil. And I wonder how you got that oil? It was very carefully manufactured out of space and energy. But it sure did get converted a lot of times before it got to be space and energy. It got converted quite a bit. But it did this cycle. Here it was, all this space and then it went through this conversion and many sublevels, and then one day it had to be fallen on and compressed, and then you got oil. You also got asphalt.

Now, you take some fellow who is very volatile, very emotional and so on, he'll say, "Those people are no good because they just sit around like a bunch of rocks. They don't emote." And what your emotional fellow is trying to do is trying to get an apathy case up to the point of where it'll be emotional; what your reasoning case is trying to do is to stop people from emoting and get them up to a level of reason, and what your artistic individual is trying to do is saying, "Why in the name of common sense do you have to sit around reasoning all the time? The best thing for you to do is to appreciate the beauties of life."

Now, here was a tree and the tree made chlorophyll from sunlight and the chemicals found in the ground and so on. And it grew and it grew and it grew and it grew, making object out of space, object out of space, object out of space. And then one day — one day, the world caved in on it and gave it a tremendous amount of pressure, condensing its space even more, and now they dig that up and you burn it and it's coal. That's typical of that.

All right. We watch this happening on the Tone Scale. In the same way, one has to be a point or two above.

But you're getting the energy back that was already made. You see, it took the space — here was practically nothing but solid beingness — I mean, empty beingness. It was the beingness of the material universe, and then gradually from other objects, and releasing and so on, we got energy, and the energy got condensed more and more and more and we finally got a solid object. And, boy, is that coal timeless. Whee! From your standpoint it lasts forever, but that means it's got time in it.

Now, let us say that one was in one's own universe and he was at 20.0, which would be a level of optimum action and so forth. He would naturally — if he were going to do any optimum action — he would have to have a lot of MEST in his own universe. That's his own MEST. He made it.

See, it just had these things — it's just reversed. You say the coal is timeless, meaning it lasts forever. Well, boy, something that lasts forever's sure got time. In fact, it is time. And this coal will sit around in the ground for millions of years, and you dig it up and leave it on the surface and it'll last for a long, long time. Except, of course, when you throw it on the grate and convert it into energy.

Now, he's operating from the top-level beingness and immortality point of 40.0, actually, but he has had to descend from that point of just "be" toward "have" in order to get time.

Now, if you take an engram bank that is solid matter — and it's practically solid, it's solid — the preclear is of course in the emotional state known as apathy. The reason he's in an apathy is a very, very good reason, is he hasn't got any energy and he hasn't got any space. And that's the definition of apathy.

Now, this is your ultimate in "have." The ultimate in "have" is 0.0, and boy, is there lots of time in 0.0. Ah, that stuff in 0.0, it is just hard-packed and it just goes on forever. Does it last! The dream of Egypt was eternity. Very nice line which a writer writing in I think "The Mummy's Foot" uses — a French writer — "The dream of Egypt was eternity." And sure enough, everything Egypt did was great, big, massive, enduring piles of MEST. You look at their pyramids and look at the Sphinx and look at the statues and look what they did to mummies and so on. They had an — what they did to bodies. It's fantastic how they wanted MEST and how solid that MEST was supposed to be.

All right. So this preclear is a solid lump of aberration. Now, how you going to — it'd be one thing if you could touch a match to him and expend him out as if he were a lump of coal. Well, it's true, he'll last forever — as what? As an object. But he's interested in living. He's interested in expanding his beingness. And therefore, by Creative Processing, you educate him, you might say, into realizing that his beingness can be expanded.

Well, you take a more volatile civilization today — let's take the civilization of England and the United States (more or less the same civilization, just as far as its goals and activities are concerned) and you don't find any construction man building anything to last. No. Skyscrapers, big modern buildings are going up and that sort of thing. They build those things to last twenty-five years in an optimum condition, and then deteriorate for another twenty-five and then come down.

Very fortunately for you, we are not dealing with mud. If we were dealing with mud we would never get anybody processed, except by touching a match to them. If man was exclusively and only a carbon-oxygen engine, if he was just that and no more, we'd be done for. He isn't.

That's volatile, isn't it? "This material," they say, "is going to change, everything is subject to change and we're going to have to tear this down." That's right at the moment they're building this great big structure, they're saying, "Well, now, let's see. Now when we go to tear this down . . ." Well, now, that shows that they're pretty much higher on the Tone Scale than the Ethiopian when, for instance, he was governing Egypt. The Ethiopian said, "This is going to endure forever, and we're never going to tear this down." And you look at his customs, you look at the other things and the limit of his understanding and so on, and boy, it was right there on the Tone Scale; it was just above 0.0, just above 0.0. But he built forever. The only way he could attain eternity was through MEST. He had no concept of individual immortality beyond MEST. That's why he made mummies. That's why he made such a mess out of his civilization.

He can create space, of all things. He can create energy, and the fellow is holding on to the object called time because he knows very well that he can't create any more space. He knows very well he's got to hold on to what he's got, and he can't even change it, because if you change something, you're liable to lose it, you see. And he can't even change this object. Why? Because he hasn't any energy. And so he's got to hold on to this object. And this object is his concept of what he has left, which isn't very much.

That civilization, by the way, under study, is one of the grimmer things to study. All right. Superstition — oh, all of the mugwalla-yap-yap that went on in dear old Egypt. Very low-toned, but it built forever. All right.

And now with Creative Processing, any way you can get into it, you demonstrate to him that he can create space and energy. And if he can create space, energy, objects . . . What would you think if you could take a preclear who was very bad off and you could actually make him condense energy enough to toss a ball out on the floor? And you had a white ivory ball sitting on the floor. And the dog would come in and sniff at the ball and knock it around the room and the preclear could see and feel.

Now, Egypt, of course, was not on this left-hand parabola even faintly. Egypt was over on the right-hand parabola and so is every individual over on the right-hand parabola, and the primary identification — which would be to say the primary confusion, the primary upset, the number one crossroads, the number one bundle of twine which a person is asked to take apart — is this one: which is the right-hand side of the parabola and which is the left-hand side of the parabola in the individual? Because this individual has been going on in the MEST universe creating space, creating time and then saying this was the MEST universe space and time. He's been gilding all of these things in the MEST universe with his own ambitions, his own dreams and his own goals. And he's been saying, "That's me. That's I. That's little me. I am just over here and I'm making a whole universe of my own."

You know, he wouldn't be very anxious to hold on to all this old junk that he's packed away. He just wouldn't be anxious about it at all. Why is he holding on to a body? It's the only one he's got — he knows.

Alexander the Great goes rushing out toward India and conquers the whole world for himself, and at thirty-three had conquered Alexander the Great. And the cycle is that people go out on this primary piece of nonsense, which is "All this matter, energy, space and time is mine. That's really my universe. And the lorries passing up and down the street are really my lorries, and I have an influence over all this." And they throw the pall of illusion — because it's a pall; it's a pallbearer's shroud for oneself — go out and keep gilding this material and saying, "Here I am and this is really I." And laying himself all over the MEST universe. And then he wonders one day why, with a dull thud, he doesn't have any more universe or any more body or any more anything. Because the MEST universe isn't a very good operating field, that's all; it's not rigged to be one. It's the — sort of the inevitable average of all illusion or something of the sort, and it's full of more booby traps.

Well, you start mocking up bodies, all you're doing is shaking at the foundations of the truth of the case, and that is that he can create space. And therefore he can create energy. And if he can create space and energy, he can condense them into objects and of course has time.

And one says then, "This is mine." Of course, what is he going to go toward? Horrible. He says, "This is mine." Of course that doesn't happen to be true. It's not his. And the second that he makes this confusion, he's all set.

Space without any object, of course, has no time in it. Believe me, that is real immortality. Space without an object. Down at the bottom of the scale an object without space — boy, has that thing got time. It'll last forever. It'll last forever. You've got the same condition. That's why they look circular. They're not circles.

Now, it has that liability, then, in that it destroys to the extent one extends into it. One gives it permission to destroy him by extending into it.

All right. And in the center of the thing is, you get objects — you can create space, and then create some energy, and then get an object — that's why the fellow has a moving time track of his own. How do you suppose he's ever kept abreast of this illusion called the physical universe? Very simple, it's very simple. Because he created the space and time which he was viewing.

Now, what's wrong with this left-hand side of the parabola over here? Yeah, there's something wrong with it. No audience. That's an awful mess. I mean, after you've got through building the most fantastically beautiful cathedrals, no matter how solid they were to . . . They might be terribly solid, by the way; you might be able to walk in and out of their front doors. You might have a complete population that was totally devoted to going to this cathedral and bowing down to the great god Joe. You might have all of that, but you would have a sneaking little idea in the back of your head all this time, "Well, of course, I made it." There isn't any dichotomy there operating. So quite normally, people will team up, and feel very bad when they don't team up, to make that left-hand parabola. And you'll find out home universe was usually accomplished by several people; several beings got together and made a home universe. And then you could have randomity, and one was a little bit left to chance.

He does so continuously hour after hour after hour after hour. He creates the space, he creates the energy, he creates the object. And he just keeps it up at exactly the regulated pace decreed by the physical universe. And next lecture immediately after this one — next half an hour — I'm going to tell you how that comes about.

Did you ever try to play chess with yourself? Now, that's a silly proposition there, because you know what you're thinking and you know what your next move will be. And what's your trick? You start pretending, "Well, now, let's see. I don't know what I am thinking about when I am the white side. Now, I don't know what I am thinking about when I am the black side." And so you keep fooling yourself all the time. Well, actually, that is a way you get randomity.

But here he is, creating like mad! He's creating space, he's creating energy, and he's making objects. He's making them all over the place. He's adding to these objects just in all directions. And if you don't believe that he is adding to the mass of existence, try and process a psychotic. Here is a fellow who is fresh out of all space, he's fresh out of all energy, and he doesn't have anything but time, and he's got time to such an extent he's got one lump of time and that one lump is one engram and he's running this thing off as life.

All right. Now, let's take a look here and see if there's any remedy. Is there any remedy for this — at all? Well, frankly, as long as one goes toward action and as long as one goes toward acquiring matter and so on, there isn't much remedy. You're subject on either side to these liabilities, and if you weren't subject on either side to these liabilities there wouldn't be any point in it.

He's just running this one platter, turning it, turning it, turning it, turning — that's all he's got; it's going to last forever. That's MEST universe immortality he's reached there. Well, you process this fellow for a little while and if you got outside of your body and took a look at your body — you'd take a look at your face, for instance, and you would find . . . And by the way, when you process, it's very amusing, you get the glee of insanity. He's pushing energy out, only it's irresponsibility and insanity.

Now, you would never have driven over onto the right-hand side if the left-hand side had been completely satisfactory. And the main thing wrong with the left-hand side is it's not defensible.

In other words, unplaced — it's unplaced, unidentified, at random energy. And it hits the individual who is processing him and it actually coats his skin. Actually does. He tries to get rid of this stuff and he'll feel the horrible emotion in this stuff. It's really kind of grim. And yet here's this creature who obviously has no space, no energy. And here he is, adding to your physical body's mass. Mm-hm. Fascinating. This fellow has lost pace with and he's no longer able to discern what he's creating.

One of these fine days somebody gets ahold of the wavelength of your universe, and you look out and you wonder what on earth is happening, and your stars all fall down. And that is this big, bungling truck of a thing, the MEST universe — somebody has bridged over into your universe, and that's very sad.

Now this sounds quite interesting to you. It sounds interesting to you to the degree of gawp. You just — I mean, what on earth? You mean to say that there — this heavy, solid universe which we see around us is being created by people? Continually? Boy, it sure is.

As a matter of fact, if you want a grief charge off of most preclears — if you want to process the real universe, you want a grief charge, there is a crossroads of grief. It's when the universe which they and maybe a few others built and so on, suddenly comes to pieces. And the MEST universe is an expanding universe, and their universe became part of the MEST universe. Just run the incident. You could even call this incident "When the stars all fell down." And they feel very bad about it, believe me. You'll find they're still stuck in it, most of them.

Now you see, there's several ways to prove things. And that is only a postulate, and when I say, "It sure is," that's for my money. Scientifically, we could say "apparently." "Apparently, according to the best evidences at hand, and some empirical evidence which has been offered and accumulated by a few undoubtedly emasculate and foolish fellows who apologize for their own beingness and existence very humbly, who keep their foul breath from your face — according to these people, it tends to demonstrate under certain circumstances that the MEST universe possibly is, one might say, begging your pardon, not to go too far about, is an illusion."

Now, when you see — continuing on this left- and right-hand side of the parabola, own universe and MEST universe — when you see this parabola before you here, looking at it edgewise, it should be — mean something to you that there's no connecting line between 0.0 of the right-hand parabola and 0.0 of the left-hand parabola. There's no connecting line between 20.0 of the right-hand parabola and 20.0 of the left-hand parabola, and that the only place they connect is at 40.0.

Well, I'm just saving you all that and I'm just saying the thing is an illusion, just bluntly. And one of the ways we prove that it's an illusion — and it isn't only just one way, but the most obvious way is — is what solves it? What solves it?

From 40.0, as one descends down the right-hand side of the parabola, one's own space becomes less and less and less and less and diminishes completely when one arrives at the MEST universe 0.0. One has no more space. He has just run fresh out of space; which is to say, he has no more identity, he has no more beingness for that particular cycle. Of course, he actually never goes — as a thetan, he never disappears at 0.0, but he disappears as an individual at 0.0.

Well, let's look at it just bluntly, and let's say we want to do something with a piece of MEST. Well, we have to get an idea, don't we? And we have to figure out a piece of space for the idea to go in and we get the MEST together and it matches together, and it works as well as we get an idea about it.

And this is why you have such a tremendous mask over one's whole track past, is the beingness of an individual in the right-hand side gets tied to an identity. And this identity, whenever it disappears, one no longer has. And if one no longer has, then one's identity is gone. And the ballup on the whole track is simply that one is still trying, still has impulses toward his whole track identities, with absolutely nothing with which to prove it. So he has no time on the whole track once he's dead. But he has time as long as he's in close proximity to some MEST object or some MEST of one sort or another, such as a body.

Well, that's funny, isn't it? Well, you're going to make a tape recorder, we have to get a lot of ideas and there's a lot of other people had ideas and they all kind of go together and the next thing you know we've got a tape recorder and if everybody did it well the tape recorder worked. And if they didn't do it all well, it doesn't work.

Just a minor example, a body. A body is nowhere near as important as you think it is in connecting a person up to an identity. A person could just as easily connect himself up to an identity in the Nelson Monument down here. A person could say, "Well, let's see, I'm the Nelson Monument. That's who I am." And he could be possibly very satisfied with being the Nelson Monument, except that — only trouble is the Nelson Monument can't produce very much action: it can't sign any checks, it can't flirt with anybody, or something of the sort.

And then it has to do with whether or not it's handled as an idea, and .. . In other words, here you are just pouring this terrific creative effort continually — create, create, create, create, create, create — and busily handling these pieces of MEST, handling them. And you know you're handling them; you know very well you're handling them. You know very well they exist. How do you know they exist? Because you can touch them. You can bang one piece of MEST against another piece of MEST and know they're banged together.

And now, he might try to work this problem out until Nelson could tip his hat or something, but he'd want action, and that's the trouble with being the Nelson Monument — it's immobile.

In Creative Processing, one of the earliest steps you will reach with your preclear is getting him to take one piece of imagined object and one piece of imagined object, and have them bang together, and feel the bang of their meeting, and hear them bang. And if he can't hear them bang very well have him put some air between the objects and himself — it conducts the sound better.

This is solved most easily by becoming the god of a wood. Hence we find Frazer's Golden Bough stressing and talking about and belaboring and mauling around and falling over and going back and forth over endlessly this whole project of a god in a wood. That's actually what The Golden Bough is all about, just ad nauseam for God knows how long. And a lot of it's very pretty, but the trouble with it is it's got an orientation point which is a limited orientation point. If he'd taken just a little bit wider orientation point, he'd have been better off.

Now, there, in other words, is the evidence of the reality of the real universe blowing up in smoke. The other thing is, is the more real people think it is, the less well they are. And that's its awfulest damnation — the more real they think it is. And the other thing is, is that Creative Processing works on a ratio of just thousands to one in terms of time. I mean, Creative Processing works right now and direct MEsT Processing is long and arduous.

Now, I'm not talking about sections of The Golden Bough, I'm talking about the overall work called The Golden Bough would have oriented much better if it hadn't been so limited in scope.

Now, continuing this on a breakdown of the Tone Scale with regard to be, do and have, on the — November the 17th — we have here 20.0, then, is experience, isn't it? That's where experience is. Experience is made up of objects and being, and that's experience. And midpoint between total being and total object would be an experience.

And the limitation of its scope is simply the King of the Wood at Numa, that's — it's actually its total scope. He keeps trying to trace around, and why is it that you have somebody going out and being the priest-king of this little stretch of wood, and he's priest-king until somebody comes along and slays him, and so on.

Male voice: Yes.

Well, now, that's a MEST body version of it, but what is his stress? He starts talking about that just as though he were going to talk about people, and then spends the rest of the time talking about gods. And he's talking about gods of the wood, gods of the wood. And that's the easiest thing to become, is to become a patron saint of a small area of MEST universe space as a thetan, and that is very easy to become.

Now, what do we have there at 20.0? Then we have energy. This energy, we have seen, can become congealed into an object. All right, if it can become congealed into an object, what is an engram? An engram is energy which has stayed in suspension in a heavy state and which is tending to become an object.

And one could fly around, then, and people would come into this wood. And the animals in the wood would be inviolate. One could protect this wood. Various people came into the woods, would see strange things and have strange sensations and dreams when they slept under the trees, and that sort of thing. And actually, that provides considerable randomity, as well as — well, it bucks one up, more or less, to have people coming for hundreds of miles just to light a lamp on one's altar. That is pleasant — good business.

The command power of an object over beingness is great, not small. And an object can have command power to the direct degree that it exists and is unknown. Now, that's a horrible thing, isn't it? If it has a communication line, it could be said to exist for the being. That thing which has no communication line to the being actually doesn't exist for the being.

Now, of course, one can be a god of a small place just as long as he isn't interfered with too much by somebody else who wants to be god of that same small place. And then we could get into a dreadful fuss and too much randomity enters immediately.

So we have a definition for existence. Those things exist with which you can communicate. If you can't communicate with something — you know, communication is perceive, the various perceptions and so forth — if you can't in some fashion or other communicate with something, it doesn't exist. Is that right?

So, this is Frazer's Golden Bough, and its fixation upon this one point.

For instance, right out here in the middle of the street there could be there a gorgeous statue by Praxiteles, just beautiful, and it could occupy the whole street, but if nobody could communicate with it in any way, shape or form, lorries could drive on through it. It would not exist for you.

Frazer provides, oddly enough — writing just on and on and on — provides you, if you want to read it, an abridged or a total edition, with enormous data, which he's writing about with no understanding at all. He does a fabulous job of misunderstanding his own data. But his data is good and the man is very able as a writer. He keeps orienting it around MEST bodies, and what it is is the only really easy solution a thetan ever had here on Earth: to be Diana, Artemis, or something of the sort, go around and spread legends about oneself, and so on. Actually interfere with, or fool around with, MEST bodies, and it's . . . You see, it's no joke, no joke.

And as a matter of fact, I said it was there, but you can't communicate with it, so therefore it doesn't exist. But the second I say it's there, your imagination kind of flicks at it and kind of sees that there you've started a communication of energy with an object which didn't exist but could be concentrated upon to exist.

You take the legend that has to do with a mad bull. All right. They say, "All of a sudden, this bull was sent by Poseidon, and here went Poseidon, and here went the bull. And the bull specifically chose out of the crowd one individual and gored him, and this was the individual who had said that Poseidon was no good." Why sure, how easy. Why not?

Mystic practice is to a large degree devoted toward concentration to such a degree and extent that an object takes on real existence for others besides that person perceiving. That is not a complete statement of mysticism, but it has as one of its primary things that it crosses the border there with magic. It's concentration upon a nonexistence to create an existence, or concentration upon an existence to create a nonexistence.

All you have to do is take an animal, and an animal is very easy to direct, and you just keep him running around and getting irritated and upset until he finally gores the person you're trying to get even with. I mean, we're dealing with factual material when we're dealing with the mythologies. It's very factual. And it's the troubles thetans get into.

Now, if you were to concentrate upon and agree upon the existence of a spirit, and you concentrated and agreed and agreed and concentrated and concentrated and agreed, you'd get a spirit. You bet your life. Of course you'd have various opinions about what this spirit was doing, but you would have a spirit. There's no doubt about that. It would come floating around and so on.

Now, they get into this trouble for one reason only, is they insist on playing around with the real universe. And they keep playing around with the real universe and playing around with the real universe until eventually they come into a bad state known as Homo sapiens. Or maybe in some other planet we have people like crocodiles, or maybe we have this or we have that.

Now, what's truth, then? If all these things take place, then what's truth? Well, truth is that thing with which we can all communicate — with which we can all communicate. And the degree of truth is that degree of agreement we can attain. So the biggest truth there is, is an object. You get that? There's less truth in energy than in objects, and no truth at all in beingness.

And oddly enough, if you want to fool around with the whole track, you will find in some earlier spirals and so on, your preclear has been all sorts of strange beings. Oh, they're really strange beings. He has, to this day, an aversion for those beings.

And sure enough, you get an ultimate beingness and a person can shift his beingness all over the place, boy, does he vary. If he can shift his beingness all over the place — therefore you couldn't say that he could truly exist. There is no truth in his existence because he's so darn changeable. What we want in truth is consistency, and that's that.

Why does he have an aversion for the being which he's been? Because the being he has been has trapped him. And he has been degraded. He has instantly lost caste the moment he was trapped.

So you get people from 4.0 down are starting to get worried about agreeing. They're starting to get very worried about agreeing, so they're starting to get very worried about truth. And the lower they go, the more worried they are about truth and the further they're departing from a flexibility and the more they are approaching a solidity. And when they've all agreed it's true, they're dead. That is the ultimate in truth. So what's truth? All truth is relative.

You could probably take an E-Meter and go down the list with an E-Meter and very nicely find, as you went down the line, all the animals or types of animal forms — including man, who is after all, an animal. Boy, don't for a moment mess up on that one, don't miss on it. Man is an animal! Homo sapiens, as we understand him, is a specialized animal that seems to be more capable — probably because of manual dexterity — of trapping thetans than the other animals on this planet only. He's nothing very special as far as an animal form is concerned. He is to some slight degree decorative, more decorative, perhaps, than some other animal forms, such as a beetle, which is an insect form. But there's not much difference.

Now, what we're studying is the anatomy of and the laws of agreement. If we are studying the anatomy of and the laws of agreement, we are then studying that thing on which we have all agreed! Get that. So we're studying the point of common meeting ground all the way on the track. We're studying agreement and the various manifestations of agreement, and we're not studying anything else. Beyond that point we have tremendous flexibility, enormous flexibility. And to drive home what we have agreed upon, I've given you these graphs. That is a viewpoint on this agreement.

Now, on other planets, other animal forms possibly possess this same potential of trapping the thetan as otherwise. But man without a thetan is pretty stupid. All he is, is a genetic entity that's collected enough ridges to be solid in time. That's all he is. And boy, if you want to know how bad off the genetic entity is, how bad off do you think a being would be that had enough ridges surrounding him, enough multiplying, self-perpetuating ridges surrounding him, to be solid matter?

Now, you can see these and, by understanding the anatomy of this agreement, you are understanding the agreement itself. How did the agreement come apart? How does it come apart? Well, by understanding the anatomy of it and undoing it as an agreement. If you undo it as an agreement, you make your preclear well. And if you make him agree 100 percent, you kill him.

Now, you know how bad off a fellow is who has a thick ridge in front of his face as a thetan. He's bad off, see? How bad off is one of these fellows that has one of these ethereal back ridges that keeps appearing all the time and so forth? He's pretty bad off. He gets caught in these terrific currents.

And that is primarily why some of the psychotherapies used in the past not only did not work but made people terribly dependent upon the psychotherapist and did not make the person well. Now, anybody who has been in that field won't argue with me too much about that, but they'll say, "At least we-got his mind quieted down and he ceased to be a wide menace to the society around him." Well, that's true, that's true. And that was their aim and goal.

Well then, how bad off do you think a being would be who is solid matter all around him? Well, that's how bad off a genetic entity is — pretty bad.

Well, now, don't get your aim and goal mixed up with it and therefore don't mix up what you're doing with psychotherapy, because you're going on an opposite direction. You're not interested in psychotherapy; you're interested in these people from an anatomy of agreement.

Now, your tendency of your thetan is to get into the body and then start solidifying with these ridges; because he's in one place, one time-space location, he has no space of his own.

Now, what is the agreement? The story of the agreement was this: is once upon a time the individual had his own space in which he had his own energy with which he had therefore his own objects. As the objects changed, he marked time. And he had a time track, then, for his own space and energy. Right? And he said, "This is all ours or all mine." He could influence it and he could start any of these impulses into existence that he cared to, he could start new energy into existence, and he could let his aesthetic .. .

As I was going to say, if you took all of these animal forms of which you could think, you'd start getting bops on them, of one kind or another, and you would all of a sudden discover that your thetan had been other forms. It's very, very amusing sometimes. It does not assault one's credulity. What assaults one's credulity is that a thetan would have too much to do with this sort of thing — that assaults one's credulity.

And also, get this: the behavior pattern and the laws — what he called natural laws for his own universe just reigned supreme. Whether they were workable natural laws or not in this universe has no bearing upon it. For instance, he might have had a natural law on which everybody that he made in his universe agreed implicitly, and that is the fact that every time you go to a railroad station, you get a new hat. And that was a natural law, and that's how the people got new hats in his universe. They went to the railroad station and at that moment a new hat would appear.

But what he has become, here and there, is very, very idiotic. And it sounds very strange to you. This thetan, in this particular strata which is made up of these beings with long tails, which they encase in silk, and they all wear golden horns and so on. He jumps on his unicycle and goes putt-putting off down the big forty-pass, cloverleaf-type highway. I mean, you find some funny things, very funny things.

He might have said, "Household pets which can fly at 20,000 feet are acceptable household pets. But household pets which are on the ground are not acceptable household pets." And that would have been a natural law, and all kinds of things would have worked out from this. All you have to have to have something logical, you see, is you lay down an arbitrary and then you proceed from this arbitrary in a logical sequence of explanation.

Male voice: Do you mean thetawise or genetic?-

Now, there are some characters in books — I think Pangloss is a wonderful example of this, in Voltaire's Candide. He can explain everything to be exactly right and for the best. The doggonedest, weird coincidences and horrible circumstances all figure out in the long run for the best.

Oh, geneticwise. This fellow's gotten trapped by this being. He thinks he's one of these beings, and this being, let us say, is — most resembles the Earth animal of a flying crocodile! And here you have this flying crocodile wearing golden horns, which are artificial, and his tail beautifully encased on silk, jumping on a monocycle and going off down this forty-pass highway. I mean, it's just . . . Oh, no! You look at this sort of thing and you say, "No wonder this guy is just a little bit disoriented." Yeah, it stretches the limits in all directions as to what kind of a body he can become.

Now, undoubtedly in Pangloss's universe, the natural law was "Everything works out for the best." Now, whether or not this becomes a workable universe or not all depends on what you mean by a workable universe. Was it interesting? That would be its highest level of workability. Was it interesting? Because if it was interesting, there'd be motion in it. Boy, would there be randomity.

But it is not important what kind of a body he can become; what is important is that he can become a body! And the mechanism of how he becomes a body is important. And once you solve the mechanism of how he becomes a body, you solve his becoming a body and he gets out of that.

Now, in other words, what we're studying here is how you can composite a universe and what comes down on an inevitable average of agreement about universes, and this is what happens about universes. Now, that's what you're studying. And when you're studying the MEST universe you're studying a certain parade of agreements — a parade of agreements.

Now, the superstition — you take a tremendous electronic society, you wouldn't expect to find it all full of superstition. And yet you find psychiatric — the psychiatric treatment of that society is something like electric shock or the prefrontal lobotomy, and that there's all sorts of things that you have to observe.

You're studying a series of postulates which resolve our total agreement with this wall. And what you're studying to do, is to undo the grip of this series of agreements upon the individual, when that series of agreements have upon the individual produced an effect which is painful or holds too much force or holds him too much imprisoned, and he is an ineffective individual. He's ineffective because he has agreed too much too hard.

Supposing the engineer running this enormous machine is expected to shut off the machine at 10:01 A.M. every day and spread his prayer rug and bow five times to the south by north. Yeah, that would be ridiculous, wouldn't it? And yet that is the level of superstition on the line — it's very heavy. .They didn't know how they got there. They didn't know what was happening to them, and the resultant and consequential confusion is fantastic.

And actually, what is the final end of agreement in the MEST universe? Death. It's a MEST universe, isn't it? It's trying to solidify into objects. Well, all right. You don't want any animate objects in this universe. Guy tries to get too animate in this universe, boy, does he get it.

If you want to know how fantastic it is, a small sample of it is Greek mythology. That's a very small sample of the adventures of the gods and goddesses, and where are those Greek gods today? Where are they today? Well, one of them is probably busy going down a line of wolves, and another one is probably down at Woolworth's. Athena is probably selling crockery at the five-and-dime, and so on. How did they get that way, and how would you spring them? Well, you wouldn't spring them by doing anything about the right-hand track, because the right-hand part of this parabola has a saturation point. I don't know what that saturation point of processing is, but it's high — but you will reach the saturation point.

So you're studying this anatomy, and that we call, for this universe, truth. We're not studying something that would be true for your universe, in terms of that. But we do know this: that when you do agree to that degree on those lines, then this kind of logic called "science" results. And that is the truth of science.

The theoretical end of processing out the right-hand track is given in Advanced Procedures and Axioms, I think, and is certainly part of the lectures of that period, back in the dark ages. And it says that if — you mustn't process out all of the efforts and counter-efforts which you find in the preclear. I think it says that in the book itself, because this has as its reductio ad absurdum, is the preclear will go poof! Now, you would free the genetic entity if you did that. But actually — mind this, mind this — it's not impossible. It's not impossible, but it would take some very close work on your part to keep the body running long enough to become processed out of existence. But that's what it is. You would process the thetan free by processing the genetic entity free, and the body would disappear. That's the reductio ad absurdum of processing the right-hand track.

Now, you can accept these tenets or not, on a philosophic line. You are only trying to study these things at the moment on the therapeutic line. And the odd part of it is, is every time you can break an agreement between the preclear and the MEST universe, he's that much better. And when you fail to break the agreement between the preclear and the MEST universe, he's worse.

So, there's a saturation point.

So, when you get a preclear out of his body and you say, "Now, you see that wall?"

Now, somewhere up the line you get out enough efforts and counter-efforts so that your being is in pretty good shape. He's in wonderful shape for a MEST being, just gorgeous. But you've gotten up to a point where if you process him from there on, he's going to get into worse shape. And the reason he's going to get into worse shape is because essential parts of him is going to start disappearing. And I don't mean that that is just theoretical! That has been done on the couch! That has occurred. The saturation point lies somewhere between five hundred and two thousand hours. That's a pretty close bracket, by the way, that's a fairly accurate statement. I mean, you could say — when you take in terms of the number of lives a person has lived, you say you reach a saturation point somewhere between five thousand — five hundred and two thousand hours, that's an interesting datum for you.

And he says, "What wall?"

Why? Because it has been tested. That datum isn't just a guess. I know when they start reaching the saturation point. Of course, five hundred hours is a ghastly number of hours of processing. That is terrific.

And you say, "Oh-oh, you ought to have agreed." And finally he does force himself and convince himself, outside the body, that he's seeing the wall, he finds himself back in the body again.

I don't know, there was some joker ... There's always a lunatic fringe hanging around Dianetics or Scientology, around any field. There's a lunatic fringe around physics, for instance; there's one around chemistry.

Why does this occur? It's because you've made him agree on the illusion which you have made him escape from. And then the second that you get him back into the Tone Scale level, the low Tone Scale level of being in agreement again, the agreement is effectively and effectually the agreement also to be in a body, so he's back in the body again and can't get out.

Now, one of this lunatic fringe wrote in a book, a great authoritative book, which he . . . He was modifying everything. I think his big change for the whole subject was you didn't say "Come up to present time." You said, "Be aware of your environment," which, by the way, was standard procedure that he had nothing to do about whatsoever at the time he left the Foundation. So that he had invented this, and this was his claim to fame. He's really a crackpot, this guy. I won't mention any names, but gee, he's nuts.

What you did when you sprung him was give him his own space. And there's no sense in railing at him then, if he has his own space, that he doesn't put the MEST universe in it. If he's got his own space and he puts the MEST universe in it, why, it's not his space anymore, is it? So if it's not his space anymore, he goes back into the body, boom!

Anyway, he says he has had eighteen hundred hours of processing and he's going on being processed. Well, you add it up, by the way, and between the time he heard of Dianetics and the time he wrote the book and the book was published, and if you added this up, you'd have found out that he would have been on the couch something like eight hours a day, seven days a week, to have gotten eighteen hundred hours of processing. That's an awful lot of hours of processing. It's just too many, by an awful long ways.

You might ask me at this time, "Then is it true that he's outside his body?" Yes, sir — because space is space! And MEST "real universe," agreed-upon universe happens to be just one variety of space. And get off of this level of a terrific concentration on the MEST universe being the only universe, because that is not all the space there is, that is not all the energy there is.

And he doesn't bother to say what kind of processing, but it happened to his ... He had a girl who was very weak in the wits. And this girl would sit there and say, "Well, what do you want to run, dear?"

It's something like — you've got this granary full of grain, and it's all yours. And there's one little drop of grain — one little piece of grain has gotten out and it's way over in another field someplace. And it's like, if you keep auditing, in trying to get a person just to get back into that groove — agreement, back into the groove of agreement, back into the groove of agreement again, it's like you being — just neglecting this silo, this beautiful billions and quadrillions of grains, just neglecting that and spending all of your time over here in this other field someplace trying to say, "Now, don't you see that grain?"

And he would say, "Oh, I think I will run so-and-so."

And the fellow says, "I can't see that grain."

And she would say, "Well, all right, dear. Go ahead and run it."

"Well, now, you better see that grain."

And he would lie there and philosophize and think about it for a while and so forth, and a few hours later, why, he would say, "Well, I've finally run that." And she would say, "Well, that's fine, dear."

And it's just as though you're saying, "Well, now, that's all the grain there is." Why don't you take him over and let him go over and look in that — look in the big bin? There's not only his time and space, but he could theoretically originate an infinity of times and spaces himself. In other words, an infinity of spaces which, through energy, he can put objects into. He can do that to infinity. And boy, is he free when he starts being able to do that. And he's as free as he's able to do that and no freer.

And this was "processing."

Now, let's see if there's any corroborative material on this. Let's look down the line and see if there is any side data on this which is good to have. Can you take this being and treat him in other ways and produce this same manifestation?

Well, if he'd only keep this up, if he'd only keep this up, if he would really process efforts and counter-efforts for that length of time — not just a few engrams, but if he'd process efforts and counter-efforts for eighteen hundred hours — he wouldn't be able to function, probably, as a body. Now, that is the liability which is up the line.

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. We can directly treat an individual so as to produce a state of complete agreement which borders upon complete death. And we find that we can get him to agree so heavily that he's in a state of death. And we can get him to agree himself to death, in other words. And the only way we can cure or alleviate this is to get him to disagree himself back into being alive. Now, you get those differences; those are quite important as differences.

This data is quite new, simply because it takes such a tremendous number of hours — it's a tremendous number of months and years to run up a total of processing that high — that it is not data that is readily available.

What is this technique? It's known as hypnotism. Now, the way you hypnotize somebody is you get him into communication too heavily. In other words, you get him into a concentrated communication channel. This is saying, "You make the same kind of energy I'm making here, fellow." You've got him to agree on your energy level. The way you do that is hold up a bright object in front of him or something of this sort, or get him to concentrate upon your eye.

We find here and there that enough results are in to show that there's an optimum point of processing, and at that point you stop — when you're using effort or facsimile direct processing. So there's a finite limit, and that is why — completely aside from the invention of the technique itself and a further understanding of it — that is why we're junking direct processing, except in use in an assist. That's why we're junking it. It's not that you would ever process anybody two or three hundred hours!

Or you want to mesmerize him, same thing. You reach over and stroke his arms across certain areas and you stroke them rhythmically enough until his body goes into vibration with your determinism at the level of stroking. That's mesmerism. It produces different effects: one puts the body in complete rapport and the other puts the energy manufacturing unit in complete rapport.

Once in a while around here in England there is somebody that's had two hundred hours on the couch, some of them had two-fifty, some of them had three hundred in the last couple of years. And that's not very many hours of processing, and they're not even close up to the danger zone. There is no danger zone there, really, because there isn't any danger zone, really, for the thetan just because he's gotten killed off or something. It's whether or not this individual is better off and has a clearer understanding.

All right. You do this with sight, you can do this with touch, you can do this with anything. You get him to communicate, communicate. Well, communication, as we know, is agreement — A-R-C. ARC is a — maintains its own level. C and R maintain the same level as affinity, and agreement — which of course is reality — agreement maintains the same level as affinity and communication. So that's how you get him to agree. You come in sideways on that triangle, and you use C to get him into an A. Use C to get him into an agreement.

All right. Now, let's look at this, then, as a process and find out what we're doing. We're trying to cross the time-honored, well-known abyss. You know the abyss? Well, the abyss is something that people have been talking about for an awful long time, and everybody is very well aware of the fact that there's an abyss.

All right. You communicate, communicate, communicate, communicate, and you got him there. Okay, now you've got him real good. And you — now you get him to work it until he is no longer convinced that he controls his motor centers. Now, you get him to agree, then, that you control his motor centers. Then you get to agree so — he's agreeing, really, that it's your body. And you get him to agree that it's — his body is yours.

Actually, the abyss can fit almost any analogy of accomplishment. It's very nice, it's a very neat thing, and it refers specifically to a whole track incident. There is a whole track incident known as the Abyss. If you throw the people into the darkness — you invent yourself a chasm or you have a chasm or something of the sort, and people you don't like, you pitch them in. That's on the whole track. You'll find that with an E-Meter. Preclears get very upset. There's probably more overt acts performed in the Abyss than in anything else. There's masses of them. Real volume! Two, three thousand beings have been pitched over into a dark chasm someplace or another; it was the favorite method of getting rid of one's enemies. Well, that's way back, way back on the track. All right.

Now, the way you do this is you give his body commands in certain ways and eventually his arms will raise and lower without any consultation with him, and he'll be quite surprised to see his arms rise and drop and twist around and go into circles and his body walk around at your command when it won't at his.

But we'll use again the analogy of the abyss. We find out that people are trying to get from a — one state to another state, a better state, and we find out that intervening between the two is a black abyss. All right.

All right. That's a physiological rapport for action. That's at 20.0; you got him, now, at 20.0. There's a sort of — right at the beginning of hypnotism — a merging of beingness, and of course, you've got his space, now. You're just taking this character over; you're getting him to agree 100 percent.

Gee, it'd be dreadful, it would just be gruesomely dreadful if we had to actually cross this abyss. But I'll give you a technique — I'll give you a technique for directly crossing the abyss.

Now, you've got him into this state. What happens now? His — boy, mark this one — his thoughts and ability to create cease to be an ability to agree with the real universe, and become an ability to agree with your illusions, so that nothing seems incredible to him, so long as you say so.

Where is the abyss in the first place? The abyss is at 40.0. The only connecting point, really. The only real connecting point between MEST universe and mest universe self is at 40.0. The matter which you would make and the matter which the MEST universe would make — entirely different.

Now, you can have this fellow have a kangaroo on his right palm and have it jump over into his left palm. You can put this fellow into any kind of clothing. He will be able to see this clothing; he'll be able to feel it. Now, I realize that man has so revolted from this sort of thing that very often hypnotism to the casual observer or the general listener has no great level of reality. I mean, it doesn't exist; nothing like this could exist.

Now, somebody somewhere along the line got the wavelength of any universe you might have had and blew it. You collided, in other words, with the MEST universe, but that doesn't say there was a bridge between those two points. It said there's some kind of an artificial step up or conduit or something of the sort was done there in order to make a clash between these two universes.

Oh, yes. And it is about the most vicious aberrator there is. Eventually, even the hypnotist comes to you and says, "Oh, please, help me out," because he's in terrible shape. What's happened is, is he has overcome the self-determinism of so many people and has changed it so often that he has shaken his own abilities to pieces.

Well, the point of that clash is chaos and confusion. And if you want to take it apart vector by vector, you've got lots of time. There is no end to the amount of time you would have if you started taking it apart erg by erg of energy, taking that smash apart, because you've laid locks on it ever since.

He is then in a monitoring capacity. And why did it shake him to pieces? Because it keyed him in. It's an overt act; it says "agree, agree, agree, agree, agree," and finally he finds himself agreeing, agreeing, agreeing, way back on the whole track, and there he goes. And he's in a bad way!.

Every time you've had a dream or a hope or a desire or a plan in the MEST universe, you've laid a lock on the smash of your own universe. Horrible, huh? And every time the MEST universe has kicked you in the teeth and has smashed your dreams, hopes and plans, and hasn't done exactly what you thought it should do, it laid a lock on this one. So, is that a tangled mess!

If you ever get a hypnotist and this fellow (you all of a sudden say — well, he's a professional hypnotist or something of the sort) — well, for heaven's sakes, do something immediately about the hypnotism, because you aren't going to get anyplace. And do it on an overt act level. Just process it as such, or process it creatively in some fashion or other showing him taking over the control of various other things.

Well, there's no real bridge between those two points so far as processing is concerned. There's a collision between the two points and it's way down about 0.0. And you could say that there is a connector across on the 0.0 circuit, but it's not a bridge; it can't be crossed there. I say "it can't be crossed there" — that's a very forthright statement and I shouldn't make a forthright statement because there's only been a couple, three attempts to cross there at that point.

What'd he do? He made his own universe inside the MEST universe and made a universe which couldn't exist and it's convinced him completely of the nonexistence of his own universe. Oh, he gets — you can play this thing eighty ways from center and you still get an aberrated hypnotist.

And of course, it's something like somebody trying to discover — to sail to Asia, and we could pull a Columbus and keep writing everybody and say, "We're in Asia. We're in Asia. We're in Asia," meantime with two of the doggonedest biggest continents and the golblamedest biggest ocean standing between us and Asia. We could go on saying that and pretending that that 0.0 to 0.0 bridge here — pretending it wasn't there and that it was crossable. But it's a mess of confusion. It's an awful mess of confusion. Until we get a MEST cutter and maybe a couple of MEST torches invented or something of the sort, it's not crossable at that point.

But what happens to the patient? Some of the earliest stuff written on hypnotism said, "Hypnotism is serviceable as a therapy except that it creates an enormous level of dependency on the .part of the patient for the operator." And that is standard in text after text after text up through the last hundred years on the subject of hypnotism. No good. No good.

But it is crossable at 40.0. But again at 40.0, and nearabouts to 40.0, you have a terrific liability. They're both the same thing at 40.0. That says, "What is all space for the MEST universe and what is all space for your own universe is an all-space thing." And you try to go through that and you try to shift over to be sure of what is all-space MEST, all-space self mest, and rrrrrr! Because space is space. And if there is nothing in it to identify it, you have an awful time.

Now, you'll tell somebody once in a while — you tell somebody, "You won't stutter anymore, now, will you? Now, you agree that you won't stutter." It's just agree, agree, agree, agree, agree, agree. It's just wonderful. That's all, anything — you get him to agree on little things, then you get him to agree on big things. "Now, you won't stutter anymore, will you?"

Now, if you do this little process, you'll see what I'm talking about. Cook up your own black space that is empty and has no sensation in it, and be sure it's your own space.

Fellow says, "No, all right."

Now, very possibly there is a way to solve that, but it's making space identify itself by space without any havingness and without any doingness. It's just space. And you will get the doggonedest sensation of beingness. For a little while, boy, you'll just be like mad, and then you'll say, "Well, is this really my space?" And then, of course, you'll not-be like mad, because you'll say, "Here I am, lost in MEST universe space." And then you'll say, "Well, this is my space," and that gives you a tremendous power of beingness and untouchableness, and you can feel very detached and very nice and so on, and then that "Well, is it my space?" The whole truth of the matter is, it's nonidentifiable space. And the fact that it fluctuates from one to the other should tell you something: It is your space only by definition.

Fellow says, "You'll remember this in the future. Now, you will forget that I told you."

And if you define it and simply say, "Now, this is my space" — you rig up this space which has no light in it, no matter in it, no perception in it, and by definition you say, "This is my space" — why, you're all set. I mean, you did it by definition, you see? It's not very satisfactory though.

"Okay."

So, it's the theoretical bridge. But it's by definition. You see, your space can exist concurrently with MEST universe space, and you're so tuned up to the MEST universe that naturally the space you'd create would be, again, concurrent against the space.

And you wake him up — in other words, startle him back into an awareness of the illusion called the MEST universe — and sure enough, about one case out of ten that you do this to won't stutter anymore. He'll be a hangdog boy, he'll be in terrible condition otherwise, but he won't stutter. You can guarantee that. Everything is kind of dim to him and kind of bad in general, but he won't stutter. You've done what you said you were going to do. Now, this is the course of hypnotism.

Now, there'll be more to say about this in times to come, as more is known about it, but there is one of the big question marks, is just exactly how you can identify that bridge and tell the difference between an all-MEST universe space and an all-self space. Of course, you can tell the difference by definition.

Hypnotism is a terrifically valid research tool because it demonstrates conclusively that the human mind can shift its concentration and no longer perceive the MEST universe but can be shifted over to perceive any universe called for — any universe. It also — you can test things like ESP, astral walking and so forth. You can hypnotize somebody and direct him around to various places and do all sorts of things.

Well, the best way to do this is by identification — by doingness and havingness. And that is Creative Processing. You say, by definition — you say, "This is my space," and then you know it's your space simply because of the doingness and havingness in it are not MEST universe doingnesses and havingnesses. You know you have never reigned as a dragon; you know that never happened in the MEST universe. You never reigned as a dragon with the best possible attendants, and so forth. And the way you are sure of this is you have the people change in appearance; and you find out you can change their appearance around with great ease — why, all of a sudden, they become yours.

Now, because nobody had any techniques, didn't know any of the anatomy of Homo sapiens, knew nothing about Theta Clearing, all this sort of thing, an awful lot of strange mishaps have occurred with hypnotism. Nobody's tried direct Theta Clearing with hypnotism and it's pointless, just like processing is pointless using hypnotism. Because you're just breaking him into a new agreement. You're breaking down any last ability he may have to disagree. You're breaking down his last ability to disagree, and when you've got that broken down, he's practically through, right then.

And you move over directly at 20.0. There is no bridge between there; you're actually going all the way over the top and down, back down to 20.0 again, but you do it instantaneously. You mock up. You mock up doingness and havingness and it's your own space by definition, and you have Creative Processing. And you are immediately on the left side of the parabola.

How is this level of agreement achieved? You get — can get somebody to agree with you under a hypnotic influence, he can agree to the doggonedest things. Great magnitude, great magnitude. You could probably fix him up royally. You could say, "All right ..."

And the more certain you are that this could only be the left side of the parabola, only be your own universe, the better the processing.

Now by the way, hypnotists are very, very amusing people. They have written books just without end on the subject of how hypnotism cannot turn people into criminals and how people can't be hypnotized against their will and how — did you ever hear of anybody not receiving or obeying an engram without his consent? No. People have enough on the track so they've consented to anything sometime or other. It's just a light engram; it's not so light, really, but it's just an engram.

And where you have had Creative Processing even vaguely break down — it doesn't, but where you've had it taking a long time, it takes a long time in direct ratio to the amount of MEST universe (not self, but the right-hand parabola) form that you eject into it — inject into it.

And they say you can't make a person do criminal acts, you can't make a person that'll hurt himself, you can't make a girl do immoral acts under hypnotic influence. They've tried like mad — something like the field of medicine — they've just worked on a supersalesmanship across the boards in order to keep people sold on the idea. And these things that I've just enumerated that hypnotism won't do, hypnotism will invariably do. It's a big smoke screen.

Now, let's process oneself as one's own MEST universe body. See? Let's mock up one's own MEST universe body and put it out there. Now, you'll get results in ten, twelve, fifteen hours; you'll see things happening in ten or twelve or fifteen hours of this kind of processing. It is much, much better to put something out there that you know is not MEST universe — a MEST universe body.

And for instance, I have conducted many experiments on this line. True enough, a very light, light hypnotism doesn't do too much to an individual, but let's go in for it and really know how to hypnotize. Very few Western hypnotists know what they're doing. Let's get somebody in a real good, solid state. Mmm-they'd do anything.

For instance, even a thing like a pumpkin on a stick. That's at least somebody else's universe adapted to your own, and you say, "That's my body." And you say, "All right. Now these two sticks that go down there — these two sticks that go down there, those are my legs. Now, I'm going to process the right-hand stick because something is wrong with my right-hand leg." Okay, and you process that stick and you're going to get along a lot better than if you processed a MEST universe leg. Isn't that strange? You master that stick of your own universe. Fabulous, isn't it? Well, it's a direct route.

As far as "Nobody can be hypnotized," that's the same as saying, "Nobody can be knocked out." Anybody can be knocked out. You hit them over the head with a sledgehammer, they'll be knocked out; that's the end of that. You hit them in the face with ether, they'll be knocked out. And you've got, in essence, an hypnotic trance.

So, the more and the better you can depart from the MEST universe and make it the universe of self, the better Creative Processing is. But this doesn't say even then, that you have to attain an enormously high original level of creation in order to make it effective. Because it is effective regardless of what level of creation you use, as long as it is a level of creation.

If you can keep the body — you see, the drug and the injury, however, impede the body so that the body is giving currents back to the individual and so he doesn't pay as much attention to you as he would if just you were giving him currents.

So, anyway, you can experiment with this. Somebody will have to go over this whole field sometime or other and get a good rundown on it. Somebody that knows how to hypnotize and so on instead of these dilettantes that do stage hypnotism. Actually, any one of you could put on an act as a stage hypnotist that would be tremendously successful, and the people you'd have on the stage would be hypnotized. The people you're hypnotizing in that case are the audience.

You just call somebody up and you say, "Now, sit down. Now, when I snap my fingers you're in a trance." And you go bang! and the guy is in a trance. He had to be suggestible to come up and see you anyhow. And you say, "All right. Now you are an airplane pilot and you're going to fly this chair all around," and the guy'll sit there and with perfect reality for him fly the chair all around the theater. Fantastic. He probably gets out of his body and does it.

Now, what's this add up to?

There is also the mechanism of posthypnotic suggestion. You tell a person under hypnotism — hypnosis — you say to him, "Now, when you awaken ..." I don't know why they kept talking about sleep and hypnotism; the two are not related. But they just use it just as a sloppy word, just bad semantics. Because a fellow is completely wide awake, he's just superconcentrated. He's fixed on his attention and you are his determinism.

All right. And you say to him, "Now, when you wake up, when you wake up — and every time I put my hand in my pocket, you will sneeze." And just tell him that. "And now forget that I've told you this. You agree that you've forgotten this." See, that keynote agree, agree, agree. "Agree that you've forgotten this," and so on and you put your hand in your pocket and the guy goes, "Kerchoo!" And he says, "What's wrong with me? Must be a draft in here," so on. You put your hand back in your pocket again, "Kerchoo!" He'll do it.

You finally wear the button out; maybe twenty, thirty times, the button is gone and he all of a sudden spots that you're doing something. There's something wrong in your vicinity, at length, when the button is beginning to wear out, and then he says, finally, "Oh, it's because you're putting your hand in your pocket," and after that he won't do it.

How far can this go? This can go an awful long ways. This can go as far as "Every time I put my hand in my pocket, your nose will run." Now, the fellow doesn't even have a cold, you see, and after he comes out of it again, every time you put your hand in your pocket, his nose will run, but violently! Oh, I'd say you could probably just run, just torrents. You can monitor the whole endocrine system, all the mucous membranes, with hypnotism. Fantastic, isn't it? You can also change body form with hypnotism. Fantastic, isn't it?

But the boys that have been doing hypnotism really don't know what hypnotism can do, and they're not really good hypnotists; they're using Western methods that are rather dull. They don't use hypnoscopes — that is to say, they don't take time at it. It's all got to be fast in the Western world. You got to be able to do it quick. If you can't hypnotize this person in fifteen minutes, they say he's unhypnotizable.

In the East, if they're really working on something like this, it — "Well, let's take off five, six months and hypnotize him." I mean, just about that order of magnitude, and anybody's hypnotizable under those conditions; he just breaks down. There's one case in France of an experiment run 3,000 attempts, and on the 3,001st the fellow went into a trance.

Now, how deep can these trances be made? Mmm. They're as deep as you want to keep on hypnotizing somebody. It's repeated hypnotisms. If you repeat some hypnotism every day for, let's say, a year, you will get a level of hypnotic trance the like of which has never been witnessed in this Western world. And it's — can be put into any state, and it's on the border, so close to the border of death that a doctor can't detect the heartbeat or it's made into complete life. Now, this is what you call suspended animation, that sort of thing.

In other words, these states are tremendous — I mean, their magnitude — magnitude. You could lay somebody out so that for thirty days he would sustain life without food or water. The reason why: he's not using any energy; the body isn't using any energy.

Well, this is a very interesting study, isn't it? Posthypnotic suggestion, hypnotism. Once upon a time, I looked at hypnotism and I said — I was a kid — I said, "You know, hypnotism is somehow linked up with the secret of existence. Somehow linked up. Now what is it?" Because it's a wild variable.

Later on, got into where I could talk some scientific jargon, I used to look at it and I'd say, "You know, it's a funny thing. Some people do, some people don't. Sometimes it behaves one way and another way and it seems to depend a lot upon the operator. And it works well once in a million times and it works badly most of the time. And boy, is this stuff hypnotism variable."

Every time we find a wild variable anywhere in a problem, study it. Study it well, because that variable contains the answer to the problem. A manic-depressive's variable contains the answer to his manic-depressivity. If you know what it is that's flicking him from manic to depressive, if you study his manic-depressive states one way to the other for a little while, you'll find out what's flicking him from one state to the other state.

All right. Let's look over this whole field now of hypnotism and we'll see it as a very calm way of laying in an engram. The engram has command power over the individual; it's rather unseen, it's hidden, same as a posthypnotic suggestion. We'll see, then, that in the states of a few minutes we can do what the material universe has been doing to an individual for 76 trillion years. He has been agreeing! He's been agreeing!

How did the MEST universe get him to agree? You got the fellow to agree a little bit — you say, "Now, you're sitting there, aren't you?"

And witlessly, he'll say, "Yes."

"Now, you're sitting there this way, aren't you?"

"Yes."

You'll just get this current of agreement coming up — current, current, current — and all of a sudden you've got an inflow of energy.

The MEST universe said, "Now. Now, you don't mind if we set up shop a little close to you?"

"Well, no."

And then a little closer and a little closer. Now you agree a little bit more, you agree a little bit more, you agree a little bit more, and how bad off are you? Well, you can see that wall, can't you? It's not there.

Once upon a time, there was on old fairy tale that said the world had fallen under a black enchantment. I studied that black enchantment for a long time. What you're trying to do to preclears is unhypnotize them — that is, to break the chain of agreement with the MEST universe — and you are able then to make them able individuals. And if you don't break that chain of agreement, then you can't break through, actually, their psychosis or neurosis or disabilities with any degree of facility at all.

MEsT universe has said to them, "We handle you." Well, if you can just turn around and say — till the preclear can say, "I can handle it," in terms of energy and engrams, you've done a terrific amount for him.

But if he can say, "Look, I can do as well as this. I can build a universe." Boy, oh boy, oh boy, does that invalidate this other illusion. And you're waking him up, and this subject will make a terrific advance forward the moment we discover exactly how you snap your fingers and wake up a preclear who has been hypnotized for 76 trillion years. And if we could learn exactly how you snapped your fingers to wake him up, we would have a one-shot or a one-snap Clear. And that is the route for the one-shot Clear.