LRH: Now, do you remember a time when you were really in communication with somebody?

Continuing this dissertation on the V and how to audit him.

PC: Really in communication? Oh yes, numerous times.

I have given you this data about gravity and its interaction, not because we are politely interested in the effects of planets — although it's rather obvious that Venus and Jupiter and so forth might have some effect upon an individual, therefore, if the sun and the moon and Earth are so — affect him so profoundly.

LRH: One.

Now, the effect of this is often to pull his body out of shape. Now, preclears would like to have their bodies altered. They seem to favor a body for some reason or other. And a fellow develops a misshapen body, if you want to call it that, quite often, and his face shape goes out of shape, and the length of his nose goes out of shape on this pull. And if you audit him for a while using a double terminal, you will find out that the forces involved here are not inconsiderable.

PC: Well, at lunch time.

Now, how many ways are there to alter this and to use it? Well, there's any number of ways — any number of ways you can do this, but remember, double-terminal it; that is to say, any way you want to.

LRH: At lunch time?

Now, you can, for instance, get Earth and Earth being happy. And the sun and the sun being happy. "Now, put those up there and get them all being happy." Or "Put up four moons and get them happy." Or "Put up four suns and get them happy; have them be cheerful," and so on.

PC: Mm-hm.

And the next thing you know, the lines will start appearing. If they don't start appearing on this fellow after a while, tell him to start shoving them in and speed it up just a little bit, because it means he's so light-starved that he can't — they won't start automatically; they're just stopped.

LRH: Good, good. Now, you remember a time when you really knew somebody felt some affinity for you.

Now, how a man is going to get sonic and visio and see light and favor light and everything else if his whole impulse is stopping light, is a question which somebody else will have to solve. You can't, in other words, turn on sonic if his impulse is to stop the motion of particles. If he doesn't know the particles are there, how does he know he's stopping them? Interesting problem, isn't it?

PC: Uh — yes, as I was leaving Auckland .. . Mm-hm.

Now, there were ways of solving this and that is by building up his force — building up his force. It has been said around in the sticks that we favor rebuilding — or Nietzsche, in other words — we're afraid we're favoring strong men now and therefore, Scientology is fascistic and so forth because we say that a man has to be rehabilitated in the field of force before his perceptics turn on. Well, that doesn't happen to be policy, that just happens to be fact.

PC: ... and coming over here.

And you'll find out that the only man you should really fear a little bit is a weak man. Don't ever fear a strong one. The — it's only weak men who become dictators. All right. By the way, poor old Nietzsche was a weakling, with his great parade of force.

LRH: Mm-hm. Now, excuse me, I'll make a comment on this.

We're not talking, then, about force as conduct. We are just talking about force as a man in physics would talk about force. We're just talking about flows of particles. You've got to rehabilitate his ability to get — let particles flow before you get much in the way of perception.

(to audience] Only reason I was showing you this, you've got a fast communication lag index here. And if he hasn't been out of his body under older techniques, somebody ought to be shot.

There are many ways of doing it; we had lots of ways of doing it in the past. I'm demonstrating here a primary source of particle flow shut-off. Because what happens in this setup?

LRH: Let's go up and grab ahold of those two corners of the room up there .. .

When that sun is pulling on him with gravity, it is pushing at him and he gets the idea after a while that he'd better hold on to the sun, so he does. And he starts holding on to the sun but he can never hold on to the sun and he always loses. So he loses, so he says, "I've failed, therefore I cannot control time." And what's our primary aberration? Time. "I cannot alter or control time."

PC: Mm-hm.

Something else happens. This universe runs backwards compared to what a thetan runs. Why? I'll go into that in just a moment, but what hap-pens is that when he pulls on the sun, he pulls more photons in on him than he can get energy up. It would be like grabbing ahold of a treadmill, and you'll very often find a V on the complete belief that he has to do with tread-mills. People try to walk away from him in mock-ups — what little mock-up he gets — and they're walking on a treadmill.

LRH: . . . from inside your head. Shut your eyes and grab ahold of those two corners of the room. This would be, by the way, just standard pro — you could just do this just as I'm doing it right here and you'd be safe as a bug in a rug with every case you ran.

Well, don't look for people to resolve this, because they don't resolve it rapidly at that level of case. Look at this. Every time he pulls on the sun, he gets a flood of particles down on his head. So what's that mean? Every time he tries to push against the sun he gets a flock of particles down on his head. Every time he tries to do anything about the sun he gets a flock of particles down on his head, so therefore he says, "In the face of the great god Ra, I am unable to control my anchor points, therefore, I can't control my anchor points. Furthermore, on certain dark nights, I can't control my anchor points. Although I would like to illuminate all the heavens, when I tried to put out my anchor points on certain dark nights, for some reason or other my anchor points fly back in my face."

PC: Yes, I've got them.

That's very early, and it is actually mechanical behavior which hasnever been analyzed by him. He doesn't know this has taken place or whyhe's failed or why he's abandoned it. What's happened is in the dark of themoon, the moon goes overhead and underfoot anyway, and still exerts graviticinfluence. And here you have no admiration from the moon, and so this particle,force, of course, is not run out — if effort, in other words, doesn't run out in theabsence of admiration. People think of the moon as admiring them. All right.Now, when the moon goes over in the dark of the moon, you have a perfectly dark sky, and the sky is so black and so dark that it obviously has noinfluence whatsoever. But what do you know, there's an awful lot of moon upthere, and it's the same moon although it isn't pouring in on him. In otherwords, the moon's behavior, then, is quite different and you have man supposing it to be quite erratic. Civilized man has so long been living in houses andaway from the sight of all this and buried down in this that he's still influenced by it, but it has shifted cycle here and there. But we find the moon stillcontrolling a great deal of his activities, particularly on the second dynamic.You'll find it controlling with absurd accuracy the second dynamic ofanimals who are customarily capable of being outside in the moon. You know, I mean, like rabbits on the plains. There is no shelter; they're just on the plains and they're always in sight of the moon. All right, they're influenced by it very markedly, particularly on the second dynamic. All right.

LRH: You've got them?

Now, we take the action here, then, of the sun, the moon and the Earth and we are dealing with tremendous forces and we're dealing with MEST. If you ask a preclear to mock up a room on top of a room, he will get a flow. He'll get more of a flow and more of a reaction — more of a physical reaction — anytime than he'll get off running people — anytime. So here we have MEST. Here we have lots of MEST.

PC: Mm-hm.

We have this great big mass of Earth, we have that big mass of a sun, we have the moon — all of them right close by. And we get these interactive forces and they are very difficult to run out and they are very, very hard — not difficult to run out on this principle — but they're very hard for anybody to combat; they're too, too much there.

LRH: Hold on to them for a moment, and don't think.

And what do you know, evidently — evidently there's more to know about this, but evidently it's this combination that gives one his sense of time. And all through this universe one gets his sense of time off the interaction of heavenly bodies. And the body itself is timed, the breathing is timed, the heartbeat is timed by what? Gravitic influence. It's like one huge chronometer set up there. And all these bodies act the same toward it. Now, this gives us an answer — irrespective of somebody suddenly stepping up and molding each body to size and shape; it gives you an answer of why a type of body will develop and be a type of body. Why does man have, for instance, a prefrontal lobe? You will find that out when you double-terminal the sun, the Earth. You'll find out that the heavenly body cuts him, and the force of it cuts him right across where the membrane is, where the prefrontal lobe comes in. Why do people have double chins? The chin never gets admired by sunlight or moonlight. Hidden down here. It's fascinating. A lot of odd and absurd data connected with this.

PC: The "don't think" part comes hard.

But remember it if you want to alter the physical body of a V or a IV or a III for that matter, if it's too far out of line. Remember that data.

LRH: Mm-hm. Well, just get interested in the corners.

It's a very simple technique. You simply tell him to double-terminal the sun and the Earth and the moon. "Two suns, now put in two Earths." Now, he has an awful time getting two suns, you finally get him to a point where he gets two suns. Now you get him to get two suns and two Earths, and now you get him to get two suns, two Earths and two moons. And then you get him in there. It's very peculiar; it may be the first time you'll ever get three-dimensional visio. His visio up to that moment might have been completely flat.

PC: Mm-hm.

Now, what do you do about the darkness? What about the darkness? Yes sir, you have to double-terminal darkness. Don't get one sheet of darkness, one sheet of darkness and say — with two planets on it — and say that's double-terminaled. Get a piece of darkness and a piece of darkness, and a planet and a planet. Double-terminal the darkness too.

LRH: Find any old dirt or anything up there?

Now, what are you interested in by doing all this? You're going to get somatics just by putting two suns up there. Yes sir, you're going to get somatics by putting up two Earths. But you're interested in the lines because they're there. It's the hidden influence of this universe: the line, the missing line. Those lines are there, they show up and they have mass. And it's lines.

PC: No, they look very, very clean.

You ask somebody to get the concept "Isn't it too bad how the people — how human beings don't have lines amongst them?" Just get them to get that concept, by the way, and they're liable to get the darnedest set of somatics; they're liable to see lines springing up amongst people. The lines are there! That's all; they're just hidden.

LRH: Mm-hm.

Now, let's go into it a little bit further. What is the primary control operation of the MEST universe? The primary control operation of the MEST universe could be said to be this: distracting attention to nothing. If you can get somebody to distract his attention to nothing, you've gotten him into a position where he won't have a second terminal and therefore no energy line and so he will decay and fade away.

PC: The left — the right-hand one's hard to get.

Now, how do parents do this? They say, "Johnny, look out what you're doing!" He's just sitting in his wagon minding his own business. "Look out what you're doing, Johnny!"

LRH: Mm, well keep putting it back there to get it.

How does that distract his attention? Well, he's got his attention on some MEST and pulls it off the MEST to a person. Because the person is capable of reason and the MEST is not capable of reason, his attention is pulled from MEST to people.

That, by the way, is — if you checked bodies on an E-Meter, you'd find out one-half of the body is one sex and the other half of the body is the other sex according to the E-Meter. It's very fascinating.

If you want to make any workman real nervous, if this man customarily works with high speed and dangerous machinery, you just make him — want to make him good and nervous and so forth — you get him walking away from his machinery or any place away from his machinery, you'll make him nervous enough. But get him when he's right there at the machine, walk up to his shoulder, and say to him suddenly, "Say, Joe!" Hm-mm. Blrrrrrr! Because you've made him unfix his attention from something he knows he must not unfix his attention from. And if you do this to him very often, he is going to be in horrible condition. What is nervousness? Nervousness is distracted attention. People say, "I am distracted." Why are they distracted? Distracted attention.

PC: You've got me thinking about that. Now, how will I ever get these corners back here.

Now, the important thing, as far as aberration is concerned, is the sixth dynamic, but the most important thing of that is the solid object as far as the actual somatic is concerned. The missing thing is the line, the hidden flows of particles.

LRH: But you know what it will be. You're not supposed to think!

So how would you, how would you go about this? You would pull his attention off the solid object to a person and then you would correct him about what he had just said which puts his attention on the intervening space between the two people where there is no line. You've got him. You've put his attention on, as far as he's concerned, nothing. And you've also put his attention onto another nothing which is the past. And you see how that operation's done?

You know what'll happen if you check somebody on this. If the right-hand side is (this is something you don't have to know) if the right-hand side is pretty badly out of communication, why, it's doing a life continuum on Papa or Grandpa, like that. And the left-hand side is pretty bad off and so forth, well, you've got a life continuum on women. But when you're running (Mama, Grandma, something like that) but when you're running a case and you find out the left-hand side runs and the right-hand side doesn't run, why, you know — have you ever noticed that? A stroke case? That's a stroke case, you know? I mean, one-half of the body is functioning, the other half of the body isn't functioning, so forth? The half that is functioning will be intimately connected with somebody who's had a stroke. All right, now just bluntly, I don't care whether the preclear says so or not, it just works out that way, that's all.

The actual aberrative factor is the unpredictability. of MEST, but people are blamed for this, because people go around distracting people's attention from MEST. You know, they argue about MEST, they worry about MEST and they — but — and so on. But they argue with other people about MEST and they keep winding everybody up on big flows of maybes.

So that if the left-hand side of the body was functioning, there's a male member of the family who's had a stroke. That's all there is to it.

All right then, what's this all about then? Then we get people as the apparent thing, and the next thing we get is the past as being an apparent source of aberration, and it is, but that's because people are always directing one's attention to the past. How do they do that? They say, "You said and I said, but you didn't say what you're saying you said now. You said something else. And in the future, I want you to be very careful never to do that again. Now, I want you to remember this. And the reason I'm punishing you is so you remember this and in the future you will never ..."

What's the matter with this person then? Is he imbalanced? Are his flows unbalanced or something like that? Well, no, no. You show — you'll see this very marked, though, in some cases, and — that don't immediately show up as having had a stroke. They've had one, one time or another!

The — that's — it's being done in the present, but it's putting it right into the past, and that's adding a circuit in, you see. That's punishing somebody so that he won't do something in the future. Well, that's into the past.

LRH: Got those corners?

Or they say, "You'll have to correct your English because you just said something or other, something or other, something or other," and so on. Therefore, instruction which is beaten into somebody actually merely removes him into the past and cancels him.

PC: Yep.

If you — you could probably beat a child hard enough and often enough to a point where he'd never be able to figure anything. He'd just be all circuits; he'd be all circuits and he couldn't be anything. Couldn't even be himself.

LRH: Real good?

So the optimum method of instruction would be to have him fit the data to the material universe as he learned it. That would be the optimum method of instruction, wouldn't it? You'd have him experience the data with his own action and beingness as he learned the data. The ideal way to instruct in botany would be with flowers, with herbs and so forth, not so much from a text.

PC: I've got one.

You'll find it very interesting, for instance, that if you take a student who has studied for a long, long, long, long time — run this one on him: Have him take the textbook, have him take and change the textbook into him. It's fascinating. Try it sometime. Have him take one of his textbooks and change the textbook into him. Of course, he — what he's trying to do is make the text-book the same as he is. Or just have him mock up there, with the textbook admiring him. He's admired textbooks all the time but no textbook ever admired him, so it's a one-way flow.

LRH: Get the other one.

It's like you cure people of bad occupational disorders by having their tools admire them, or four-terminal their tools and you'll get the flows of sound and that sort of thing. That is, double-terminal their tools. All right, or change the tools into them. Have the tool there and have the person appear. All right, the — all these would be methods, you see. But it's the MEST universe.

See, now, this is — this is a little trick here. This is getting the control centers balanced in present time. And if you kept this up, and made him keep fishing for the other corner, you'd come out in the long run with the control centers balanced.

Now, the worst thing in the world you could do to an individual would be to distract his attention to a hidden line. Why, nobody would ever be as cruel as to do this, but they say, "You know what they're saying about you behind your back?" "There's a lot of gossip, there's a lot of rumor going around at this time that . . ." See, hidden lines, hidden lines, hidden lines, hidden lines. Let's all go crazy quick.

If you want to know something about control centers, they're all there in AP&A; it talks a lot about control centers, a subject that's very, very unimportant: GE; how's the body built; what are the various control centers of the body.

You can never, under God's green earth, use a hidden line for a terminal. A person actually depends for a large amount of his energy as he operates in a body on a second terminal. He must interchange with a second terminal. As he gets such an interchange with a second terminal, he figures he doesn't have energy. That's why loneliness is bad, although loneliness isn't terribly aberrative. That's merely a scarcity of people.

Somebody starts talking to you about nerve reflexes, though, what are these nerve reflexes? They're sub-minds; they're old circuits and control centers.

You get somebody who doesn't like people, by the way, there's such a scarcity of people, you'll have to have him throw people away before he'll accept people. There's a terrible hunger for people. Watch a little baby, he just loves people. All right.

If somebody comes in, no feeling in this elbow and no control on this hand, what's that mean? The control center's shot over here on the right-hand side.

Now, let's take a look at this, then, in terms of directing attention. We distract attention to people, then they distract attention to the past or to a hidden line. So if we're looking for aberration, we look at those hidden lines, don't we? Where are those hidden lines? And we process, process as to get hidden lines, and that's really what's wrong with a V.

Got it yet?

Your first analysis of the V, he thinks he's defending himself from every-body, from people. He isn't defending himself from people; he's defending him-self from MEST, really. Or he says, if he's real bad off, he's defending himself from hidden communications, hidden communications, hidden communications. That's what he says he's defending himself from. He's not defending himself from hidden communications. He's defending himself from perfectly good, valid lines! And the second you start double-terminaling them you'll find out that those lines are pretty big and pretty solid and it's MEST at the base and so forth.

PC: There's one over here on the right, there...

Don't forget there are three kinds of space. One of the things that a V gets into is a vacuum. Every time you throw a mock-up out there, it disappears. You could make any V get mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, until all of a sudden one appears. I won't say how many thousand mock-ups he'll have to put out there to get one to appear, but it's plenty, plenty of mock-ups. Okay.

LRH: You just keep putting it back there.

Now, let's go in straight from that data into how you exteriorize a V and why he doesn't exteriorize. I can tell you a lot about V's. I'll make this word of warning (I've said it before here), anytime you find your V a little bit spinny, throw him into Step VI, next-to-the-last list of Self Analysis — a bunch of mockups — and then take him back onto Step V. What's Step V as it exists now? Is it any of this stuff I've been telling you? No, you've been sitting here very patiently and you haven't heard the piece de resistance: How do you work a V?

PC: . . . and the left side here .. .

A thetan can be what he can see. A thetan can see what he can be. A thetan doesn't have to be what he doesn't see. What a thetan doesn't see, he doesn't have to be.

LRH: You just keep putting it back there.

Now remember, I said, "thetan." If he sees it with his eyes, that's all right. Something else saw it; he didn't. That's the way he gets around that. But if he sees it as a thetan, he'll have to be able to be it.

PC: . . . the left-hand — back.

A communication point is also a space point, so beingness and communication are the same thing. So therefore, perception and beingness to a thetan are identical, same thing. What he can see, he can be.

LRH: Keep putting it back.

The definition of space is a viewpoint of dimension. Therefore, one has to have a viewpoint before he has anchor points. And that's what your V doesn't have. And that's the biggest scarcity in the world, is viewpoints. Your V doesn't have a viewpoint.

PC: I know it's there.

Two ways you can give him a viewpoint: one's to bring him into present time, and that's make him hold on to the corners of the room and not think, let his circuits scream, which is a Step VII. But a good technique anywhere in the bank to get somebody to present time: get him interested in those corners of the room. He'll get nervous and he'll get upset and so forth.

LRH: It isn't even important to get that side in present time, but we will. Feel it.

But by and large you have on your hands a mechanical difficulty; you have starved lines, no light or admiration in them. Don't have any light in the lines; the lines are all bunched up and you have the bank to some degree collapsed on him. It's a mechanical problem.

PC: Yep.

If you're going to solve this V's body, you're going to have a picnic; you're going to have a real picnic because you've got all the GE's lines collapsed and all the V's lines collapsed.

LRH: Finally connect?

So you want this V out of his body as soon as possible, and let's not take him out of his body Tuesday when we can do it today. Wouldn't that be wonderful if you had a technique? You'd take your most occluded case and have him out of his body, and he'd know he was out of his body five or six minutes. See, wouldn't that be wonderful? Gee, I would like to tell you here today that we have such a technique, so I will.

PC: I know the feeling of it.

The missing definition in physics was space: viewpoint of dimension. The local yokels have been running around yelling about space, energy and time, and they never said what space was. What is space? Well, let's get awfully simple and we'll say it's a viewpoint of dimension. Well, what marks the dimension? That's an anchor point, and it's the distance from the point of view to the anchor point that is the space. Right?

LRH: Get somebody else to feel it from the other side. Now, have two dinosaurs feel it, start to feel it.

What's wrong with a V? You'll find him all identified with everything. Well why? Why is he identified with things? Well, that's because there is too little space, see? Too little space. What's this tell you immediately? There is too little viewpoint, then. All right, if there's too little viewpoint, what's the matter with his anchor points? Well, they work in reverse; the MEST universe has gotten into him and defeated him one way or another, and his light starvation and a lot of other things. Every time he tries to put out his anchor points, they disappear. Of course they just go into this light-starvation vacuum. He's been in space; he's had all sorts of things happen to him and each one has convinced him that he can't put any anchor points.

PC: Two what?

So you don't only — you — this boy's in a bad way, see? He not only doesn't have a viewpoint as a thetan, but he doesn't have any anchor points. So where the devil's his space? Well of course it'd be lovely if you could bring this boy to present time. It'd just be wonderful if you could just bring him to present time. You're not going to get him to present time. The reason why you're not going to get him into present time is, the space is too light-starved and the lines are too tight. And if you start pouring too much admiration into those lines, those lines start opening, and the second they start opening he starts to feel like he's squirreling because he goes into one of these frenzies of pain things and he feels like he's going crazy, something. And then you have to drop into Case Level VI, then you bring him back. You could fool around with this for a long time. You don't have to. I did already. I put in a lot of hours on this, and found out it's not profitable! The case was about the same level on the Tone Scale before as after.

LRH: Dinosaurs.

Oh, I did all sorts of things. I got him to process Fac One cameras: one camera facing the other camera, both of them being MEST, you see, and getting four cameras, so the hidden communication line between the two cameras would show up and the sound would run out, and we got lots of lovely somatics and we did get a glandular change and all that, but nothing happened really. He wasn't out of his body.

PC: Oh, yeah.

No viewpoint! Well, if we can't have a viewpoint, by golly, we can't have a guy exteriorized, because there would be no space for him to exteriorize into, will there? Well, if we clip out a few postulates, maybe, you'd think this would be good? No. If we work Self Analysis for a long time it will be all right? Yes, yes, that's true, that's true. You're just feeding the bank gradually and pleasantly enough and so forth over a long enough period of time, he'll eventually get out by uncollapsing lines.

LRH: Two big dinosaurs. They start to feel it. See, it's dark. There must be something in that corner; this is adjudication. Let's just speed up the process instead of fishing. Have these two big dinosaurs...

Well, if there's no viewpoint, there must be some other mistake in thematter. You should be able to create a viewpoint. Some mistake. Should beable to use the room as a viewpoint. Well, he can't see! Why can't he see?Well, because he can't be. Well, if he can't be, then he can't see. Very, verytough, very tough. So must be something else; must be some other mistake.Must be something else; must be some way we could solve this thing becauseotherwise we're just going around and around in circles and have taken along time at it, and it's all very difficult. So is the V making another mistake?Brother, he sure is. This is idiotic. The first time the V notices this hewill almost shoot himself in anguish when he realizes it — one of those simpleones. The V is what's holding on — the thetan of the V is what's holding on toeverything and is everything. And he doesn't know it. He thinks it's the body.Now, let me go into that quietly and smoothly. A Step I exteriorizes apoint. Well, beware of these guys that exteriorize as a point because that'snot so. A thetan isn't a point in this particular universe. He just thinks he is.

PC: Yes.

He's got a theta body but a person can actually get out of his body and then get out of his theta body. He's got a body. He's got a body. It's a composite of all sorts of things.

LRH: . . . and have them start to feel it and then suddenly say to each other, "My God, no! That's Turnbull feeling that!" And run like hell! Have them do that now.

He's also got a personality. What personality is it? It's a pers — the same personality you're looking at, modified. It's modified how? Well, in a human body he knows he has to act more human because he's being observed. And so he just relaxes a little bit and he's much simpler and he thinks of himself as kind of cute. And he all of a sudden spots all of these boxes and so forth around that he's got these circuits in, and so forth, when he's out of his body. So he just thinks he's a little bit cuter and he feels freer and he feels a little sadder when he's outside of his body.

PC: Here they've come to the other end, yeah

As a V exteriorizes he's usually — gets out into a — and he gets a past death or something will fall in on him or something like that, and he'll feel kind of sad about it all. Well, he's afraid of being anything. Big trouble, besides the mechanical problem, it shows up as fear of being something. You say, "Be this and be that." Well, he can't see it so he doesn't know, and so he has to know the data to see it, and then he can't see it because he can't know the data, and all that. Big trouble here.

LRH: Now, have two crocodiles come up there to get your anchor point that you're trying to put up there, and have them suddenly notice it's you, and get down and pray.

And this, his mistake — this is, this is one of two mistakes — the mistake is that these somatics which he has and these perceptions which he has and this sensory equipment which he has and these nerve lines which he has belong to the body and he's trying to move out without taking them with him. They're his as a thetan. He is this network of circuits. He is this network of nerves and lines. He is this thing. He is a complex mechanism if you ever . . . Why, it would a — it would take a master mechanic weeks to draw the design of what the thetan considers his head! Now, that is not the optimum state for a thetan, to be all fixed up like this, so the thetan has to be audited. But he'd better be audited away from the body to get him away from the GE's bank.

PC:Well, the other one's gone.

But what's this body compared to this thetan? Well, it's just a hulk. It's just like a corn husk. And when he starts to realize this, why, he'll say, "Gee, this is real silly of me." He'd say, "You know, ha! I've had this — I always had this little sinus tickle, and so forth, and I move out and I've got this sinus tickle. I move out of the body and my sinuses tickle. Well, how can my sinuses tickle if I'm out of the body?"

LRH: Well, get them both there now. You get that corner yet?

Well, they do. And, "I always have this funny feeling in my chest, and I was trying to leave that with the body when I stepped out of the body!" Of course, he's doing this kind of — he isn't telling you this. But he's got it in his chest. That's — that's him!

PC: Yes, but it seems to be in the wrong place.

It isn't that the thetan has lungs, but he's got a sensation there which happens to fit in the vicinity of the lungs and when he's in the body, it's irritating to the lungs. You move him out of the body and here he is outside of his body, and he's got this horrible pain in his chest. So you audit him as a thetan to get rid of the pain. And that's very easy to do, because he simply reaches over and he says, "For gosh sakes, here's this pain." He couldn't get through this MEST to grab hold of it, he didn't think — and he says, "Here's this pain. Oh, what do you know, it's a little box says — it says something on it; I don't know. Well, throw it away, anyway." I mean it'll be something silly like that.He plays games with himself. He's got all kinds of circuits all set up.He's got all — is this guy complex as a mechanism. He's got himself several personalities. He's all equipped to be anything, except he doesn't dare be anything because he's got to figure it all out first. That's his first mistake.

LRH: The corner's in the wrong place?

And his second mistake is he thinks he moves. That's — that sounds silly, doesn't it? He thinks he moves.

PC: Yeah.

Of course, everybody knows they move. V walks down the street, he, naturally, he goes over to the door and he opens the door, and he goes out and he walks down the street. He's moving. That's obvious, isn't it? Well, it's very obvious, but it doesn't happen to be true! What's moving? You're talking about a viewpoint of dimension. What's moving is the viewpoint of dimension. So what is moving in this case? The street. The street's moving. Why? Your V is using the anchor points of the MEST universe, and he's so dependent upon them that you aren't going to get him anyplace unless you let him use them a little bit. So, you know, get that as the pri — this is real idiocy.

LRH: Well...

He — he never moves! He has never moved throughout all of time, but his environment has moved. That tells you right there how to process a V. That should be just snap, and you know how to process a V.

PC: Yeah, I'll put it up there again.

You say, "All right," to this fellow. You've got him sitting down in the chair, and he's just taken his hat off. And you say, "All right, now, move Nelson's monument under you."

LRH: No, that's all right. Now, you've got it in the wrong place.

"All right," he says, "but I doubt if I ... Well, mmm-mmm-mmm. It doesn't seem very real, though."

[to audience] I'll just do fancier auditing than you'll ever have to do.

"Well, that's all right, move the Amazon jungle under you."

[to pc] Have two yeggs — you know, cosh: boys, gangsters .. .

"Oka " y.

PC:Yeah, I've got them up there.

"All right, now move Peking under you. That's good. That's good. Now move central Canada under you. That's real good. Now move the North Pole under you. That's good. Now move the Washington Monument under you. That's good. Now move St. Paul's Cathedral under you. That's very, very good. Now move the Nile under you. That's good, that's fine. Now how about — how about Afghanistan? That's real good. Now how about the Pyramids? Okay. How about some palm trees down in the South Pacific? That's very good. How about the east Indian Ocean? Move that under you," so on.

LRH: All right, all right. Have them holding that out of place, that corner where it's out of place there?

In other words, you go on in this line. Every time he gives you, "Uh-huh," why, you move him to something else.

PC: Oh, yes.

He says, "Say, you know, I'm outside." He says, "You're not kidding." He says, "You know what happened? I was just standing there. There's the waves running down there! Yeah, I'm — I'm out."

LRH: Now have them holding that out of place until they suddenly realize who they're doing this to, and have them both blow their brains out. Okay?

Now he isn't — now here will come this beautiful interlude. Now here will come this interlude. He'll say, he'll say, "You know, I didn't think I was out because I've still got my lumbago. It still hurts; my back still hurts, and why is my back still doing . . ." And he'll look around and he'll say, "Well, the body is back there and it doesn't hurt. Well, you know that body is just . . . Well, this is me! Hurrah, hurrah! I think I'll go and sit down on a mountain some-place for a couple of thousand years and recover!"

PC: Yes. I've got them back there again, now

Now, how do you audit him? You audit him just the same way you audit any other thetan; there is just more wrong with him as a thetan. You've been trying to get him out as a point. He's not a point, he's a body. He's the whole universe.

LRH: Those are back in place now again? Okay, can you get both corners now?

Now, how long do we keep this up? Move this under him and move that under him? Now, understand this, never say, "Move over the" or "Be over the monument." Say, "Move the monument under you." "Move the environment" is the key to all this — "Move the environment," and he'll move around like a dream. He just audits like a dream; there's nothing to this. You give him a few of these — most of these V's — you give him a few of these and they say, "Well, well, well, well." They start to get real excited. Why? Because they're really out.

PC: Yeah, near enough.

But remember, they've started using the MEST universe as anchor points and they're depending upon the MEST universe to keep their anchor points apart, so what? So the MEST universe is also depended upon to keep the distance apart between their facsimiles. Oh, isn't that horrible? I mean, this guy has got an engram bank and he's depending on something else to keep his engrams apart, and nothing is going to keep his engrams apart or off of his body or off of him as a theta body.

LRH: Oh, good. Now how about being over Tasmania? Just make your body comfortable there a little bit more, shove down a little bit more .. .

He's going to be sailing around out there over the east Indian Ocean, and all of a sudden he says, "You know, I just — still got this space opera engram hanging on my jaw." And you say, "Well, all right. Now let's see, let's be over Zanzibar. Now let's find a palm tree there in Zanzibar. That's real good. That's real good. Now take that facsimile and park it eight feet from the palm tree. Now, you got it there? Get that distance fixed right there, right at that palm tree. Eight feet, not eight feet and one inch, now just eight feet. Got it there fixed? Okay. Now, you get it fixed and don't let it move now! Now, be over the Washington Monument. Snap."

PC: Mm-hm.

Now, you say, "You over the Washington Monument?"

LRH: . . . so your head — lay your head back. All right, that's right.

"Oh, yes, yes, yup, I'm here" and so on and so forth. "You know, I used to think I was afraid of — hoop! Whoops! I am — I am a little bit scared of height, yet, but ... I used to be very scared of it."

PC: I'm more comfortable this way, actually.

Now, you say, "Where is that facsimile?"

LRH: Well, just so you can let go of your head. Can you let go of your head?

"Oh, that's back there in Zanzibar."

PC: Yep.

"Oh," you say, "it's back there in Zanzibar. In other words, you're depending on the MEST universe to keep these things apart, huh? Well, how about you taking a couple of these facsimiles and pull them apart and tell them to stay apart? Okay, you did that?"

LRH: All right. Now let's be over Tasmania.

"Yeah, they did too!"

PC:Yes.

"Well, how about picking the rest of the facsimiles off of the back of your neck there, and those past deaths off of your feet, and the time the auto — well, just take that automobile off of your face, and a few of these things and put them out here and put them at exact distances, one from another."

LRH: All right, let's be over the Amazon jungle.

"Okay," he'll say. New idea to him. A new idea!

PC: Mm-hm.

"Ah," you'll say to him, "now that you're out there in space or wherever you are, you can put out a beam. Why don't you try to put out a beam?" "Oh, I couldn't do that." And yet he can.

LRH: Let's be over Nelson's monument.

But what do you do? You just put him through the drills of the rest of the steps. But those I've just given you are absolutely essential to the V.

PC: I've got a monument but it's not Nelson's.

Now, I do not know whether your cases will uniformly crack under this. I believe, however, that you will have made an essential error if you don't find the V cracking immediately. And that error is simply this: You have mistaken a V for a VI. What is a V? He not only doesn't get mock-ups easily, you could say offhand he gets them patchily or none. He's pretty bad. He's pretty bad on mock-ups. He isn't putting out anchor points. When you tell him to throw his anchor points out they disappear. That's a V.

LRH: Well, that's all right. Now let's be over St. Paul's Cathedral.

What's a VI? A VI is neurotic. What's the test of being neurotic? That isn't saying he's damned. What is the test of being neurotic? It's simply this: He's unable to easily recall the things in the next-to-the-last list of Self Analysis: something really real, the time he was really in communication, and so forth.

PC: Mm-hm.

And boy, don't you ever let me catch you missing on that one. And you get a guy and you get him all the way down to W, don't test him as a V, test him as a VI, just as routine. Don't miss on it, please, because I've seen a preclear audited for eighty-five hours without anybody asking him, "Can you remember something real?" And he almost fell off the end of the couch with complete delight. He remembered something real; he remembered coming in the door of the Foundation that morning. So we shot the auditor and went on with the business. Well, anyway, there is your test. Don't test a V. Just ask him to remember something real; he'll maybe struggle around with it and ask him the list, and so on.

LRH: Let's be over the Cape — Capetown. PC: Mm-hm.

If you get to Case IV, Level IV, just skip ... And, he would — he doesn't do IV easily, just skip over it. Ask him something really real. And then you go on with this other act.

LRH: Let's be over the Indian Ocean.

But if he's very, very bad at something really real; in other words, he's got a communication lag index there of fifteen, twenty seconds on each one of those questions, half a minute on something really real, the time he was really in communication, and all that sort of thing, boy he's a VI.

PC: Mm, pretty rough.

And what you want to do is go right to work with your little book, and say, "All right, now here's an exercise about time. Now, can you remember a time that was a long time ago? Can you create a scene that has to do with a long time ago? That's real good. Fine. Create a scene for that and create a scene for something else." And we go on down the line and we do some Self Analysis, and after we've done some Self Analysis then we simply move him out of his body by moving the MEST universe under him, and it gives him a viewpoint of dimension. He's completely overlooked the fact that he is his own viewpoint of dimension.

LRH: Let's be over the North Pole.

And you take a lot of these I's; you ask them to step out of their heads and they're pretty foggy and they don't know whether it's up or down or so forth. And they tell you they're a little point and they can't change their minds rapidly and they don't appear to you to be any I. You could tell a I. They're young most of the time. Kids mostly.

PC: Mm-hm.

And you say, "Well, all right, now where you got your facsimiles? You got a package of facsimiles there?" And this I will say, "Oh, yeah, I've got all of those facsimiles right here and . . ." Oh, he's all right. I mean, he's got these facsimiles wherever he is and he's got all this bric-a-brac, and he says, "Yes, I've got circuits and that sort of thing." But you say, "All right, now where's your facsimiles?"

LRH: What you got?

"Why, I left those with the . . ." He doesn't know he's outside; he's kid-ding you. He doesn't even vaguely suspect he's outside. He's got some kind of a dim idea that maybe he's outside but he's already read a big long book on astral walking or something of the sort, and that's what he's doing and he's not a I. So don't let yourself get fooled on that.

PC:Well, I get an ice cap with a pole on it.

The test is, does he come out complete? And what's complete? That's fully equipped with circuits and facsimiles and, in many cases, somatics.

LRH: Okay. Now where is it located with re — in relation to you?

How do you move him out, then, at the hot — toughest level to move any-body out on? How do you move him out? By moving the environment piece by piece under him. You'll find at first when you do this, he'll be scared. What do you do about this?

PC:It's just below my feet.

He says, "But it doesn't look real to me." Don't pay any attention. You do this until he finally breaks loose with a bright smile and says, "What do you know, that is the Indian Ocean. There is a ship! And look at the sea gull sitting on the bell buoy." And he's gotten real interested. You'll find him doing all sorts of things. You'll find him wanting to go down over the water and doing this and that and so forth. Let him, it's a big adventure.

LRH: Just below your feet?

Is a V's perception any worse in the body than out of the body? No. What the devil is he using those eyes for and what's he got glasses on them for?

PC: Mm-hm.

Well, that's something you'll have to answer. I'm sure I wouldn't have any-thing to do with his pretending to be human.

LRH: Now are you locating all these below your feet?

What's the primary thing that you can expect to change in him? He'll think maybe he hasn't got any goals or anything of the sort, or that he's liable to fail. Or he may come back and say, "What do you know, I can do some of the things I wanted to do!" What you do is run him on the rest of the steps out of his body, not in his body. And what happens if he gets sent back in his body and gets stuck again? You move more environment under him in that kind of a drill. Now, these are geographical locations on the face of the Earth, and the further apart the better. And the further from his MEST body, the better.

PC: Mm-hm.

And do you do the exercise of double-terminaling him with his body? That is, Step II? Well, you can omit it if you want to for a long time because when he gets close to that body he's liable to snap in. He's going to say, "Wait a minute, I'm outside of my body." Or he's liable to get such a re-echo, because he's the same shape, size and general description of the body.

LRH: All right, locate them now in front of your face. Now, let's be over Nelson's monument again.

Now, another thing a V has is terrible feeling of pretense. He feels he's pretending. He feels like everything is pretense. Everything is insincerity and everything is pretense and it's all pretense anyway, and that's all there is in the universe and that's horrible. Well, listen, don't let this worry you. That — that is the result of people telling him, "Oh, it doesn't hurt either."

PC: Yes.

He cuts his finger; little kid. He says, "It hurts! It hurts!"

LRH: Now let's be over the US Capitol building.

"No, it doesn't hurt. You're just pretending. It doesn't hurt," this, that, so on. "Oh, it's not really as bad." In other words, invalidation of his aches and pains and sorrow.

PC:Yes.

Now, you can expect a V to have been very badly invalidated on the subject of sorrow, unhappiness and so forth. He hasn't been permitted to be unhappy; he hasn't been permitted to be sad; he hasn't been permitted to be anything. Boy, he's really restricted to the dickens. So don't feel strange if this character is in a little bit sad shape when he comes outside. How do you remedy this? Well, you can look on your mimeographed sheet of steps and you will see there Step III and Step IV — Step IV, Step III given to him while he's out of his body will remedy this.

LRH: Now let's be over Sydney.

And that, I hope, pending further reports from auditors saying, "We are not able to pronounce the word 'move,' or something," I hope that finishes and buttons up the case of the V.

PC: I'm stuck there some.

Thank you very much.

LRH: Hm? What's the matter?

PC: I seem to be stuck there.

LRH: You seem to be stuck there over Sydney?

PC:Yeah, no, I can't seem to get Sydney.

LRH: Can't seem to get Sydney?

PC: Mm.

LRH: All right, get Melbourne.

PC:No. But we'll say it's there.

LRH: You got Melbourne?

PC:Yeah, there's houses there.

LRH: Mm?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, get Brisbane.

PC: I seem to get Auckland.

LRH: All right, make it Auckland. Take a look at Auckland.

PC:Yes, I see it.

LRH: Be right over Auckland.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, be over the north end of Auckland.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, be over the south end of Auckland.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Be over the harbor.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Be over Wellington.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, be over Perth, Australia.

PC: Mm, I've got something there.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Be over the school building at 163.. .

PC: I've got it out in front of me. That's where you want me there? Mm-hm.

LRH: Mm-hm. Things getting clearer to you? Changing any?

PC: No, that's about the same.

LRH: About the same, huh?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, be over the London Zoo.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Did you catch yourself having to know where the zoo was before you could be over it?

PC: Yep.

LRH: All right, be out in front of 163.

PC: Yep.

LRH: Be in the office at 163.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Be right inside the door of the schoolroom at 163.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay. Be in front of my house.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Be here just in front of the platform.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: What happens when you do that?

PC:Well, I just seem to be in front of the platform.

LRH: Mm-hm. Now have you any chronic somatic?

PC:Yes, oh,.a beaut.

LRH: Hm?

PC: Every time I get to do any sort of thing my leg starts to jump around.

LRH: Did you just start this?

PC:Do I just start it?

LRH: Did it just start?

PC:No, it hadn't started at all this time.

LRH: It hadn't started at all?

PC: Mm-hm. No, it hasn't always started, but after I've been at it for a little while .. .

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC:. . . it starts to .. .

LRH: Did you have any feeling of being out here?

PC: Ah, well, I don't know.

LRH: Did you or didn't you? Yes or no?

PC: Well, I lost contact with this part.

LRH: Hm?

PC:Yes, I think I did.

LRH: All right. Did you have a feeling of having a lot of things with you while you were out?

PC: No.

LRH: You didn't have that feeling?

PC: No.

LRH: Oh. All right, put two thetans out in front of you saying to each other, "Now I have to abandon my home universe."

PC:A bit difficult, yes.

LRH: All right, keep putting them out there getting very pleased .. .

PC: Two thetans?

LRH: Yeah, just two circles of light, saying to each other — get them both saying it simultaneously — saying to each other, "Now I have to abandon my home universe."

PC:Well, these .. .

LRH: Just keep putting them out there saying that to each other. Hm?

PC: These light-toned little men like Wrigley's Chewing Gum.

LRH: Well, okay. Okay, keep them there and keep putting them there as lights .. .

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: . . . being pleased about abandoning the home universe.

PC: Shaking hands with each other, naturally?

LRH: Can you get them? Have you got them, each one of them, saying that to the other one?

PC:Well, I can know they're doing it, yes, mm-hm.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right, keep putting them there, and get that feeling of pleasure coming from each one of them about abandoning the home universe.

PC: I can't get any pleasure in them, but I can get a great deal of pleasure myself with the idea of it.

LRH: Oh, you can get a pleasure at the idea of it, huh?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, you get the pleasure out there from one of those to the other one.

PC:They keep sticking together.

LRH: Well, keep sticking them apart. I mean, just put new ones there all the time. Keep putting new ones there, put new ones there. And each time you put them there, have them both say, "Oh, how wonderful it is to abandon all of my facsimiles." This time have them say, "How wonderful it is to abandon all my facsimiles."

PC:Well, every time I put this bloke out here, this one runs into it.

LRH: All right, keep putting it out.

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Just keep putting them out. What's the postulate they're giving to each other there?

PC: How happy they are that we're leaving the home universe.

LRH: Abandoning it! Not just leaving it!

PC: Abandoning it. Oh.

LRH: Abandoning it forever!

PC: Have I got to get these two out here before they can — I can get them to postulate, you know.

LRH: Oh, you get them, you can just get that postulate out there. Throw the postulate out there. Getting it now?

PC: Up to a moment ago I had quite a sad feeling.

LRH: Oh, no. Well, what do you know. All right, let's put it out there again. Put it out there, "How happy they are to abandon forever and never see again the home universe." Getting it now?

PC: No, I'm putting that postulate out there and I can get one over here reasonably well, but this other bloke — hard to control.

LRH: Well, just keep putting them out there until you can get them both there. Still get the feeling of sadness on it?

PC: Just a moment ago I got another one. It's silly, isn't it. I nearly found myself putting a feel — a postulate of how sad I was.

LRH: How happy you are.

PC: Hm. I'm actually getting a little steadier now.

LRH: Good. Now change it to, "Abandon my memory and never know who I am again."

Get them both out there. "How happy you are to abandon your personal memory and never know who you are again."

PC: These two thetans are saying that to each other?

LRH: Yeah.

PC: How happy they are?

LRH: Mm-hm. They're you!

PC: Oh!

LRH: They're you. How happy — how happy you are. Mock yourself up twice as a thetan, in other words.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Abandon all the facsimiles.

PC: This bloke on this side seems to do all the talking. Could I have this fellow doing it too?

LRH: Yes, sir, both of them. Get them feeling cheerful about it.

PC: Oh, yeah, they're all happy as Larry now.

LRH: Real happy now?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, how are we doing?

PC:Yeah, they're out there.

LRH: Doing better?

PC: Being quite as happy as they can be.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Just real happy.

LRH: That's you now?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Oh, I'm real happy, yeah.

LRH: You're real happy?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Never have any memory or anything?

PC: Facsimiles? No, I wouldn't.

LRH: No facsimiles?

PC: No.

LRH: I said no memories.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now get them having no personal identity anymore. How happy they are never to have a personal identity anymore.

PC: Mm. They're jumping for joy.

LRH: What's the matter?

PC: They're doing handstands — happiness.

LRH: Okay, okay. Now, now we got that. Let's be over Auckland again.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Be over the north end of Auckland.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: South end of Auckland.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Over Tasmania again.

PC: Mm-hm. I get an .. .

LRH: Hm?

PC: I get an island with a lot of .. .

LRH: Now, let's be real close to it.

PC: Well, all I seem to get is a forest.

LRH: You got a forest!

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Pick out a particular tree and be close to that.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: You got it?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: All right. Now be a little distance away from that tree.

PC: About eight feet.

LRH: Okay. Now be over Hobart.

PC: Over Hobart. No, I'm figuring again.

LRH: Yes, sure, you're figuring. Let's be over Hobart.

PC: Well, I know I'm over Adelaide now.

LRH: All right, now let's be right here.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: I want to show you something. Your demonstration here so far and up to this moment, I have been using the word be, if you will notice. And if you have been recording this as a way to do it, I — you've missed the point.

We had a circuit working here like mad, didn't we?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: Let's see now how far is Hobart from the — let's see. And where are the forests? But yet you did have some little feeling, didn't you?

PC: Yes, very definitely. I lost consciousness of this...

LRH: Yeah, all right, all right.

[to audience] So we have a level of workability. We're actually not working a V Level Case here. The auditor that's been working this case and hasn't had him out of his body and working well should be shot anyway. Because this isn't a Case Level V I'm working with, it's about a III with a tape.

By the way, these tapes are terribly interesting. You'll run into somebody sometime or other, and everything they read you off — the postulates they read you off — they're reading. You want to find out about that. It's an automaticity gimmick that they have worked up. And it's one of the favorite ways of fixing up a circuit.

[to pc] You haven't got a tape, but a couple of times when you were mentioning these little men, you said, with great surprise, these little men with chewing gum, they were — I tell you to get a couple of thetans . . .

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: . . . and so on. Well, that's a specimen of automaticity. Well, that can go so far as everything the person is going to say appears on a little tape up here, you see, and he reads it off. And he says, "How are you, Joe?" See? That goes so far, but I'm just showing you a gradient scale of automaticity. We have a certain amount of automaticity, so we've got a circuit here. The second he says something like that, we say, "All right boy, we're going to be working on this basis: We got to know where we are before we can be there." Now, you've seen that circuit to some degree in action.

Now, let's alter this technique down to a very proper technique.

Okay, shut your eyes now.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now move St. Paul's Cathedral under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it to the right.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it to the left.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move Nelson's monument under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, move Tasmania under you.

PC: I've got something moving under me, anyway.

LRH: Yeah, all right. Now, move Hobart under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, now move Auckland under you.

PC: I've got the whole lot moving under me now; I've got the world.

LRH: Oh yeah? Well, how about easing back under now and getting out — picking out Auckland and moving it under you.

PC: Okay.

LRH: Phew! Okay, picking out Auckland and moving it under you.

PC:Well, I'll have to dispose of this around .. .

LRH: Hm? Dispose of it?

PC: Mm.

LRH: Well, just bring it up to your face. Move it up closer to you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Does it move further away when you do that?

PC: No, it comes up.

LRH: All right, just move it right on up close to you. Now move it up close to you to a point where you've got your .. .

PC: Got it on the end of my nose now.

LRH: All right, you've got — where's, where's Hobart?

PC: Maybe it's the point I've got my nose stuck to.

LRH: Okay. Move yourself much closer to Hobart.

PC:Well...

LRH: What's the matter?

PC: This is too silly for words. I've got a ball here with — with a Plasticine map on it. Like a .. .

LRH: Oh, where is that? Where is that?

PC: Well, I've just got it here.

LRH: Yeah, I know, but where is that globe?

PC: Where is it?

LRH: Yeah, where's the original of that globe you're using there?

PC: Oh, I don't know.

LRH: You got that? Have you got that at home?

PC: No.

LRH: Hm?

PC:Oh, wait, yes. I have too.

LRH: Yes, yes, you have too. Well, I didn't tell you to look it up on a globe. Look it up on this globe.

All right, now let's move over St. Paul's.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Move it under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, move it right up close to you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, let's inspect the engraving on top of it, or whatever you find there on top of it. I don't know what's on top of it, but there might be a cross or something up there.

PC: When you said that, I — there was a cross there.

LRH: All right. Well, what is there there? Just look it over; I don't know.

PC:I've got a gold cross.

LRH: Okay, let's look it over.

PC:Well, it just seems to have rich writing on it; I don't know what the writing is.

LRH: All right.

PC: Rich writing.

LRH: Now let's move it much closer and see if you can get a little tactile on it.

PC: Nah.

LRH: Okay, okay. Now let's move Nelson's monument under you.

PC: Well, I got a whole swag of monuments then.

LRH: A whole bunch of them, huh?

PC: Mm. The most outstanding one was theone I've just seen in Edinburgh.

LRH: Well, let's move Nelson's monument under you. Now, let's move Piccadilly Circus under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, let's — let's put St. Paul's Cathedral a certain distance from Nelson's monument. Let's put a brace between them and block them apart.

PC:Well, I've got a — I've got someone riding a horse here. Is that Nelson's monument?

LRH: Well, put the — put it at a certain distance.

PC: Yes.

LRH: All right, now be over the school.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the school under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now move the top of the school — the edge of the ledge — directly under you so that you're sitting on it. Just move it up under you so you're sitting on it.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, let's inspect the view.

PC: Oh, I can see the street out here.

LRH: All right.

PC: Postbox.

LRH: Now, let's be the same height above the street, but move the middle of the street under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the middle of the street under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the middle of the street under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you. What you got?

PC: Well, I'm realizing that I've got to move over to the building to move the edge of the building under me.

LRH: You're realizing this now, huh?

PC:Well, I have been doing that.

LRH: Ho. All right, now let's get a tactile on the edge of the building.

PC: Mm-hm, I can imagine the feel of it.

LRH: All right, let's just feel it, though.

PC:I get very conscious of this chair as soon as Igo do that.

LRH: Mm! Mm-mm! Would it be very upsetting if you did feel it?

PC: No.

LRH: It wouldn't, huh? All right, move that edge of the building under you again, and this time just above the thing put a mock-up.

PC: Move the edge of the building under me?

LRH: Mm-hm. And put a mock-up just above the tactile and feel — the thing you're going to get a tactile of — and then feel the mock-up. In other words, mock up a tactile for it. Do that?

PC: Mock up someone on the edge of the building, have them feeling the building?

LRH: Well, oh, all right, if you want to do it that way.

PC: Is that what you want me to do?

LRH: Sure.

PC: Yeah, I can mock up someone standing there.

LRH: All right, now move the edge of the building under you again.

PC: Now I'm sitting on the edge of the building.

LRH: All right, now move that place they just touched under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now touch it.

PC: I just become very conscious of the chair again.

LRH: Uh-huh, direct communication. Okay. Now, move a lorry out here under you on the street.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got one?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Keep it moving on up the street.

PC: Keep it moving on up the street?

LRH: Well, keep moving it on up the street.

PC: I've got it moved under me; I can move it on...

LRH: Got it moving under you?

PC: I've got it under me here.

LRH: Huh?

PC: I've got it under me — under me here.

LRH: You're in the chair?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: And it's under you here?

PC: Yeah.

LRH: No. You move the lorry under you in the street. Is the street under your chair?

PC: No, I've got to get out there to get over it.

LRH: That's what we're doing, isn't it? You've got to get out there to get over it.

PC: All right. I've got the street back under me.

LRH: Oh, you've got that, now?

PC: Yeah, I've got the lorry, too.

LRH: You've got the lorry? Huh? All right, now, let's just get that lorry moving along. Let's just check up on this conductor.

PC: Oh, I had an ordinary lorry. I call a lorry one that carts shingles.

LRH: Okay.

PC: I check up on the driver?

LRH: Mm-hm. Check up on the driver. Now move the driver's head just in front of yours.

PC: Wait a minute. I've got this all tangled up again. The street .. .

LRH: Just take ahold of his head and move it in front of yours. Just move his head in front of you.

PC: I've got his head up here.

LRH: That's all right.

PC: Mm-hm. Head. God, what a queer looking head!

LRH: You're in this chair?

PC: Yep.

LRH: Huh?

PC: Yep.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Well, you have a lovely mock-up sitting there. There's an automatic mock-up; it's wonderful, wonderful!

That's real great! You don't have to feel anything, you see, when you do that. Now, look-a-here, you just move out there and grab ahold of the lorry, move it under you. Just move that lorry.

PC: Bring the lorry in here and move it under me here?

LRH: No, sir! You leave that lorry right where ii is and move it under you.

PC:All right, I'm — yes, I've got a lorry moving out from under me and I'm out in the street moving it under me.

LRH: Okay, all right. Now move the inside of the lorry around.

PC: Now, I jump back here again each time.

LRH: Oh, uh-huh. All right, now reach out and grab the inside of a lorry .. .

PC: Yup.

LRH: . . . and move that around you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that moved around you?

PC: Yep.

LRH: Look at the signs.

PC: The sides?

LRH: Signs, posters, advertisements.

PC: Mickey Mouse came into my mind for some reason or other.

LRH: Hm. How's the inside of this lorry look? Here's the bus, look. Look, is the bus in motion?

PC: Now, I've got ahold of it and I'm moving it around me.

LRH: Now where are you?

PC:I'm out in the street.

LRH: You're out in the street moving it around you. Well, you grab ahold of a real bus; they don't bite. Now the one; grab ahold of that bus, move it under you. Just hold it under you and let it go on down the street.

PC: The more I try to do that, the more I become conscious of this chair.

LRH: Oh? Oh? All right, push that lorry away from you.

PC: Yep.

LRH: What happens when you do that?

PC:I can push it up the street.

LRH: Push it away harder.

PC: It keeps coming back again.

LRH: No! Push it away real hard!

PC: Yep.

LRH: Where are you?

PC: As soon as you said that, I'm back in the chair.

LRH: Okay. Now push it away real hard now, and keep pushing it away. Now fight it. Shove it off of you. Move it away from you! Got it?

PC: Let's see, I sort of swing out there and then here and .. .

LRH: Mm-hm, mm-hm. All right, now let's move it away from you. But I tell you what you do. Let's move — let's move the street corner out here as far away from you as you can get. Just give it a hard shove and move it way away from you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: You got it? What happened?

PC: Well, I'm moving it — the street corner further down the street.

LRH: Moving it further down the street?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Uh-huh. Is it detached from the sidewalk or anything?

PC: Yeah, the whole thing is sort of gone away from me. I pushed it away from me.

LRH: Oh, you did push it away from you that time?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Well, good! Grab ahold of it and move it under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: You got it now?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, how's that? More satisfactory?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, I want you, without any orders from me, to move yourself over each one of the five continents. And everybody is going to be very quiet and we'll make sure nobody eats your body up. And just move yourself over each one of the five continents, move yourself down close, take a look and then move yourself over a couple of oceans, and then move back here with no further communication to you, via this body. Okay?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, let's do that.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: You back?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, what happened?

PC:Well, I visualized each of the places in turn, and .. .

LRH: You visualized them, or did you move them under you?

PC: Well, they were under me — under me. I went down to them each time.

LRH: Oh, you did. Okay.

PC: Mm-hm. And I just came up again. Had a feeling of coming up.

LRH: What did you — what did you see?

PC:Well, in each case I'd seen a scene of a particular place I was in. One was Iceland with a scene of ice; that was an easy one.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: China — a Chinese scene. And in France.

LRH: Were they in motion? What was your feeling of reality about these scenes?

PC:Oh, very, very slight.

LRH: Hm?

PC: Very slight.

LRH: Very slight?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Your reality is very slight on these things?

PC:Very slight, yes.

LRH: Was it better than it had been before?

PC:Oh, yes, definitely yes. I had a feeling of lifting up and down through them.

LRH: Good, good, good. All right. Now this time why don't you — why don't you — you know, there's a number of islands here...

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: . . . in the British Isles.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: And why don't you just sit there and move now to the — way you do it, you know — just move these — move Ireland under you and one by one, every time you see an island — every time you see an island or a new one you'd like to move under you, you just move that one under you. And just go rapidly in sequence and take a close-up look at each one of these.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: And we won't tell the transport companies what we're doing here, because they lose money on this. Okay, nobody will disturb you here or make any noise in the room.

PC: Hm. These places or something seems to move under me, but I can't seem to get down to it.

LRH: Oh, having a rough time.

PC: Mm.

LRH: Well, did it occur to you to move it up to you?

PC:No, it didn't.

LRH: Okay, let's go on the same tour again, and each time now let's move it up to you.

PC: We've gone haywire here.

LRH: What's happened?

PC: Well, it seems when I got to Germany I seem to be sitting on the boat. And on the boat there's a German — kinda got this — memories of childhood ideas, too — and there's a German with one of those hats with a spike on the top. He's leaning over the front with a woman, both in old-fashioned dress.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right, what happened when you went over these islands?

PC:Well, there seemed to be scenes come in to my mind. I seemed to see scenes very similar to what one would see in the cinema.

LRH: Mm-hm. Did you move these .. .

PC: One cinema I've seen did come in actually.

LRH: Mm-hm. All right, did you move these islands under you?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Each time?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Did you move yourself down to them?

PC: Yes.

LRH: Back away?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: What was the change in the island?

PC:Well, I just seemed to land in a certain particular part of the town that I cared to move under. I moved a town, I moved France under me.

LRH: Yeah.

PC: And I seemed to go down to a particular part of a town of France.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: And this particular instance, a scene — a cinema scene came in.

LRH: Oh, I see.

PC: Hm.

LRH: All right.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, now let's move — let's move that town under you again.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that under you?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right. Now let's take this cinema scene and pin it to some of the — or move it a certain distance away from some of the furniture around that town.

PC: I've got a whole lot of chimney tops underneath me.

LRH: Oh, all right. Now take that cinema scene and put it alongside of one of these chimney tops.

PC:I've plugged it down one, little bit.

LRH: Okay.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay, now move that town away from you several miles.

PC: It's gone, anyway. Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, now take the facsimile of what you've just seen .. .

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: . . . and what — are you near anything now?

PC:No, I've just got a facsimile there.

LRH: You've got a facsimile there? PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Well, move this monument you've been calling Nelson's monument near you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now put this on the horse's nose.

PC: In the form of a piece of rig? Mm-hm.

LRH: Mm-hm. Got that facsimile on his nose?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move St. Paul's Cathedral under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got it?

PC: Yep.

LRH: Now take the facsimile of having put that on the horse's nose. You got that picture?

PC: I've got the picture with the facsimile — I've got the horse with the facsimile wrapped around his nose — yes.

LRH: The facsimile of it, you know.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: This is a picture of it. All right, now put that on the cross at St. Paul's.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now, move 163 Holland Park under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Now move the chair under you.

PC: Move the chair under me? The chair?

LRH: Yeah, the chair on the platform under you.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Got that?

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: All right, sit down there.

PC:Yeah, I'm fine there.

LRH: Hm?

PC: Yes.

LRH: Okay. Now do you see any differentiation on facsimiles and anything else?

PC: Can I differentiate between the facsimiles and .. .

LRH: Yeah, the facsimile you're making of something, and the picture you get of something when you move it under you. You get the difference between these two things?

PC: Yes. Mm-hm.

LRH: There's a difference between the .. .

PC:There definitely is!

LRH: Yeah.

PC: Mm-hm.

LRH: Okay. Okay, that's all.

PC:Good.

LRH: Well, just tell me, did you — do you have any better sense of being out this time during this drill?

PC:Yes, definitely. I felt the sense of movement.

LRH: Mm-hm.

PC: Moving out away from the chair.

LRH: Mm-hm. Okay, okay. Let's get another run at this.