We're progressing here into a new era and strata of Dianetics and Scientology. We have a period coming up wherein we're trying to stress ability. Now, this is one of the interesting things about Dianetics and Scientology - they're so illegal. They're so illegal. It's really fabulous. You'd think, for God sakes, that we were working in there cheek by jowl with the US government and the AMA and the psychology departments of Rotgut University. You'd just think that this was the case. Now, this is not the case.

We're private individuals in a private association engaged in research and investigation and the application of the results to the betterment of humanity. But everybody's got to get his foot in the act. The Better Business Bureau - I don't know how much the Better Business Bureaus are bribed (huh! another word for contribution) by the AMA. The Better Business Bureau has the utter gall to come out time and time again with statements that certain diseases are utterly uncurable. And they tell the public consistently that they should beware of anybody who raises their hope on any of these things. What a filthy control operation. In the first place, several of the diseases mentioned may not be curable by the American Medical Association but have for many years been successfully attacked by many other fields of healing.

Let's take poliomyelitis. Sister Kenny actually performed miracles with poliomyelitis, and yet the American Medical Association says that after a few years of its getting set and sodden and sought, poliomyelitis can have nothing whatsoever done for it. And that is a lie. So we look at the field of healing and we find out that a bunch of goofs, who have let it be popularly known that you have to go to school for twelve years before you learn how to scratch a patient's nose, have all this nailed down. The hell they have. They haven't got anything nailed down. Not a damn thing.

They might have their office scales nailed down, but that's about all. Because they are not serving the American public or the public of the world to the degree that that public desires to be served. And that's the best reason they haven't got things nailed down. Nobody from pole to pole on this sphere has any slightest part of mental aberration or correction nailed down. Nobody. We haven't got it nailed down because we don't want to nail it down as a big monopoly.

But here is propaganda pouring out continually that nothing can be done about these things. And we are actually working upstream against the god-damnedest defeatist attitude you ever saw - not on the part of the public, but on the part of the people who are supposed to be in charge of this kind of thing. What have we got to do?

Medical doctor says, „Apathy.“ Psychiatrist - he hasn't got any business to go on living at all. He's a murderer. I've just been looking around for a good hot case of a psychiatrist to prosecute for murder.

There is nothing in the Constitution or the laws of any state that says it's less a murder to kill an insane man than a sane one. You will not find that in any statute.

You won't find in any statute barring homicide - no statute whatsoever - will you discover that it says „homicide of sane individuals.“ Homicide means the killing of a man, not a sane man. And just because a guy flips his lid or his wife runs off with the chauffeur and he spins a little bit is no reason why a psychiatrist is then fully authorized to throw him on an electric shock machine and kill him. I do mean that; I mean kill him.

As far as prefrontal lobotomies are concerned, the psychiatrist is very successful with the prefrontal lobotomy. It always makes the patient quieter, he says, when it doesn't kill him. It very often necessitates the constant attendance of an attendant at sixty, a hundred dollars a week from there on. They lose all physical control. They lose control of the function of the bladder and the bowels and so forth. This is uniform in the prefrontal lobotomy, uniform rate.

What the hell are we looking at? Just what the hell are we looking at?

Now, how could these dogs have anything to say about what we did or how we could help people. It's like the criminals out of some boozing den someplace rushing out and telling decent citizens which way to go and how to drive, and so forth. It's just nonsense.

When we look at aberration in this society we, of course, are looking at the insaner side of the society. And of course, it's irrational. And of course, one of the insane activities is to stop all motion. You know, „We must stop all motion,“ or „All motion is uncontrollable.“ That's where we get into that bracket.

So when we start wading along the line going a little bit upstream to research and investigation, we discover some very interesting things. We discover that the public at large is not antipathetic toward the betterment of humanity. We discover that private individuals believe something can be done for people. We believe that somebody, when he gets somebody sick on his hands - you know, a husband, he gets his wife sick on his hands - he'll go around and look for help. And the doctor says, „There's nothing can be done for it,“ apathy-apathy. And the psychiatrist says, „There's nothing can be done except we got electric shock, he-he-hu.“

And the husband goes around still looking. And the Better Business Bureau puts out pamphlets to tell him to stop looking. How do you know? This is-this is fantastic.

The Better Business Bureau could be arrested today, or sued, for the diagnosis of medical ills. It unqualifiedly states in its pamphlets that such and so is incurable, and nothing can be done for such and so, and the public must be aware of anybody who says he can do anything for so and so. And because these are uncurable, these are all incurable, all incurable - that is medical diagnosis.

Of course, it'd be a great shock to any prosecuting attorney in your district attorney's office to have you suddenly walk in and issue a warrant for the president of all the Better Business Bureaus for medical diagnosis. Nevertheless, you could make it stick. It's no more insane than what they're doing. As a matter of fact, it's a shade saner.

So a great many problems arise for the individual practitioner and for the organization, this organization, any group that you get together, any church group you get together - a great many problems are posed. Posed not by the public, posed not by your general attitude, posed not by any difficulty you might be having with technology, techniques or unknowns in the preclear, the preclear's environment.

These problems are surmountable. The problems you're posed by is the fact that the government and the AMA, Better Business Bureau and so forth all supposed they have a vested interest in the health of the public. They suppose they have one.

Actually, they have a vested in the unhealth of the public. But we discover as we go forward that we get into, occasionally, trouble with these. Even though we don't get into a direct clash, they disturb us from our forward course of existence by making us take measures and courses which we would not ordinarily take, and this is the crux of the situation. We have to make provisions and we have to change the wording of; and we have to make sure that we don't, and so forth. Why should we? We're a private organization. We're private individuals. We are extremely sincere in what we are trying to do.

And when I looked this over, I saw that we were facing a roadblock of some kind or another. There's a roadblock. It keeps an organization from making any great forward progress. This is the roadblock I'm talking about. The roadblock is not in the public mind. The public loves problems. They'll dash off in all directions.

Somebody sets up a snakeroot oil stand, why, they rally around and buy the snakeroot oil. To hell with it; sometimes snakeroot oil works.

They have a - they have a completely free communication sort of an attitude on it when you really start circulating around. But they are influenced very definitely by continuous contact with aberration. The fields of healing are aberrated fields, highly aberrated. And the public gets in contact with them and before they come to see an auditor, they're liable to ask their doctor, and their doctor says, „No! Guy-yap-yap-yap.“ „And here's a pamphlet on the part of the Better Business Bureau that says absolutely that you are incurable. Schizophrenia - nothing can be done for a paranoid schiz. And that's what you are.“

I mean I - this is a direct case history. A guy was all bogged down. He came around to me and he says, „Re-re-really isn't really any reason-reason for me to have any auditing because I'm a paranoid schiz.“

„You're what? What's a paranoid schiz?“

„Well, it's a - .“ That dead ended him.

And then, „Nothing can be done for you because you're a paranoid schiz. Is that right? And you don't even know what a paranoid schiz is. Why don't you go and find out what a paranoid schiz is?“

So he assigned himself this project and he went off trying to find out what a paranoid schiz was. And after he had run forty or fifty definitions through his mind on this subject, he found out he could take his choice.

After I'd audited him for a little while, it was quite amusing; he finally determined that we had better make up a definition for a paranoid schiz because this was what he was. And we found out it was a person who didn't like cream in his coffee. And he finally settled on this.

So to some slight degree, we must be out of category, right? If we find ourselves faced with a roadblock, then it must be that we're out of category. Thee and me haven't very much truck with the psychoanalytic front or the world of medicine, something like that. We don't have much truck with this. It doesn't immediately alert us as being the most fascinating thing that we could deal with.

We're just going through some more definitions and classifications, aren't we, when we say, well, we're closely associated with medicine or psychology or something like that. It's just cream in the coffee. They might as well just say, „What we do is so-and-so and so-and-so,“ and let it go at that.

Well, I found something quite interesting. And this is one of the things that was holding me up on the book Dianetics 1955! I had to find out where we categorized Dianetics and Scientology. What's the category. Obviously, the public has to have a category. Discovered something quite interesting.

We're - we're dealing, in processing, with self-cognition, aren't we, continually - recognition of self recognition of life, cognition. Fellow finds out new things about himself. He finds out that he can do this, that he doesn't have to be afraid of that. He discovers these things, doesn't he? And all of our auditing is actually slanted in the direction of self-discovery. This is sort of a covert method of sitting the guy down and instead of yapping data at him on the subject - „Now, you realize that it is because you kissed your little sister when you were two is why you're aberrated.“ I mean, we don't do that, see.

What we do is we run him on the basics of existence, and we don't care what he had to discover. He'll tell us sooner or later in a great shocked state that by golly, that didn't matter whether he kissed his sister or not, did it? And, self-cognition.

Well, self-cognition is a brand-new thing, isn't it, in a - in the field of healing. Doesn't belong in the field of healing. The field of healing, nobody ever deals with that. Actually, what they do is they come around and they pass a magic wand and say boof-woof or take three times a day, t.i.d., or some other magic incantation.

[t.i.d = Latin: „ter in die“ meaning take 3 times a day, used in medical perscriptions - Ed.]

And it's all exterior to the field of healing, isn't it? They even speak of some healing that was done a couple of thousand years ago as totally exterior, see. Healing was done by Joe on Bill. That right? I mean, medicine and healing and psychiatry and psychoanalysis, and so forth, deal then with this weird angle.

Some clinical psychology has to do with self-cognition, but not to any great degree. What they do is they want the fellow to recognize what is wrong with him, you see. And we don't want anybody to recognize what's wrong with him. We want to recognize what's right with him.

All right. So we're looking around for a category, and we find out that you know that we're a cut above education and that education intervenes between us and healing. Well, for heaven's sakes. Get the idea.

I mean, not only are we not immediately associated with what man calls healing - doesn't matter whether we can heal or not, it's what man calls healing, what he applies this label to - not only are we not associated intimately with that, but we're not even really intimately associated with education. We try to hold education to a minimum even in training auditors.

We want him to recognize that what he is doing is the right thing, and that if he goes on doing it, this and that will occur as a result thereof, and we don't really try to batter him into line if he is just in complete revolt and says, „8-C won't do anything for anybody, 8-C won't do anything for anybody.“ We say, „Well, try it out.“

Nobody, for instance, in a university, teaching a class in physics, is going to trifle with some student that says, „The vector formulas don't work, you know. The vector formulas don't work.“ What do they do? They flunk you. They don't tell him to go out and spin a top or fix up a sling and - and swing it around his head. They don't do this. They flunk him, that's all.

Looks like we're associating here with a universe and an attitude which is distinctly different than the one we're working with, see? So actually, education - getting people to know by the process of lecture and examination - is lower on the scale than what we are doing, and lower on the scale than that is the fields of healing as recognized. So we're actually above the level of education, and it'd be much more proper for us to constitute ourselves a field of education by self-cognition. This would be a brand-new system of education. So people get well. Well, you say that dives back into the field of healing. Oh, no, it doesn't. People get able.

You know, all they're trying to do - I put my - put the axe in on trying in engineering school. All they're trying to do in an engineering school is trying to make somebody capable as an engineer, aren't they; that's what they're trying to do. It's going to take hard experience in all kinds of things to complete this proposition. And he never is going to be cognizant with - he never is going to be cognizant with the entire field of mechanics and so forth, mostly because they let him flunk elementary physics.

So all of our difficulty so far has been in the fact that we have mislabeled ourselves. Completely mislabeled ourselves. We're educators in a very, very much finer sense than most teachers. You get the idea? We are educating a preclear by a process of self-cognition. We're educating him about himself and about life, not by pouring data at him, but by working processes upon him.

Therefore, we're imminently concerned with abilities, and we are extremely helpful where he is concerned on his problems. Why? Do you think there is any difference between a person having a problem as an individual and an engineer having a problem as a professional engineer? Is there any difference in this?

Education levels at the solution of problems. We are leveled at the solution of problems, and even the remedy of the scarcity of problems.

So we have a process here of education, don't we? Self-education. And if we called ourselves self-education (what is Dianetics? Dianetics is a self-education. It's an education about yourself), why, we would be several cuts up, wouldn't we?

Do you know that it's illegal to insure anybody to the effect that you'll return his money if you cure his arthritis?

In other words, the law enforces dishonesty upon the practitioner in an effort to uphold the practice on the part of doctors of receiving, accepting and keeping fees even when they do nothing for the patient. The honest thing to do, is when you have not accomplished your action, would be to refund the money. This would be the most honest thing you could do. Is that right? The law makes it impossible for you to do so. That, of course, is to protect this other practice.

If you had a bunch of practitioners around driving Cadillacs with the average income of $12,500 a year who depended exclusively upon being able to keep the money even when they failed to deliver the goods, and you suddenly told them that they had to return the money when they didn't deliver the goods, do you know what would happen to that whole profession? It would simply collapse because they cannot heal. The public - they would have to face this fact themselves, you see. Seventy percent of the ills which are brought to them are psychosomatic, and they give them some histamine or some antibug juice or something like that. Somebody comes to them with arthritis, they say go to Arizona. Or they give them some gold shots or something like this. Somebody has a heart trouble and they gives them some ACTH, but of course this heart trouble comes right back instantly that the ACTH is laid off In other words, it's something that holds things in abeyance like drugs.

Now, they can put a person out of pain by simply giving them enough morphine. Well, any witch doctor has been able to do that since the beginning of time. Indian hemp three thousand years ago would put a man out of pain. You give anybody enough cyanide, and he really goes right on out of pain.

So this is an easy one. This is an easy one. It's not for nothing that the doctor complains against the laws forbidding euthanasia, mercy killing. It would be his fastest cure. He gets upset because he's not permitted to do mercy killing.

I'm not trying to vilify the doctor; I'm merely saying he's ignorant. I'm not trying to run down his skill; I'm just saying he doesn't have any. I'm sure he has a nice bedside manner. I'm sure he's sweet to his nurses. And I'm sure his hospitals are well run like any company or regiment is well run. I'm sure of this.

Outside of the fact that one of our boys, the Church of Scientology group, the other day walked into a private room found a woman hemorrhaging to death, no attendant anywhere near her. He got an attendant and stopped the hemorrhage, and so on. He did a little work for the medical profession.

But look here. If these things are problems, if all these ills are simply problems, and if people are basically having an awfully hard time trying to solve all these problems, and if they merely have problems in order to get answers - . Look at that one for a minute. That's one way of getting an answer, isn't it? You get a problem then you solve it, then you've got an answer. That's very covert.

And if this is the case, then we find out that these organizations and professions which I have been vilifying here - that these boys are pandering to a sort of a circuit, aren't they? And so you'd really never expect them to come up very far or actually get into action in the society because they're validating circuits all the time, circuits that bring up problems. They pay attention to this. They solve by means of drugs, surgery, and so forth, the things that have been kicked into being by entities.

Well, that would make the whole thing kind of potty, wouldn't it? I mean, everybody would - this would look real goofy.

Supposing you as an auditor pledged yourself never to pay any attention to the preclear but to only pay attentions to the circuits which are criticizing him inside his head, the circuits which were invalidating him every time he said, „You know, I'm a pretty good fellow“ and something said to him, „Oh, no you're not.“ And if you never paid any attention to „I'm a pretty good fellow,“ the fellow says, but only to these other things that were invalidating him and so forth, you would find your career as an auditor perhaps interesting but not very successful. The results on cases would be very poor. The exteriorization of an entity or a machine from the body is a very difficult thing to accomplish.

But the popping of the preclear out of his head is not too difficult, not with the techniques we have there in Dianetics 1955!

All right. Then if we'd been off on the wrong strike, it was probably because of a misunderstanding of what was going on, you see. If we classified ourselves with the field of medicine, with the field of psychiatry and that sort of thing, we would be classifying ourselves with groups which paid total attention to circuits and misconditions, and so forth. What, for instance, is a guilt complex but a circuit? Well, that is the total goal of psychoanalysis: eradication of a guilt complex. Well, we'd certainly limit ourselves, wouldn't we? We ever really get in touch with any of the truth in the society if we went on validating circuits? Well, if we just classify ourselves with the field of healing forcefully enough and strongly enough, we would fail, because the field of healing is failing. And it's failing very finely. The public is getting more and more and more excited about doctor bills and about other malfunctions. The public right now believes that anything would be better than psychiatry. I call your attention to a poll conducted by Collier's magazine in 1951, I think it was, inspired by myself in 1950.

All right. When we get a condition where we would be in continuous, intimate contact with a bunch of circuits such as the AMA, the American Psychiatric and so forth, we would wind up in the soup, wouldn't we? Now, you see where we've been going all this time? We'd wind up in the soup.

In other words, here on the third dynamic we would associate ourselves only with circuits, classify ourselves with circuits, and believe that these circuits were blocking us in our progress toward a goal.

Well, that's what we believed up to date.

See that? We believe that we were being blocked by a bunch of circuits. Well, naturally, you think the - healing a preclear, you're being blocked by a bunch of circuits. Well, really, you're not now - with the processes in Dianetics 1955! and what we know right here - we're not really being blocked by circuits at all. We simply increase the person's power of decision and location, and finally he's three feet back of his head. And this is all we do. It's the most simplest thing you ever heard of - idiotically simple. Should have thought of it a long time ago.

All right. So somebody says he's got ulcers. Well, we say 'We don't care whether somebody said he had ulcers or not. And we don't say he has ulcers. We don't care anything about his ulcers. We simply want to rehabilitate his ability to eat corn and drink whiskey. We don't care anything about his arthritis. Somebody says he has arthritis. So what? We don't care. We could say they had - he had plombosis and arthrosis and all kinds of other Latin diseases. It seems like most of the medical diseases are - were brought here straight from the Roman Empire, but - and that they were simply symbols.

Now, we won't care if he's been shot, had a broken arm, had arthritis, had poliomyelitis - or whatever else anybody said with bum Latin - we're going to ensure him that he will be able, through the processes of self-education, to put his hands over his head. There's nothing illegal about that, and we are validating an actuality. A man should be able to put his hands over his head, shouldn't he? Nobody can argue with this. They might try. But they go into apathy right away.

Because they're a circuit, and they're looking at truth. We say this man truthfully should be able to put his hands over his head. He should be able to walk across the room. He should be able to take a drink of whiskey without obsessively and compulsively going on drinking whiskey.

In other words, we simply ensure him that - or assure him, you might say, that he will be able to drink whiskey. Obviously, now, the medical profession says he can't drink whiskey because the enzymes are on the rootle pods, and it so happens that the excitation of the lower thrombosis is continually in juxtaposition, and that's why he can't drink whiskey. Well, we don't care anything about this. We don't happen to agree with all this juxtaposition of the thrombosis. Actually, do you know that alcoholism is now diagnosed by the American Medical Association as an enzyme characteristic which is unrecoverable because it is dielectric? That's right. It isn't that the fact that the guy takes a drink of whiskey and then can't stop drinking whiskey. See, that's not what alcoholism is. It's something very covert and Latin.

All right. When we discover this - preclear cannot drink whiskey - we simply by process of self-education, „We will fix you up so you can drink whiskey.“ And that actually is the legal court test of an alcoholic. They put the alcoholic on the witness stand and they give him a glass of whiskey, if he claims he's not an alcoholic. And they put another couple of glasses nearby. An alcoholic will drink the first one, the second one and the third one pang-pang-pang and ask for more right away. He's got to have more. You see, he's trying to get a full glass in front of him.

He knew he was all right before he emptied that glass. That's actually what he's doing, by the way. He's trying to get a full glass of whiskey in front of him.

Now this individual has an obsessive characteristic whereby he believes that somebody is going to murder him. You know, he believes this all the time. He's up all night. So you assure him he'll be able to sleep nights after some auditing. This isn't even covert. This is completely overt. This is the right thing. This is the direction in which we're traveling - restoring an individual's ability. What's education do? Simply restores an ability or creates one. See that? So, much more properly, we are in the field of education. By self-education, by self-recognition, an individual can do a great many more things than he now is able to do. And what do you know, the public agrees with us. A very broad spread in its agreement. An individual can be educated into doing this and that. He can be taught out of his fear, you know?

You can educate somebody into feeling secure in his environment. You can teach him that people aren't after him. Nobody is going to argue with this.

They're going to say at - occasionally that this is a method to get around the fact that you are actually healing this person's paranoid schizophrenia or something of the sort. And you can say, „Paranoid schizophrenia - what's that?“ And then you really have started a ball, because nobody will be able to tell you or the judge or anybody else.

Now, where you have - where you have validated a preclear's inabilities, you will find that these have become interesting.

Actually, the best thing that you can say about a circuit is that it's being interesting. Boy! Is it being interesting. All the freedom in the world is right back of the preclear, but there he is facing that very interesting circuit, and every time he starts to do something, he's right there looking at that circuit. Do you see that?

It is the interestingness of the circuit which compels attention to it. If we were to call auditors teachers, we would have a more interesting reaction on the part of the public. For instance, an auditor says - the public asks an auditor, „Well, what are you exactly?“ - they mean, „Give me another name for yourself.“ And if the auditor said, „Well, I'm a professor of self-education,“ people would be much more edified than if the fellow said, „Well, I'm not quite a psychoanalyst, but almost. And I'm very close to psychology, but I'm not,“ and so on, it makes a qualification a classification which is very difficult. Well, if this qualification, classification is very difficult, then there must be an error in it someplace, mustn't there? And the error is just that: You're closer to education than you are to psychiatric activity.

Now, the uses to which Dianetics and Scientology have been put - where they have commanded some alertness on the part of the government, for instance and so forth - have been right in the fields of education. Some experiments were carried out in Great Britain with gunnery classes and radar classes, that sort of thing. And it was discovered that the world of education has an awfully hard time of it.

A gunnery class was rejecting 80 percent of its applicants after they'd been in class for quite a while. Imagine that. Eighty percent of the applicants were incapable of doing this line of action. Now, some terrific percentage of the applicants who went halfway through radar school and so forth had to be jettisoned.

Here you were educating this vast number of people in order to get this little handful of competents. Well, this is a heck of a note, isn't it. Application of Dianetics, Scientology in those particular spheres - in one particular instance, it was stated to me - successfully graduated all of the applicants. Well, this is fantastic. I mean, what the heck here? You mean, why, the training being done in the frame of reference of Dianetics and Scientology with some Group Processing and so forth, why, we discover - we discover that all of the applicants could be graduated. And this was a very good thing because this scarcity of graduates had brought about a scarcity of this rate - this rating, trained in the armed service. Get that?

I mean, they didn't have anywhere near enough of these people, you see, and yet they were having to jettison most of their graduates - pardon me, applicants and students somewhere along the line. And here all of a sudden, why, somebody up and graduated the whole class. Well, this was a happy thing, actually, and this particular case did command some attention from the admiralty. This was an interesting factor.

By aiding and abetting, then, what education is trying to do, you have a considerable field lying out in front of you. Now, one of the main things that has been wrong so far is that educators didn't immediately step up and solicit the services of auditors. Well, that's because they - because they're kind of apathetic. They're kind of apathetic.

Supposing you - . Horrible thought. I mean, we’re... - this is a real wild one, but we just pitch this one just as a - as a little problem here. Supposing you set up - I'm not asking you to do this - a school to teach high school in a year. You're going to successfully get the person through the New York Regents Examinations in one year. You certainly would be doing something that would command a little bit of interest there, one way or the other. You'd certainly command the interest of a bunch of the students going to the local high school. Supposing you starting a driving school saying people had been turned down in their driver's licenses and who have not been able to pass driving tests, so forth, should come to school here in order to get their driving test. And we'll guarantee that after you've been through school here, you'll get your driver's license. I don't know. I think it might command some interest. Very well might. There are quite a few of these around, by the way.

Of course, the law gets in your road there. They put arbitrary time limits because of the emotional instability of a person. This person has accidents, and therefore he can't have a driver's license. And you remove the emotional instability and make it able - make him able to drive, you see. You increase his ability in driving, and then the law doesn't believe you, because they put an arbitrary factor - this person can't have a driver's license, see. All that, however, would have to be altered and changed.

Now, I bring up that one because a fellow recently did an interesting experiment. His wife went down to get her driver's license, and he - she flunked. And he took her and ran 8-C on the car every day for a short time, and she went back down and passed the test with flying colors and was next seen driving through Piccadilly Circus, and everybody knows nobody can drive through Piccadilly Circus. This is in the forthcoming issue of the Journal, by the way. But here is a - here is a level of application, very interesting level of application. There's a much wider field looks at one by a reason of this.

Now, I think we can actually practically consider ourselves departing from and divorced from the fields of healing as categorized by it.

It's certain that with all the technology which we possess that we are developing a considerable explosive power in the society. You cannot put this much knowingness in one group, you cannot put this much ability in one group without it exploding sooner or later. It's just an impossibility. And we're just trying to guide the direction it's liable to explode.

It has only been a couple of months that auditors have felt very, very, very secure about being able to get results on a preclear. They felt secure about it. They're getting cocky, which is a very good state of mind. And auditors are getting interested in auditing. A lot of auditors have been around that had stopped being interested in auditing. They're watching some of the results turn up, and they're getting interested in auditing.