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CONTENTS Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) Cохранить документ себе Скачать

SOP: Assessment (continued)

Standard Operating Procedure (SOP)

A Lecture given by L. Ron Hubbard on the 13 December 1952A Lecture given by L. Ron Hubbard on the 13 December 1952

Now continuing the third lecture, December the 13th, continuing assessment and the use of Standard Operating Procedure, you’ll notice that an assessment, just at the beginning of the case, will not show up as much as an assessment taken a little bit later in the case. Run the case a few hours, and take another assessment.

Well, you’re very lucky people, that’s all I’ve got to say. This is the first lecture of the afternoon of Saturday, December the 13th.

The reason for this is, is you’ve shifted the values of the preclear and as we saw once before, you take off an effort band of some sort or another, and an emotional band will show up and so forth.

By the way, who kept a good set of notes? Anybody keep a real good set of notes on this? You got a real good set? Good. We’ll be looking into that.

Now, you are assessing against a cycle of action. As you well know, a cycle of action is from 40 to 0.0 on the tone scale, but is… any area of it can be a small cycle with the same names. Whether you’ve got the broad cycle, the grand scale… Well, you’re really just assessing against the grand scale, so you don’t have to worry anything more about that.

This afternoon I would be very happy to tell you all about Standard Operating Procedure. And uh… will. In fact, I will here for several days.

In your textbook you’ll find the cycle of actions… the cycles of action are listed. There’s Start, Change, Stop. Creation, Alteration, Destruction. Be, Do, Have. Space, Energy, Time.

But, very interesting that Standard Operating Procedure is actually so easy. Uh… I really don’t know why I’m talking about it. It is so easy.

These are some of them. And you could really carry forward an assessment using each point of each cycle of action, if you wanted to. You could take all the cycles of action and then take every noun of which you had any possible knowledge. You could feed these things through and it would… you see, you could expand this assessment out. It isn’t a finitely small or a finitely large thing.

Now you may or may not believe that. I really don’t care what you believe, because the best little handy, jim-dandy convincer of which I know is simply to take Standard Operating Procedure and take three, four people and spring it on them. If you took five people, at least two of them will become theta clears in a very short space of time using Standard Operating Procedure.

Really, what you’re trying to do is… you could take this very simple assessment, such as I gave the preclear the first day here – you take this relatively simple assessment, you just keep going over that assessment.

And the other three would fall on down the track, on down the steps and you’d probably get… you might or might not get in that short a series, a couple of uh… Fives – pardon me – one Five. Probably wouldn’t get a Five on that short a series. I think a Five runs about one in fifteen, or something like that, cases. Uh… but you might get a Five.

Or you can take a great big assessment, that’d be every point of our cycle of action, and every cycle of action, against every noun that you could collect anyplace. Be interesting, wouldn’t it?

You might get one of these cases that’s nailed down, sealed in, uh… bracketted, wicketted, uh… grouped, smashed, occluded. You might get all sorts of things. But uh… it’s very doubtful. And if you did get one of those cases, what would you use to solve it? Vitamins? Um… something very „Well, it must be an unusual case. He… every time I ask him to do one of these things he just doesn’t seem to be able to. Maybe we ought to try diathermy. No – it doesn’t work. I don’t know. Couldn’t have been anything said in the lecture about a case this tough must have something unusual. Nah-uh.“

That… that… oh, boy! You could probably take up – if you gave these things fast, you could plot this all out, you would have quite an assessment on your hands.

You won’t find anything unusual, I’m sorry to tell you. Adventure is dead. You just go on and use some more of it.

Now it’s probable that I will get down and build you a chart for assessment. Build you a big chart for assessment, so that your… your chart could be worked rather automatically and it’d give you the obvious mock-ups which you had to care for. But you could build that chart yourself without any trouble by simply taking cycles of action played against all available objects and nouns.

And if you just get plain downright desperate on this Step Five case, you just get terribly desperate about the whole thing, then you could sit down for a couple of hours a day or make him sit down, or have somebody else sit down with him for a couple of hours a day, and just run off SELF ANALYSIS using its lines to create illusions. In other words, to do mock-ups on the lines that are contained in SELF ANALYSIS – not to recall incidents. It says „recall incidents“ – „Can you recall a time that…“

Now to go any further than this walks one into abstraction. You really needn’t go much further than this to get a good assessment of your preclear. Once you’ve gotten the assessment, find out what he can do.

And the way to use that book now is simply to say, „Can you create a mock-up in which“ – you know – „you enjoyed something.“ So you put something out there and feel enjoyment for it. And then it’s got a list of perceptics down at the bottom of it and you try to – and one of them says „external motion.“ So you see this thing moving. And another one says „sight.“ So you get a good look at it. And another one says „sound“ and so on.

For instance, we didn’t have an assessment on a preclear here and so a preclear’s hands started to disappear on an E-Meter.

Well, it doesn’t matter too much if uh… you can’t see these things or feel them very much. A fellow can get some sort of a vague idea they are there. Vague, no matter how vague. So he could just go ahead then and uh… go on down the list no matter how vague it is. And if he starts boiling off like mad, have him see him behind him. You’ve just excited too many flows in one direction.

What should you do? The preclear’s sitting there and he’s changing postulates or something of the sort, and all of a sudden he says, „My hands are starting to go cold.“ Well, you find out what postulates he just got through changing. Just go back over this and find out what postulates he’s changing.

So, just put him behind him and that stops boil-off immediately.

Uh… if you hit one, why, let’s find out if we can’t do some mock-ups that make this. He hit a postulate, „I don’t have to die,“ and his hands started to turn cold on him. Oh, boy! What do you do? You just run the living daylights out of dying. You have him dying and his relatives dying and so forth.

That… that… you could get down to that level of uh… uh… incredible uh… apathy about case and it would still work out if you did that. That is the last… last ditch. You won’t have to go any lower than that. You either use the techniques you’ve got, or if you just throw in the sponge and give up and all that sort of thing, why you’ve got SELF-ANALYSIS as a drill. And he’ll be out in a month, six weeks – I don’t care how long it’d go – it wouldn’t matter. It wouldn’t matter how long it would go.

Well, if you were doing an assessment at the time, or if you just had him on an E-Meter, you could just mention – let’s see, „Mother dying; Father dying; Grandfather dying; Grandmother dying; women dying; men dying; children dying.“ All of sudden, you hit ‘children dying’ and maybe the machine goes Booooooom’. Well, you’d save yourself a few minutes of time there by just selecting out and having children die. Do you see how that would work?

And as you start processing people with Standard Operating Procedure Issue Three, you will be occasionally tempted to dive into the incident which presents itself, oh how nicely! Nah-uh! No! And you will get ahold of cases that insist on diving into the incident that presents itself – use a club. You don’t want any truck with a real, real convincing facsimile or any part thereof.

By working with assessments – whether they’re done formally, or you stop in the middle of a session, sort of, and just ask him a few odds and ends of this and that – why, you find lots of material.

And don’t get the idea that because he turns on somatics while running mock-ups that the two have to be connected. They don’t have to be connected. There doesn’t have to be any relationship between a mock-up and what’s wrong with the preclear. In fact, it is the upper crust of flippancy if he’s got a bad foot to run mock-ups on his left ear. Just make sure that you use all geometric patterns and designs and the reason why you use all geometric patterns and designs is simply to give him complete coverage so he’s avoiding nothing.

Well, this preclear’s hands went cold on him. Nothing was done about them, because no check was made on the… no check was made on what postulate he had just been working with. And if that hadn’t been immediately discovered… Of course, the obvious thing is just start him handling ‘hands’.

And as you begin to process your preclear you will occasionally find out he gets much worse. Oh, boy! He can get worse with a vengeance. I don’t think you can make him as much worse as you could on a misuse of some old techniques. But you could ruin him – if you don’t know what you’re doing. And even knowing what you’re doing, you can still ruin him.

Now anywhere in any mock-up that you can possibly slide it in, slide in electricity, ribbons of energy, sparks and beams. Any place you can slide these in, on a mock-up.

Number One, don’t have any qualms about ruining somebody. That’ll ruin far less.

You’re working ‘hands’, well, let’s put sparks on the toes. You’re working ‘bodies in coffins’, let’s put some blue light and some red sparks and things like that, top and bottom of the coffin. Let’s go ahead with this, in other words, and uh… and uh… work it out – IN TERMS OF FORCE. And that, to a thetan, is force, flow, electronics, and so on.

And Number Two, if you found out he was ruined – oh, of course, lots of preclears come back and tell you they’re ruined. Yeah, that’s to get more processing. That’s the old gag – if you don’t give them more processing, they go… then they go around and tell all the neighbour they’re ruined. And then if you still don’t give them more processing, why they even get up to a level of practically physical attack.

Now if you’ve run into very heavy flows of course, you can run hoses or firehoses or something. Or you can simply go on working with objects. You’ll be surprised. You see, I’m having… it’s a little bit difficult communicating… communicating a simplicity to you. I get questions which tell me that you want a… you want a highly regimented uh… ‘I don’t have to think’ variety of thing. And to tell you the truth, you can’t process somebody without thinking. Uh… of course, you can just be an E-Meter and just sit there and be an E-Meter. But I’ve never seen an E-Meter make anybody well yet, unless there’s somebody reading the meter. It’s a very necessary piece of equipment to an auditor, but uh… unless he’s willing to look at the needle and find out what it’s doing and why it’s doing it…

Of course, their method of saying „Please process me“ is to ruin you and your reputation sometimes.

All right, now some preclear – as I said, we… we suddenly start to get drops on everything across the boards. Well, the best can be said for this preclear is this preclear drops on everything. And some other preclear, we get nothing but indecision, indecision, indecision. Well, for heaven’s sakes! Know something about the anatomy of ‘maybe’. Of course your preclear is going to be very indecisive about creation and destruction and everything else if this preclear’s sitting in a lot of big ‘maybes’.

But so – so the preclear is ‘ruined’ by your processing. It’s as I say, Number One – So what? He was ruined by the MEST universe before you got your hands on him.

So let’s get an object here and then an object there. And let’s work until we can tell if an object is one place or if it’s another place.

The chance that he has in coming to you and recovering from, is so… was so slight, it was one in hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of trillions. His good fortune in coming to you is such that you needn’t ask him for any license to survive, and you needn’t apologize. You have complete liberty on the thing.

The first thing about a ‘maybe’ is that it’s confusion of location. It’s a confusion of beingness, a confusion of doingness, a confusion of havingness. And it’s too badly balanced to resolve itself. In other words, it’s all balancing everything, balancing everything else, and the fellow just can’t make up his mind about it.

How anybody could feel strange about charging the price of the moon or feel that he’s compelled to help somebody, when all these people exist to be helped, or is compelled to try to convince somebody that what he’s doing is efficacious – convince somebody with discussion or proof or anything of that sort – I’m sure I don’t know. Because the use of Standard Operating Procedure Issue Three, and a complete good grasp of the theory behind it brings about this kind of a fortuitous condition. You’re cause.

Well, the way to do that is to differentiate. And the way you differentiate is to put things… one thing in one location and then a thing in another location and then another thing in some other location. Simple, simple – nothing to it.

And any time you think you have to go below the level of cause in action, you’re gonna fall on your face. You’re Cause. And the second you start squirming around, apologizing and trying to prove it to somebody, and being all upset because he got worse or something of this sort, you’re just making a big, dramatic statement „I’m NOT Cause.“

Take the first Q, Q-l. If one can do that, one can differentiate. If he can do that, he can start and stop at will. See, all those cycles of action proceed out of Q-1 – very intimate. And it’s much more important in processing to make something change in location or to unmock some real universe thing than it is to indulge in a lot of speculation about it.

You get your case in good shape and your frame of mind in good shape, there isn’t anything can phase you – nothing, including a 16-inch gun going off straight in your face.

This is action processing if there ever was one. Keep things moving, if you possibly can.

And in that frame of mind, the funny part of it is, it isn’t anything esoteric. Your preclear looks at you and he doesn’t see an apologetic look on your face, and he doesn’t see you all ready to get down on your knees and say, „Oh, yalla, yalla, yalla – AMA, AMA – please accept us, please accept us,“ or whatever that old German freak song was. „Hooble-Goobla! Please accept us!“

And in an assessment, you don’t have to be very particular, because the points necessary to be gotten on the case will show up with exclamation points with great ease. You won’t have any trouble locating something on this case. You’re going to get a drop. And if you just ran over all eight dynamics on „Are you willing to create?“ And the fellow says, „Under what circumstances?“ Or „When would I create it?“ Or „What am I going to do about it?“ He’s nervous about creating it, that you can bet your bottom dollar. He doesn’t want to take the responsibility for creating, so he’ll create it for somebody else. Get the idea?

Uh… he says, „This guy can’t do anything for me. Something has to be done for him.“ He just looks at you and your attitude and your tone of voice and he knows immediately that you’re going to do something for him. And you’re going to do something for him – it’s just inevitable that you’re going to do something for him. Why, he goes ahead and lets it happen about ten times as fast.

So, we’ve got an upset about creation. And what’ll solve that upset about creating things? Just creating mock-ups, that’s all. Just let him go ahead and create ‘em. Then take another assessment and find out what specific things are standing in the road.

But he looks at you and he sees doubt and uncertainty and request to survive and all that sort of thing written all over the place, and then he’ll hold it up for ten times as long as he should have.

This person says, „Destroy. Well, why would I destroy it? Why shouldn’t I destroy it? I don’t know whether I want to destroy it.“ He’s nervous about destroying it, isn’t he? He doesn’t want to take the responsibility for destroying it. Therefore he can’t handle the force of destruction concerning it, and it becomes a very, very simple thing, then, to process him or to assess him. You just get him to a point where he can at least make something disappear. You’ll find out that he’s most willing to destroy a worthless object. Get some object he’s utterly certain is completely worthless to everybody and everything, including himself, and then he’ll get a clean destruction on it, Let’s take a chewing gum wrapper, or let’s take some chewing gum, let’s go find some chewing gum under a theater seat somewhere. And then let’s very carefully take this chewing gum and make it get smaller or bigger. Or drop it someplace else, so that it will never be in the ken of man again. Well, that is next door to destruction, see? And by this gradient scale work it on up.

It’ll happen! I’m just talking about his havingness – the duration of his havingness of aberration extends somewhat in the face of your apology for being able to do something for him.

So, as I say, you could do the Grand Scale assessment, or you could do just a little assessment. But you certainly better ask him about these things: the lists of relatives and associates as contained in the HANDBOOK FOR PRECLEARS and the list of body parts contained in the HANDBOOK FOR PRECLEARS. I’ll get around to writing all these things up for you.

And when I say you can ruin him utterly and completely, I’ll tell you just exactly how and what will happen any time you figure you utterly ruined a preclear. You got scared. You put your courage in your hip pocket and you ducked away on that low-level mockery on the tone scale which mocks the upper part of the tone scale. On that level of the tone scale it said, in so many words, it said down there at the bottom, uh…“I am afraid to hurt anybody.“

You should ask him about these things. You should ask him about the dynamics, his body and peoples, that are at the trouble, more or less, with everybody. And you’ll run slam bang into the computation of this case immediately. „Would you create Grandma?“ Wham! „Oh, you mean you wouldn’t create Grandma?“

You ever want to manage an enterprise, don’t man it – if you really want it to go, if you care about it at all – don’t man it with somebody who’s scared to hurt somebody. Because he’ll wind up by butchering them – just butchering everybody – inevitable! His effort not to hurt will result in murder!

„I felt bad ever since Grandma…“

Let’s just look at one manifestation of that. He holds apart and doesn’t mention something, and he lets it grow and he lets it grow and he lets it grow and he’s holding it apart. And he’s holding it apart. He’s found out that somebody in the shipping department annoyed him. And instead of knocking it into line on the floor of the shipping department, going right to it and saying „I don’t like this, and why are you doing it?“ he just lets that annoy him.

What it’s dropping on is just ‘Grandma’, see? „I felt bad ever since Grandma departed this life.“

And the fellow in the shipping department finds out that something is going on along this line, and we get this further and further hold, hold, hold. What have you got? A condenser action. And sooner or later it’s going to go „Ka-paw!“ and the poor guy in the shipping department might never really have understood what was wrong at all. He wouldn’t even have had any inkling, until one day the condenser charge is built so great that the resultant shock knocks him flat on his face, knocks him out of a job, knocks the shipping department into a cocked hat. All because of what? It’s because your manager, the first moment he was annoyed about something that was going on in the shipping department, was too damned cowardly to go into the shipping department and say so. So he chalked it off against this fact: He says, „Well, I don’t want to hurt his feelings.“

What do you do? You didn’t have to go any further than that. We’ve got him stuck right away in an assessment on Grandma. You can go the rest of the way, if you want to assess the rest of the case, but you discovered a HECK of a DROP! That’s all you’re looking for is a WHALE OF A DROP! And all you see is little, tiny drops.’ And you want that thing going off the pin!

That is the biggest curtain of all. The guy brings that down and he doesn’t tell himself what’s true: „I’m too cowardly to do anything about it.“ So he substitutes that for: „I don’t want to hurt his feelings,“ a big rationalization. He doesn’t go in there, the shipping department doesn’t know what It’s all about and then one day „boom!“ A lot of guys get blown up in the resultant. And the operation might just blow up too.

And by the way, I’ll… I’ll give an assessment just as long as the machine is still in working order. But when it starts to be threatened as to its working capabilities, why I’ll drop the thing and start processing. That’s a good rule to follow. Just don’t… don’t be… don’t think you have to snoop in with a magnifying glass into the preclear’s life. What you’re looking for is probably as obvious as this MEST universe.

Why? Because all sitting around the operation you’ve got this sort of thing of back-off, back-off, let it build up, build up, don’t say anything… we don’t want to hurt anybody, until all the lines in the place are going so haywire that a fellow never has a chance in there. That’s all. He never knows whether he’s right or whether he’s wrong. He knows the boss won’t tell him. And he knows if he goes to the boss and the boss says, „Oh, yeah. That’s fine. You did a good job, that’s fine,“ he knows he… he hasn’t any security at all of the fact those words are true.

Now how do you fix Grandma? Gradient scale of Grandma. We finally get to a point where we got the… a sidewalk that Grandma once walked on. He doesn’t know she walked on this sidewalk, but he supposes she might have. And what do we do to it? We mark it all up or we do something to it or other. And then we get something else that Grandma might have had something to do with, and we vaguely walk in until we’ve finally got an old, very used, third-rate shoelace that is all worn out. And Grandma’s thrown away, and we’ve got something to do that to. And uh… we can start it and stop it and change it.

Same way with the auditor. Any time he s… knocks off of a case, or any time – this is a very funny one. That I can take any of these cases that are… that I suddenly see going „Zing! Zing! Zing! Spin! Spin! Spin!“ And I’ll say, „What happened?“

And what do you do with these items? You put them in front of the preclear, behind the preclear, above the preclear, to the sides of the preclear and below the preclear and put them at a distance and put them up close. That’s what you do with ‘em. And you change them in color. And you change them in size. And of course you change the object from one object to another object. You change the sidewalk to a cow path. And you change the cow path to a boulevard. And you change the boulevard to an eight pass, super- duper highway which you change back to a cow path which you change back to a sidewalk. Just keep altering this, changing it around, shifting it around. This is really too easy to worry about it.

„Well, we got into this, and we did this and we did that“ and so forth.

But you’re going to say, „Well now, look: In postulates there are various abstract computations.“ And actually, everything above the level of action would be in terms of… everything above the level of action would be in terms of abstracts. And so your abstracts are very, very much to the point. And objects, to shift around, aren’t abstracts. You shift balls and horses and cows and chewing gum and so on. But what about things this preclear says he can’t remember, he can’t forget, he can’t do this, he can’t do that? And this is all abstract.

Number One, it’s usually a Step five auditor that does it. And Number Two, we find out that the auditor didn’t finish the technique. In each and every case so far examined where anything happened, the auditor didn’t finish what he started out to do. He was insufficiently cause to produce an effect.

The only thing wrong with this preclear is the MEST universe; let’s not forget that. You find him here and he’s agreeing with it.

And he got halfway through and the preclear was starting to scream or something of this sort, so he says „I mustn’t hurt them, so I’ll knock off and do something else.“ Oh, Christ!

Your first level of abstraction immediately above… this isn’t the highest level of abstraction. This is the one that’s a merger between objects and thoughts. That’s the first level of abstraction. Up to this moment you’ve got cows and horses and chewing gum and ice cream sodas. Well, what is the first thing you move into, into the field of language, is an abstraction? It’s ‘forget’ and ‘remember’.

Supposing doctor – doctor had a… had a… had a body out on the ta… bodies aren’t important, but just to mention it – suppose he had a body out on the table and he… he had the spine half out or something of this sort, and uh… uh… the ether started to wear off and it was obviously hurting the patient. I suppose he wouldn’t do anything more about the spine because it might hurt the patient further. No, just let him die.

If you were a deaf-mute trying to teach a child, how would you teach the child the meaning of the word FORGET and the meaning of the word REMEMBER? All language is based on objects. Language is symbolized object or condition or state of being. That’s… that’s all language is. Of course, its condition could be an action condition or a static condition.

Courage could be summed up in, one, being willing to cause something and, two, going ahead to achieve the effect one has postulated against any and all odds. There doesn’t happen to be any such thing as failure. There just doesn’t happen to be any such thing.

There’s quite a dissertation on this in SELF ANALYSIS. It’s in one of the later acts; it talks about uh… the… the fish in Lake Tanganyika. It’s almost the middle of the book. It’s not in the test itself; it’s in descriptive, I think, of Act 11 – not Act 11, but list 11 – something like that or List 9. It’s quite late in there, but it talks about language and what language is and what the first level of abstraction would be. We had this nailed down for a long time.

But of course, you all want to agree there’s such a thing as failure so that you can have a reason to fail, so you won’t have to be cause. Tha… that’s… that’s another thing – but there isn’t any reason to fail. There’s no excuse for any failure that ever occurred anyplace in history, except this – except this. There was just not quite enough carry-through and push- through. You can mark the high tide of any empire or of any army in any period in the history of homo sapiens, and you’ll find out somebody, someplace on that track was deficient in guts. And when he was, he lost the whole track. There isn’t even such a thing as carrying on too long in one direction toward the postulated effect. There isn’t even that. There isn’t even such a thing as there are too many odds. That doesn’t exist. Nor… there isn’t such a thing as saying „Well, what I postulated was unreasonable and therefore I have to abandon that goal now because it was unreasonable,“ and so forth.

‘Forget’ and ‘remember’. How do you make somebody forget? How would a deaf mute make a little kid remember. He doesn’t know the word REMEMBER. Every time the kid tries to throw something away, the deaf-mute would give it back to him. Every time the kid leaves something behind, the deaf-mute would give it to him again. And finally, the kid would go into apathy about it and have the object.

No, you have to have a consent to track along in a certain degree of agreement with a whole lot of ‘things in order to sit down someplace on the track and saying, „There are too many for me.“ Let’s just take… let’s just take the simple matter of… in the first place, you found out irrationality at the bottom of the tone scale is becoming MEST with all these rationalizations. And one is MEST at the bottom of the tone scale.

And every time the kid wanted something or had something and was trying to hold on to it you would teach him to forget, simply by taking it away from him and not letting him have it.

Let’s go up to the top of the tone scale and take a look and we find out it’s causation is by postulate. Is there any reason there? No – no. No consecutive logic at all.

So ‘forget’ is ‘not let have’ and ‘remember’ is ‘must have’. Now these reverse on each other low on the tone scale and cause a very bad mental confusion. The guy has been given something, he’s got to remember it and he’s got to remember it and he’s got to remember it. In other words, he’s got to have it, he’s got to have it, he’s got to have it, he’s got to have it. Until, at length, he just goes into apathy about having anything. He really won’t have it and he won’t take care of it, and he really doesn’t remember either. He’s just fading out into MEST. Same way with ‘forget’. He can have things ‘forget, forget, forget’ drilled into him until he gets daffy.

So you say, „All right, now we’re going to reform the habits of the Philadelphia Police Force and change the force utterly and completely.“ Not „we are“ – you can say, „I am.“ Don’t bother to set any time limit on it. The havingness in this case is simply the Philadelphia Police Force. And the amount of time consumed is the amount of ti… amount of havingness of that police force. And you just go ahead and do it! And if you’re strong and tough enough you would simply postulate that it was going to happen. And it would occur.

Now here’s something very funny. If you just demonstrate this to a preclear, very often a large sphere of his thinking will suddenly open up and become very clear to him for the first time, because he’s been taught on the level of abstraction, and never on the level of action.

And down scale from that you would have to go into action and make it happen – and it would occur. And down the f… scale from that, you would say, „I wish it’d happen“ – and it wouldn’t occur. And down scale from that you’d say, „We’ll, somebody ought to.“

„Now you must forget that.“

You see, taking responsibility for something that has occurred is balderdash! So it occurred!

He didn’t know what ‘forget’ meant. And he says, „What’s ‘forget’ mean, Mama?“

Now let’s uh… just look just a little bit further and uh… we find out there was one was wrong and one was right. From whose viewpoint? How can you be wrong from your own viewpoint? There isn’t a single instant anywhere down the last 74 trillion years, really, that you did not at the instant you acted, act to the best of your ability, and actually try to carry through the effect which you postulated one way or the other.

And she says, „Not remember, of course.“ And she goes on washing the dishes. Smart, she is. He doesn’t know what ‘remember’ is either, see.

And you kept falling back from it and falling back from it and falling back from it. Sure – falling short of this goal and short of that one. But you were still trying – until somebody convinced you that it was fashionable not to try. The whole sickening, what we would laughingly call ‘morale’ of the Armed Services in World War II is just some of this – just some of this. It was ‘fashionable’ not to. It was fashionable not to be brave, it was fashionable not to be bright. It was ‘fashionable’.

So he digests this and he thinks this over and he’s got this figured. And he worries about it – probably for days. All of a sudden he comes up with a clarification: „Ha! This is worrying me because I don’t know what ‘remember’ is! I wonder what that funny other word is.“ He says, „What’d you say ‘forget’ was, Mama?“ „Well, it’s ‘not remembering’ of course.“ „What’s ‘remember’, Mama?“

A man could get himself thrown out of practically any officers club by suddenly being brave.

„Well, Willy! How stupid you are. Why that’s… that’s ‘not forgetting’, of course!“

I know one officer that was reprimanded for taking on a submarine three times the size of his ship and sinking it – a Japanese submarine. And he was called in and reprimanded. That doesn’t sound possible, does it? No, we had a… we had a… we… we had a big, big vogue, we had a big vogue of ‘Let’s all fall back and not be responsible’.

Nyeeowwww! And he stays in that spin from there on.

Whereas the horrible part of it was that practically any man there, had he assumed responsibility or assumed or believed in his ability to cause an effect, he probably could have shortened the hell out of the war. And if he’d assumed it a little earlier, there probably wouldn’t have been a war.

The essence of handling memory is ‘forget’. and ‘remember’ at will. That’s the essence of thinking processes, is have or not-have, and that’s why thinking processes seem to get plotted up against time. And why the great – author George Q. Swishbottom uh… takes 180 years to write this book, and therefore it’s a great book. But when you read it, you won’t be able to find anything in it. That’s because he’s so lashed down on the time track on ‘forget’ and ‘remember’ that he thinks words are objects. And the reason he thinks they’re objects is because he’s so fixed and so squirreled on the subject of forgetting and remembering.

There’s just one guy, you see. We’re not… we’re not talking now in terms of… of… of ‘We’ve got to have vast numbers of people’. We don’t have to have, operating in any level to get an effect. It just gets a little more random and sometimes more interesting when you start pouring people in there by the thousands and the millions and the billions.

Boy, he’s really had to remember and he’s really had to forget. This boy has been subjected to more force per cubic inch than anybody else you want to hear of. So it takes a long time, therefore it was a valuable thought. There’s no relationship. A thought is of a wave length and above a wave length. And it can be as instantaneous as the dickens. You get some of these people start thinking when they’re outside and all of a sudden, and they think themselves four or five years worth. Back out the back of their heads and think for the next two three years and then move back in again. They’ve been gone that long and worked out very complicated problems. All right.

But where the auditor stopped, is the first question I ask a preclear who’s in bad shape. „Where’d the auditor stop?“ And we get ahold of the auditor, and we say, „What happened between you and that preclear you was with last night? What happened?“ „Well, I tell you. Every t… every time he went into it, he would scream. And… and it was just the pain was too much for him – that was all. And he would… he would… I’d give him a mock-up on this and he’d start screaming. And… and so on, and he just couldn’t stand the pain.

Now then, forget and remember is your lowest level of abstraction. If that’s the lowest level of abstraction, what is the highest level of abstraction? You could straighten that out with a preclear. It’s just on the basis of having him handed things and having him had things taken away from him. That’s your first mock-up sequence.

And he’d s… start – and then he finally got so he’d start to scream and then he’d go out unconscious. And uh… naturally, I had to change the technique!“

Just mock up two bodies out there and have one give one something, and have that one that’s been given something, give it back. And if the guy can’t mock up, of course you go into black and white processing. If he wants to straighten out language, straighten out that first level.

Ahhhh, why didn’t the auditor just tell me the truth? „I’m yellow. I didn’t want to hurt him“ because I was afraid it would hurt me.

Now there’s an upper level of abstraction. Your top level of abstraction is Interest. Now when I say ‘top level of abstraction’, I’m talking about thought impinging on the MEST universe. And your first border of impingement is Interest-Desire… You can write that down, if you want to, but I told you all about this yesterday. Desire, Enforce, Inhibit. So it’s way up there – Desire. Gotta have.

Do you know that creative processing carried out any distance at all will land a person into such things as a complete conviction that a cannonball is travelling right straight toward their middle, and that it is going to land any second. And they can practically feel the… the… the… the wind of its arrival. And they’re just certain, and sometimes they’ll look at you rather sadly and say „Well, my body is about to blow up and I hope you’ll take care of things a little bit for me. I hope it won’t get you in trouble.“

Well, what are we studying then? We’re studying forget is inhibited having, remember is enforced having, and your highest level of abstraction is a created desire to obtain.

And what do you know? It never does: It just never happens. This expected instant doesn’t arrive. You might know that you were within a split inch of it, but it just doesn’t get there.

And of course, no thetan who even got vaguely – go ahead and write it down, it’s all right – uh… no… no thetan ever needed, for his interest or anything else, anything in this universe.

Now you can just stop and leave him with that expectancy and say „Oh, well, I will stop processing now because I don’t want to hurt you any more. I just can’t stand seeing you squirm and writhe.“

So the top level of abstraction carries with it some other factors of abstraction – the dynamic level is Desire and the other levels of abstraction, in the order of their importance in processing, are Conviction. And conviction, and conviction. Because the modifying and qualifying word for each item is, for any desire, the fellow WANTS, he has to be convinced of an EXISTENCE. In order to want a thing, he has to first be convinced there is a thing. So your conviction is right there next door to desire, all the way around. That’s uh…

Uh… what you do when he gets into that sort of a situation? Do you suddenly change the process you’re using? Umm-umm. That’s not the time for change. Do not change process in the middle of a stream… in the middle of a scream. If the process which you’re using, got him there, the process which you used will get him through it. When you’re using creative processing or postulate processing.

You know, if I were going to give a lecture, somebody said, „Uh… what is the entire anatomy of thought in this universe?“ I would say, „Conviction – thinking processes.“

This doesn’t happen to be true of processing real facsimiles and flows. When they’re coming along, yes, you still chew on through. You’ve got to use those. But you can come… it can get a lot easier on the preclear and he doesn’t get any better. I mean, you can start and turn over to reality and say, „Well now, all right. We’ll process the real incident and that’ll ease it all up and that’ll take that cannonball out; that’s just a few… just a few passes at effort processing.“ Yes, it’ll take it off – um-hmm. And leave him stuck right there. Because you got him in there with one route and you’re trying to take him out with another route – it won’t work.

You know, one of the neater techniques… one of the neater techniques, by the way, is uh… trying to convince people is the same as trying to move them around. Trying to convince them they’re solid or not solid, is making things solid and not making things solid, or making them unsolid. And conviction is a demonstration of existence and a person who is convinced, has been convinced, of course, in this universe, of a trickery. Because the universe doesn’t have any existence except the capability of a thetan.

So you start creative processing. The preclear’s bright and cheerful and sunny – happy and everything else. And you’re just doing fine. And then you say, „All right, now get a tricycle. Now you’ve got the tricycle? Okay, now let’s have the tricycle, start doing an orbit around you clockwise. Let’s have it go around you. Now let’s stop it. Now let’s start it in…“

And the capability of the individual thetan to perceive, to do, to create space and to handle energy and objects in that space. And uh… he probably wants to convince others that the space exists. But that’s the big trick – it doesn’t.

The guy says, „You know, I feel terrible.“

So you go fishing around all you want to for creating an actual space, you can do all you want in that line, you won’t find any ‘actual space’.

And you say, „Well now, all right. Just keep the tricycle going around – just change it in its orbit and… so it goes backwards.“

There’s an agreement on the actuality of space, and that agreement took place out of desire to be convinced. So a very neat process comes out of that. Well, it’s moving people around. That’s your level of… highest level of abstraction is Q-l.

The guy says, „You know, I think I’m going to throw up.“

Of course, the joke is that nothing exists to move them around in, and they don’t exist to be moved around, except as you mock up something to move them around in and to move them around. That’s why the process works.

You say, „Well now, just pass the tricycle on around. Now turn it red – turn it green.“

Lowest level of abstraction then, is Inhibit and Enforce. And then up at the top we get Desire, and of course we get people convinced they desire. Well, how do you handle that? Well, you handle that by moving objects around.

„My God! he says, „You know I can’t stand this!“

One of the neatest mock-ups you can run on a preclear – this really will stagger him – is make him make a piece of space and then make it solid.

And you say, „… And turn it pink, and turn it lavender. Now turn it upside down. Now put a little dolly on it.“

„Get a sheet of space – now make it solid. Now get a cube of space. Now pack it down into a solid object. Now you got a solid object? Make it into a cube of space.“ Neat. Why? Because that’s conviction.

The guy says, „Oh, God! If you only knew how I felt! You wouldn’t make me go on with this!“

And he… if you were to run this in. flows, which you’re not going to run it in, you’d just run ‘trying to convince people’ and ‘people trying to convince him’, and ‘others trying to convince others’. Now that is… is a terrific process. And the reason why it’s a terrific process is very obvious. It’s because it has such tremendous abstraction in its content. It takes in Q, but if you didn’t understand what Q-1 was, you’d get upset about it.

And you say, „All right, now run it between your legs and run it over the top of your head – that’s right. Now let’s have it going around again.“

But uh… the guy exists, he’s got to convince people he exists. Existence is, if nothing… if not force, force making objects, so if he does not have force, people are not convinced he exists. And if he does have force, people are convinced he exists. So when he tries to convince people that he exists, one of his later answers is to smash hell out of him. They find out he exists.

Of course, you’re talking to empty air by this time. He just passed out. So you kind of wait till he comes to a little bit, and you say, „All right, now take the tricycle and put it into orbit around you. Now turn it red – now turn it white – now turn it green.“

Now when he can’t use force, that answer is denied to him, so his inability to use force is a demonstration he doesn’t exist.

He can keep that up for some time. He can just keep passing out and all sorts of things. And every time he gets a little bit conscious, pass the tricycle around him again.

All right, we get invalidation of him is done by force. Convincing somebody is done first by a thought and then by force. Invalidation is: „You don’t exist,“ and convincing somebody is saying, „I do exist,“ or „You do exist,“ or „They do exist.“ And it’s best done by force.

Are you interested in what’s, quote, ‘really happening’? No, you’re interested in what’s actually happening. This is a subject we’re going to have to take up at some length, some length: What’s actually happening and what’s really happening.

I swear to Pete, if you were to go out here on the sidewalk and you were to take the first guy that came along and simply back him up against the wall and batter him until he finally admitted he saw a green toad – (I… the green toad doesn’t bear any resemblance to Purcell, I mean – that was not a dirty crack) – uh… a green toad, the guy would eventually, even if he were practically dying, probably come through and tell you, „Yes, I see a green toad.“ He’s convinced!

What’s actually happening is what the preclear would determine. And what’s really happening is what the MEST universe would LOVE to tell him what’s happening. And you don’t even vaguely know why it is. Was it because his tricycle was run over by a street car when he was young? Was his tricycle, because it was taken away from him, does it remind him of this and that?

And what do they… what do they finally pull – this language is wonderful stuff – what do they finally do to someone who thinks he is outside law? They convict him, don’t they. And when he goes to jail, he gets a ‘conviction’, and he is a ‘convict’. He’s been convinced. That’s their method of conviction, is to contract time and space. They’re trying to make an object. And object is all that is convincing.

You might find this astonishing fact: You’re dealing with wheels, and wheels have to do with some kind of electric… electronic implant way down the track someplace. You don’t care where it came from. The guy can’t face a wheel. He’s facing wheels though, isn’t he? Push him through. The guy’s unexcited about the whole thing. Just keep him going through – keep him handling it. And then the first thing you know, why, what… what do you think happens? If you just left him at that point where he says, „I… I know I’m going to throw up,“ and everything, do you know that you could actually just knock off at that point and… and this can happen: He could go home and then go to the hospital for an operation or something. You know you could do that? Just so you didn’t hurt him, you could butcher him. Just because you were afraid to hurt him, you could kill him.

Now when you walk up to this wall and hit your hea… hand against it like this, you see? You’re convinced it’s there because you can feel the solidity of it. And if you didn’t feel the solidity of it you wouldn’t be convinced it’s there. So when you start doing unmocking, hold your hat, because mock-ups of one’s own universe and unmocking the real universe, laughingly called, produce some singular results.

You start him into a sequence where he’s feeling bad and then you say, „Well, it’s late now“ and you knock it off. And he figures he’s all right. Doesn’t look too bad. He gets up the next day and boy, is he in apathy – in horrible shape and so on. He didn’t handle what you set out for him to handle.

An auditor telling me last night, he… he’d had a guy unmock… unmock a part of a pinhole in the back of his head, and move this pinhole back and forth – a hole back there. And make it a little bit bigger and a little bit bigger and the guy was finally sitting there looking at the chair back. I heard this story a little earlier. The fellow said uh… „I seemed to be in this forest, and then the forest turned out to be the green back of the chair.“ He was looking out through the back of his head at the back of the chair.

I’ll tell you uh… I… I did this one time to a girl and uh… I’d processed her for about three hours. And right at the end of the three hours, I’d – you see I’d made… I’d omitted doing something I should have done. I didn’t intend to process her very long. She was scheduled for a hospital and I got her over it somewhat and got her worry over about it, to postpone that. And I was just working on that – getting careless in re antiquity. I didn’t give her an assessment. I didn’t take the E-Meter and add up on a slip of paper the can’ts – ‘create and destroy on the dynamics’. I would have picked this up, bang, if I’d given her an assessment. She couldn’t do anything to Mama.

That’s unmocking the back of a head. Well, the second you start to unmock, ALL of a preclear’s experience on the track tells him, „No, no, no! It exists! It exists! Look – be convinced! Please be convinced! We’ll do anything if you’ll just be convinced!“ And he really gets scared that if he unmocks, thoroughly unmocks a table or unmocks a chair – you don’t have to educate him as to what to think about this. He’ll… he’ll say, „Maybe I better not do it.“ And you say, „Why not?“ „Well, I don’t know, I just got a feeling maybe I’d better not do it.“

Instead of picking it up on an E-Meter, I picked it up in processing. That’s really, if you want to know the truth of the matter, you can gauge your cases. But that’s the wrong place to pick it up. You want to pick it up on the E-Meter and then you know it’s there. You know that she can’t do anything to Mama;

And the next thing you know, don’t be surprised if hard, solid objects and all sorts of things seem to sort of hail in on him. That’s all the times when somebody backed him up against the wall and said, „There’s a green toad there, isn’t there?“ He finally became convinced.

Right at the end of the session, why I suddenly found out that I’d said, „Now have your mother come in.“ I was just going through this and that and nyeowwww! Well, I straightened her out on it and sort of scanned it out and passed it over. It’s not too unreasonable. After all, it was two thirty in the morning, and I’d only intended to process her for a half an hour, and I’d been at it for about three hours.

Now his immediate and foremost desire, of course, centered on the home universe. And the home universe might have merged over into this one. So his active desire was directed toward the home universe, and then became crossed over into this universe. And many people have never discovered that there was any transition. They still think this is their universe.

And uh… the next morning she was truly, truly spinning – in apathy. Didn’t want anything more to do with Scientology, didn’t have any hopes of anything ever occurring, uh… was furious with her old auditor, was doing a bit of an hallucination about what evaluation I had made out of her old auditor, was very certain I’d been very scathing about the other auditor she’d had – making trouble, see? And… and all of this – and she was in terrible condition. When she left there she was all right – she was quite high. But the realization she ‘couldn’t do anything to Mama’ brought up in processing had sufficiently depressed her.

They… every once in a while they’ll gun around and they’ll talk about everybody being their puppets and everybody looks like… they haven’t discovered yet that it’s a group action. They… they think they made everybody here. And that’s just uh… an inability to differentiate between universes. Their own universe and somebody else’s. Well, they can start to unmock this universe and rebuild their own; they get cured of this very fast.

Now that is inadvertent. I was just unwilling to sit there beyond two thirty in the morning. But get this: I had made a mistake. At the time I did it there wasn’t enough data to really say these things were or weren’t mistakes. But this was about the second or third time it had happened. So I started to check up on it and I find out this is about the worst mistake you can make.

But uh… they will start breaking convictions they have had in the past. And when they start breaking these convictions, one after the other, why these convictions are mostly driven in and upheld by force and they themselves have tried to drive in and make… make other people convinced by using force.

You sail into this case, and you don’t do any assessment. And then you start giving them creative processing. Nooo! You don’t know what you’re running into at all, what can’t they create, what can’t they destroy. You’ll find out all sorts of things.

Oh, this gets to be gorgeous after a while. A preclear… a preclear is a… you start to unmock and mock things up after a while – umocking particularly – he’ll run head-on sooner or later into a feeling like he’d better not do it. It’s… it’s uh… „What if it all – umm-umm,“ because it’s on the thinnest of gradient scales of agreement.

So, the next morning, she’s in apathy. Takes this other auditor about 24 hours of talking to her very quietly and me talking to her and so forth to square her around. And all the other auditor did immediately was just push through Creation-Destruction mock-ups of ‘Mama.

One of the things you do is to make him go through the action of convincing somebody that something’s solid. Make him pick up some empty space and convince somebody that something is solid about it. And he’ll get the weirdest sensations. See, the joke is, he’s done just that. He gets the essence of making a… a gimmickahoojit. You… you… you’re going to have a game and you… you have to agree with somebody and so on. After a while, if you’ve got a lot of solid objects on which somebody’s agreed, you can pick up one of them and hit him over the head with it.

Bang! She snapped right out of it, up scale. This was after this girl had been out of her body, too. Interesting, isn’t it?

So behind every conviction lies a little pool of treachery. And don’t be surprised then if you, as you unmock and mock things up in your preclear, or if you look on the assessment, you will find that there’s a big charge on treachery, trickery – being stabbed in the back, and so forth. This table is treachery, trickery and being stabbed in the back in some… in some category. And is desire in another category. And it’s all at once, desire, trickery, treachery. Because there’s nothing there to be desired. But he wants something there so that he can desire it. And it’s trickery and treachery. And boy, has he got an educated perception level! And you start to break through that educated perception level and he just does wonderful things.

Well, there’s a case of not wanting in courage, but just being bored. I was frankly bored with the case. At two thirty in the morning, I had better things to do. And she didn’t look in bad shape. I hadn’t assigned any goals for this case beyond ‘Well, let’s snap her out of it so she doesn’t have to go to the hospital.’ She didn’t have to go to the hospital – .she went into apathy.

Then you’ll run… run this for a little while and you’ll start getting charges on the E-Meter on ‘It wasn’t there’. He’ll start going down… don’t worry about this, just keep up the process. He’s walked downstairs and he started to walk out through the front door. And got his hand through the door… before he remembered he’d better take the doorknob. That’s upsetting! That’s upsetting, for instance, to come over here and pick up this coke bottle, and really have to make a little postulate about it. „Well, it’s going to be solid and I can pick it up.“ Otherwise your fingers close on each other. Fascinating.

You can do the same thing any time for any reason for any cause that you suddenly back up from a ‘can’t’, evidently. You start them into a ‘can’t’ and then you back up.

Well, don’t let your preclear get into that state. ‘Cause we want this universe in good shape, because you’re going to run slam-bang into these manifestations.

All right, when they start running mock-ups, they’re running mock-ups of a certain kind, and the next darn thing you know, why, they… they’re telling you, „My God! Under no circumstances could I possibly mock up this or that or something or other.“ And you started in on a gradient scale.

Now what’s… what’s wrong with your preclear is as a little kid he tried to convince people of this and that. In school everybody tried to convince him of this and that. And he’s been trying to convince other people of this, and they’ve been trying to convince him of this. If you were just to run ‘conviction’ and just tear it off…

Well, after they’ve mocked it up for a short time, they start to get sick or… or they feel electronic thunder bursts going on around their heads and something…

Now if you start running around trying to convince people Scientology works, you’re walking into the biggest trap of all. Of course, Scientology works. It doesn’t have to convince them. The… the reason it works…

What fixed them up? More of it. And if you’re running out of ideas, just grab SELF ANALYSIS and feed ‘em those mock-ups, give them that mock-up and then place it in the various vicinities and handle it and turn it upside down and turn it in colors around the body. That’ll do it too – that also will work.

Oh, by the way. I didn’t make a gag very clear last night. I said I’d pop anybody if he kept talking about my ideas on this subject. Because what we’re talking about is the anatomy of the physical universe. And I’m damned if this physical universe was my idea.

Now what is the missing ingredient here? It isn’t lack of courage in all cases. It’s just not going through to the effect which you desire to produce, that’s all. You just fell short and decided there was something else that you ought to go off on.

So if you were a little bit shocked or missed the point on that, I hope I made that very clear. What you’re doing is accusing me, you see, of being the author of all this universe, and that’s no good.

Did you ever hear of a rabbit dog, did you ever hear of a bird dog that couldn’t be broken of chasing rabbits? Well, there are such things. And eventually in dispair, they really fix ‘em up, Guy’s got a quail… this dog he’s been trained to hunt quail and they’ve got out there and that dog’s going out and hunting quail and he’s chasing quail and flushing quail. And all of a sudden he finds a rabbit went across that road and he takes around, right after that rabbit, just zingedy-boom! To hell with the quail. And you don’t happen to want quail. You don’t want anything to do with quail, but uh… the dog – oh, pardon me. He doesn’t want anything to do with quail all of a sudden and you want the quail. You don’t want anything to do with rabbits.

Now… you can do a better job any day in the week. I mean this… this… this… look at that reverse flow as a trap, „I agree, therefore I’ve got to have. But if I agree – I mean – If I agree to have, then I run into ‘can’t have’.“ „That on which I work hardest, I will have.“ Energy devoted to, becomes havingness.

Well, you cure that dog by suddenly taking the rabbit, or a rabbit, and tying it around his neck and letting him walk for days and days and days with this decaying rabbit around his neck. And he’ll finally get so apathetic about rabbits, that after that he will hunt only quail.

So Lord help somebody who insists on working only on the insane. Obviously he’d go nuts! It’s inevitable. What he devotes energy to, he will have. That’s one of the most fundamental rules there is. In order to have, you have to devote energy to something too. This universe has got that all nailed down.

Now that is the best method of breaking them which I know.

That, by the way, doesn’t happen to be entirely true. You can just upset the agreement level and do that.

Now. I am sure that none of you want a screaming preclear tied around your neck because you… But the truth of the matter is some auditors just get obsessed on going some other direction, diving off the track and going in some other way. They start a process and then they never finish it. They start it and they never finish it and they start it and they never finish it.

Now to tell you the truth, before I did very much about this convincing and conviction and all that sort of thing, I was very careful about it. I was, I was quite careful about it, because I… actually you start working with this and you just feel these walls kind of go ‘creak’. You say, „Now, wait a minute.“ And it wasn’t until very recently that I was thoroughly enough convinced that it would take more than two or three people working hard in this direction to cave it all in suddenly.

See, it’s easy to start things in this universe and it’s damn tough to conclude them. And a guy gets into a habit of never finishing anything. Don’t let that one show up in your processing of preclears.

But the whole thing of the process of Spacation – good old spacation – done: You put out anchor points, see? Now let’s put out anchor points while you’re lying on the couch and let’s unmock the couch. In other words, put out anchor points and put something of your own creation below the couch – but inside your own space. Put out anchor points out here – you’re lying on the couch and put a… a mock-up of your own down there. And then unmock everything else but the beingness of you, the anchor points and that mock-up.

If you are alert to the fact that you’re doing this, well, for heaven’s sakes! Under no circumstances should you set, then, big pieces of havingness in terms of an effect. In other words, don’t get yourself great, big goals. Get little tiny ones. Put yourself on a gradient scale with the preclear. „Now I’m going to finish this. Now I’m going to finish that. Now I’m going to finish something or other.“ Get yourself accustomed to finishing something.

In other words, unmock the real universe.

And when your preclear starts sparking and sparkling and the… the… the uh… stuff starts to scream along with the E-Meter diving in all directions because shocks are passing through it and you’re all upset and going around in circles, just give them more of what you’re doing to them – because it’ll work – in mock-ups.

What’s the… what’s the cure if your preclear suddenly… all of a sudden decides his head is going to be blown off, or… This is liable to happen if you do that, you see.

And that is about the… You see, the process is easy. The process won’t fail you, but you possibly could back up in view of the fact that you hate to hurt preclears. You say, „Well, we’re hurting him so much, we’d better stop.“ Nahh! Butcher them.

Oh, you just unmock some more things. Just unmock some more.

By the way, if you go in with sort of the motto, „Well, let’s… let’s give him creative processing and then ruin him,“ you never will. Reverse vectors of the MEST universe.

You see, the essence of unmocking is that if he’s really practiced at unmocking things, even if he’s still in his head, one day he unmocks his body. And for him… you see, his unmocking is done carefully within his own frame of reference. He doesn’t unmock for other people. He’s kind of careful about that at first, and then he gets a little less careful. And uh… so, of course, unmocking leads to a fellow just sitting there and no body. He doesn’t feel any body. Naturally then he can move around, and he actually will move around on that unmocking. He’s quite unwilling to do this.

If you say, „All right, now let’s go in here with Creative Processing and uh… make him feel light and cheerful and airy,“ you’ll probably butcher him – reverse vectors, you see. What’s your intention?

But what’s he run into? He runs into having to be convinced there is a body there. And he thinks of all the hard times that he’s had trying to convince himself of the existence of something or other. He’s been up to – woof! – way back some time… havingness. He’s tried to convince himself something doesn’t exist, and something does exist. And he’s tried to convince himself and get himself SOLD on the idea that there IS a universe there. And he thinks of the times when his WANT has been stirred up, his INTEREST has been commanded to this degree that he wants the object which has been described. And then he sits there and his desire makes him want the solidity and he gets space to come in together and he thinks of all the trouble he’s been through to go to all this sort of thing and to convince himself. And the thankfulness he felt when somebody walked up to him and handed him a real object. Handed him a piece of the MEST universe. He didn’t know the rules by which you made something, but yet this other was real because he could be convinced by it. And how could he be convinced? Because it could hurt him. And because it could give him interest and pleasure and because it had color in it and all that sort of thing.

Well, the better intention is d… just „Well, let’s see if we can kill him.“ That’s right. Or, „Let’s see if we can make him utterly decay before our very eyes,“ and he’ll fool you. The process itself carries right on through.

So as your preclear starts on this track, he’s liable to put on the brakes. But that is very aberrated, because, you see, at any moment you can re-mock up it.

Well, you set up what you’re trying to do and you set it up on a good assessment and you carry it through with enough persistence to get you through to the end and you never blink. The guy says… let’s… starts letting out piercing screams that you’re sure can be heard blocks away – they probably can be. Probably the police will be there at your door in a very short space of time. And you’ll do well if you just tell them – don’t tell them you’re a Scientologist; tell them Dianetics. They’re used to complaints about that.

The essence of mock-ups is the essence of perceiving illusions. And when he perceives mock-ups better, he perceives this universe better. So all that becomes very simple.

And uh… give them your attention to carrying forward the process which made them that way – because you’ll be doing Creative Processing or Postulate Processing, one or the other. And he’ll just get that way and that’s the way they are. And then they get right on through it.

So there… there is a level of abstraction which is at the upper spectrum of all abstractions. You… when the mathematician says, „A equals alpha“ or something, he does it with a conviction. He has decided that there is a convincing actuality in that relationship. And the reason he can say that is preceded by, not mathematics, but a conviction or a convincing of the existence of a beingness.

It’s fantastic to see somebody coming in and he’s – you don’t know what’s wrong with him. You put him on an E-Meter and you can’t find anything he can create and you can’t find… you can’t find a… anything he can destroy. You just… he’s just naauu – he just keeps falling off the meter and he can’t create anything and he can’t destroy anything, and he can’t be and he is not and uh… he’s a shaking wreck, he’s trembling and… and he’s got twitches and uh… y… you’ll just say, „Oh, no! Oh, what did I do to find this on my doorstep this morning?“ And so…

And before beingness there must be a convinced… convincedness about beingness. And your lowest level of abstraction, of course, is easily solved because that’s ‘forget’ and ‘remember’. Now, don’t forget those two because the preclear’s memory is as good as he can receive and retain objects; and it is as useful as and as workable as he can give away and let go of objects. And between these two things, then, you get the whole range of what is laughingly called ‘the abstract’.

How do you handle the case? You sit down and you say, „Well, let’s see. Ron didn’t tell me uh… what you did with one of these extreme cases. It’s just uh… person apparently completely out of line. I can’t understand it. Don’t know what we’ll do about this.“

Now, objects, then, positioned in space, increased, decreased, made to disappear, made to appear again and so on, are handling from a level of Q-1 the entire span of abstraction as it applies to this universe. And let no one kid you otherwise.

No, you don’t do that. What you do is find out how good he is at the creation of mock-ups and then start him at the lowest level of his abilities – I mean, his… the level that you can attain, where you’re absolutely sure that he is doing what you’re asking him to do. And then keep checking up on him, and uh… you just carry it through from there. That’s all. you could do about it. And you will come out all right in the end.

Mathematics are symbolical manifestations of number, quantity and quality, and… applied to this universe.

You see, my mistake was not in, really, on this girl, uh… omitting the assessment. If I’d had unlimited time, I would have plowed right straight on through that. But here was a great big bug sitting there on the track, ready to bite. And I didn’t have time, I thought, to carry through with it. So I lost the next 24 hours. It wouldn’t have taken me another 15 minutes to have her in the condition where she was chewing Mama’s head off, really.

You go outside the universe and make up a mathematics ‘1 equals 8’ and then don’t ever worry about proving it. Because that’s the next thing that people ask you to knock you down scale and make you buy things, or make you give up things – you’ve got to prove it. And of course you can’t prove something that isn’t there. So a man goes into the doggonedest, most long-winded dissertations and most idiotically, logical, wholly absurd – well, just get this: Now do you see, the reason why you work is so that you can eat. Nothing more logical than that, is there? That’s real hard-rock stuff.

Now uh… another thing you can do… now that’s – of course, there’s always these two crimes in processing. You call them the ‘tion’s’: Invalida-tion and Evalua-tion and, one which I will cover a little later, Convic-tion. Those are the ‘shuns’ as an auditor. Leave them alone.

Now just a minute. If you didn’t… weren’t so convinced it was work, you would probably eat better. All right, we’ve knocked that out just a little bit. Now let’s go up the line. Whatcha eating for? Well, you’re eating for the sensation. Well, if you could mock up flavors which were better than you could buy, you certainly wouldn’t bother with what was called ‘real’ stuff, would you? So therefore you wouldn’t be eating for the sensation.

It’s all very well. Every once in a while I bust my own rules. You’ve always got the privilege to say you’re busting rules. Every once in a while I bust my own rules, and every time I do, I’m sorry. I can bust all kinds of rules in processing end never get in serious trouble. But when I start busting the ‘tion’s’ I generally get a little bit sorry, one way or the other – something will happen.

Let’s go over into some better reason for this. Now let’s see. A fellow’s in a body so he can be identified. Oh, you mean you can’t make an identification of yourself show up so that people can see this? It’s coming down to an inability of some sort, here.

All right, persistence then is of the essence, leaving reality alone is of the essence, and handling actuality only. That is, when I say ‘actuality’ I mean the preclear’s universe. And remembering that he’s only a preclear. Quite important. Don’t put an overevaluation on your preclear, because, you see, when it becomes serious and important you’ll do a kind of a MEST level job on him. It’s not serious and it’s not important. If you weren’t there, this person would do what everybody else would have done. It isn’t scheduled and there was no law passed that you had to be there and you had to help. No law’s been passed to that effect. That’s not scheduled on the MEST universe time track, you won’t find it in any annals, you won’t even find it in the predictions of Nostradamus. This thing isn’t on the list, it isn’t on the docket, what we’re doing here. There’s a lot of things that are on the docket that won’t ever happen because we’re doing this. In other words, we junked the docket. And then, therefore, whatever your fate line of Mr. Preclear is, or whatever he might have expected to have done and gone to his grave and become eaten by worms and uh… never know anything anymore – now that’s scheduled. So that you are there, is fortuitous. You’re doing him such a hell of a favor, you never have to ask for his license to survive. You never have to ask him to be permitted to survive – never.

Come on, let’s… let’s prove why you have to work. Well, I have to work, I have to – well…

If I impress anything upon you, you don’t have any duty to help him out. And if you do a good job, the only one that’s going to pat you on the back is you. Not your preclear, not his family, not me – that’s wrong! I will. I always feel just as pleased as the dickens.

And that is the way with any proof there is for anything – proof or ‘pruff’ – in this universe. It just goes around in a squirrel cage. It’s just… it’s just nonsense.

Every once in a while some auditor will call me up, two, three, four o’clock in the morning, saying, „You know! I just finished this session and this guy walked in and he had a club leg or a… a cauliflower ear or… or his brain had been reversed in his head and was now in his left foot“ or something of the sort, „and uh… I just got through working him him for 12 hours solid. And you know, you couldn’t tell the difference. And he went home, and he just called me back, and his wife didn’t recognize him when he walked in!“

That’s true of space, energy and time, you see? I mean, they had space, energy and time – each one evaluated in the terms of the other two, and nobody outside this rat race. So if we could never get outside of this rat race, we could never find anything that would solve time. We move over here to Be, Do and Have and we move back there to look at… „Well,“ we say, „to heck with that. We’re out of that rat race.“ Well, we’ve just consistently moved up the line and moved the product of Be, Have and Do is space, energy and time. All right, Be, Have and Do are conditions which can be set up by postulates which then, if everyone is convinced thoroughly enough, exist as space, energy and time. And you work from this upper abstraction of Be, Do and Have, and you get space, energy and time.

Good! I just get cheerful as hell about it! It’s wonderful.

But you get something else, too. You don’t just get space, energy and time. You find out that postulates can be made about almost anything.

But as far as appreciation of your good works is concerned, the main reason you got into… first time you really ever got into trouble was when you thought that you appreciating you was bad. That’s typical of this universe. You’re not supposed to like you, you see. And you go around and you say, „Excuse me for being me.“ The use of the first person is very much frowned upon, although you find in the very vital societies of the past, the very strong ones, the ones which nothing was ever able to run down – the guys used to walk out customarily and say, „Well, I’ll give you my opinion and it’s the opinion of the wisest and best and smartest man anywhere in this tribe.“

Now the first time these postulates begin to get very set and matter begins to be unmovable and people become to be very unhappy and the game stops being a game and becomes very, very hard work, is when everybody has to prove it all the time. They’re proving something that isn’t true, no matter what they’re trying to prove.

Ohh! How would that sound? How would that sound in England or America today. No, no! And yet – the Germanic tribes were still going forward, by the way, had just made another push. And the Roman legions that had them buttoned up have all been dead, lo! these many centuries.

Now we’ve taken apart an anatomy here, an anatomy of many levels of conviction which have resulted in many levels of desires and enforcements and inhibitions, resulted in many levels of conviction, many levels then of affinity and agreement and communications. And what we’ve done is, in the – language of this, backtracked right on up the line until we had reconstructed this. And we followed the track back and all of a sudden we test it and now go up track or down that track again or get off that track and go over on some other track and do something about that.

The Teutonic knight method of conversation was the subject of great ridicule to the Romans who were trying to conquer him, because the knight would ride forth to the banks of a stream which was being held by legionnaires and he would tell them that he was the best doggoned knight that ever existed. And he could lick them all single-handed and uh… that was his opinion. And in view of the fact that it was his opinion, then it must be true.

And uh… it’s up to you to establish a reality along this level. It is awfully tight as a level of application. I mean, you’re not very far off any grooves. You… you’ve got postulates… you’ve got Q-1 and then you’ve got postulates. And then you’ve got Be, Do and Have and that gives you Start, Change and Stop, Space, Energy, Time. Therefore it can give you any kind of an abstraction, so-called. It can give any kind of an object or any kind of a condition.

And boy, the Roman legions have been in there and out of there and chewed them up and thrown them over the side. And they still have that kind of a streak running through them.

And you’ve just got all of that, just nearly fitted together in sort of a little telescope. And you can pull it out and look at it lengthily and drag it out endlessly or simply snap it together real close and start asking about the highest level of abstractions you can. You do an assessment on this E-Meter here and look that over and you find out what he can’t do. Well, the essential things that he can’t do is can’t unconvince himself once he’s convinced. And you might say that would be one of the rougher aberrations. He can’t convince himself that he can be unconvinced, because he thinks he has to convince himself to be unconvinced. And, of course, every time he convinces himself that he has to be unconvinced, he becomes more convinced and lower on the scale, because of your reverse vectors and other things.

When I say ‘vitality’ I mean force, strength and so forth.

So I want to see… I want to see assessments done, but certainly not… not with… You know that before you start work on the preclear, fill up, oh, maybe ten notebooks, exhausting all this out carefully.

Now, they shouldn’t be held up as any kind of a model, but do you remember a time when your self-confidence was very high, when you had a great deal of confidence in yourself. You… you knew what you could do. You had good self-confidence. You remember such a time, or is it too long ago?

Now if you continue to run a preclear on the machine while you do this, you will see whenever he’s run up against one of these blocked convictions, he’s uh… hit a point where he feels he has to be convinced. And you run up against one of those, and it’ll give you quite a shock on the preclear. That is to say, he’s… he’s run up against where… a point where he feels – oh boy! You just run dials down on that – where if he gives this one up, the whole universe will go ‘poom!’ and he’ll get quite upset about it.

Well, if you can spot such a time in your life, just try and answer this next question. This next question is simply this: How many times since have you told people you didn’t have any self-confidence? And how many times have you been very careful not to have any? How many times have you falsely and needlessly sought for somebody’s opinion on something? You go around – you know that you don’t want their opinion but you go around and say, „I would like to have your opinion of this“ – you want their approval of this or, „We’re looking for this“ or „We’re looking for that with regard to this.“ Ha-ha! Phooey!

But uh… I’ll read you a couple of little laws about conviction, by the way. „Trying to convince is the same as trying to move people around – people or objects around; that they are solid or not solid; that they have space; that they don’t have space; that they act; that they don’t act; that they are perceived; that they are not perceived; that they can perceive; that they can’t perceive.“

Yeah, you can’t be a homo sapiens and be right. And one of the best reasons there is in all that line is, is you can’t have any self-confidence and still be polite. MEST universe. Don’t think it has anything to do with politeness. It’s a big control operation.

That’s all. Total level of line-ups. And one of the rougher things is that empty space is solid. Try… try to convince somebody that empty space is solid. You get the big relief of somebody… let’s say you’re dropping somebody out of a sixteen story window or something like that. Think of the big relief he would feel if he had a solid thing put immediately under him – I mean, right under him so that he would just drop a couple of feet and touch this solid thing. Boy, he’d feel so relieved. Well, that’s… that’s pay for being convinced that a solid thing can keep you from falling. It doesn’t happen to mean that a solid object can keep you from falling or it doesn’t happen to mean that gravity can necessarily act on you.

Do you know what would happen if you would customarily say to your preclear, „You know I am probably… probably uh… the most skilled practitioner in the field of any of the arts of healing, anywhere, on the East coast.“

This gets very, very interesting after a while. Uh… you could throw, quote ‘solid objects’ around at quite a… quite a rate if you wanted to. It’s up to you to recover that. It’s not up to you to be shown. And also when you’ve recovered it, it isn’t up to you to show anybody that. It isn’t, it isn’t up to anybody to… you don’t have to demonstrate anything to anybody. As a matter of fact, I make a very set rule against it. To hell with it.

You think… you… you’re immediate reaction is, they would go away and they would say, „That conceited jackass!“ That’s what you’d think they’d say. But that isn’t what they say when you say that to them. They say, „Well, he’s pretty cocky – well, he probably is. Of course, he’s no… I mean, he’s hell to talk to,“ or something like that. But uh… he probably is.

Somebody comes up to me and says, „Can you prove that so-and-so and so-and-so?“ It’s just… that’s been going on in this track for 74 trillion years: „Would you please prove to me that so-and-so and so-and-so? Would you prove it to me? Well, I can’t see the reason in it.“ Both of those things are just as haywire as hell. There is no reason in it. And as far as proving it is concerned, they want to be convinced and the fastest way to convince anybody would be to shoot them or something. And that’s real conviction.

You know, you should track some of these reactions, because there’s the reactions which people would like you to think happened, and that ‘everybody knows’ happened, and the reactions which occur.

Yeah. What’s also amusing is trying to convince people that particles have various qualities and that they are visible or invisible. It becomes very fascinating, trying to demonstrate to somebody, really prove it to him, that a particle exists.

I know… I know a girl who was just homely as hell. She used to tell everybody with great confidence how beautiful she really was. And it would startle them to such an extent they would think their powers of perception were bad. She had more boyfriends than you could count. She used to spend all her time telling them how lucky they were, too. Fascinating, isn’t it! What everybody knows is true, generally isn’t.

You can imagine yourself early on the track, going into heated discussions about this thing, until the guy finally would groggily say, „Okay, that’s a particle. I’m convinced.“

All right, then when we get down to Standard Operating Procedure, Issue Three, we find out that there is a variable in the procedure. There is a variable in it.

After a while we’d get all these particles together and we’d say,

Not very much of a variable, fortunately. If an auditor – because it doesn’t depend on his good sense. If an auditor will simply apply it as IT, the variable is not large.

„You see that table? That’s something solid. Now look, I’m going to prove to you that that table’s solid. Now take your fist…“

But this variable will to a large extent establish the amount of time required to apply it.

He says, „I haven’t got a fist.“

And that’s the auditor. The variable isn’t in whether or not I gave you the answers, now, because you’ve got the answers. I have talked to you here now for many, many hours about theory, theory. And as I outline these operations and outline these techniques even further, you will see this theory is not just theory, that it’s very easily applied.

„You haven’t got a fist?! Well, now look. Let’s take a particle there – now hold on to the particle. You’ve got the particle? Now hit it against this table, see?“

Actually, I’m pulling a little bit of an operation on you. This thing has gotten so simple now that I have to make it… dress it up – I have to dress it up and give it more width and scope than it has, because it actually is just Standard Operating Procedure, Creation of your own universe, how do you do it? Spacation, Creative Processing and Changing Postulates.

And the guy goes… „Yeah! There’s something there – not… not really too solid yet though.“

And we have various kinds of cases; and they fall in seven categories. And uh… you find out what category they’re in this way, and you use an E-Meter so-and-so and you find out what they can create and destroy – and you mock this up and you find out they’re all right. That… that’s really about all there is to it.

And you say, „Well, just a minute, just a minute. Whap! Bam! It’s solid. Okay, now you hit it with that.“

But you, of course, in the end – result is not in question. None of these results are in questions. Even this variable on the part of the auditor isn’t very badly in question.

„Yeah-yeah. Nice and solid now.“

But you actually could be so hungry to trap thetans that you’ll do anything but use Standard Operating Procedure.

I mean, it’s just as idiotic as that. The guy isn’t convinced so you convince him. He’s already been convinced there’s such a thing as energy so he can be bapped, zapped. He’s convinced of that and uh… now that he’s convinced that there can be energy you can convince – there’s such a thing as a particle, and the energy’s got to have space to be in, isn’t there? Of course, energy’s got to have space to be in – naturally. How could there be any energy if there wasn’t any space for it to be in? So that’s space, isn’t it? Okay. Guess that’s proved.

There’s an incident known as Fac One. Fac One uses sound – great big machine with a big hand crank on it and it’s grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. It poured sound and waves and push-pull and that sort of thing at a body, and it trapped the thetan pretty badly in the body.

All right. Now, if there’s space and there’s energy in it, you don’t want that space and that energy in motion all the time. That’s silly to postulate that it keeps changing position in space. You haven’t proved to him yet that it is changing position in space, see?

And that incident has practically been done to anybody there is around here. It’s a fascinating incident and it some… happened anywheres from a million years ago to eight hundred thousand years ago. Pardon me, eight thousand years ago. I found one three thousand years ago here on Earth. But uh… the people who did that incident were doing something that many people did all the way down the track. They’re trying to trap thetans and make them work.

„Now you just move it over there in the corner. Now, when it gets over there in the corner it gets solid, doesn’t it? It’s not moving.“

Now you’ll every once in a while find one of these people – flagrant example of this – and they are actually in the Operator’s valence of Fac One. It stands out like a search light. They’re in the Operator’s valence of Fac One. They will do and say and behave like the Operator in Fac One. They are just carrying forward on engrams. They are not sent here on any kind of a mission. We call these people ‘monitors’. And they very often will walk up to you and want to prove it all, and they stick their face in your face and… and they… they just try to pin you down.

The fellow says, „What do you know! It’s not moving.“

There’s… you’ve known quite a few of them around these operations. They’ll blow up in the operation after a while – they go nuts. Because they find out the operation is just too strong in terms of knowledge to do anything. They’re just dramatizing. They don’t know why they’re doing it. If they realized why they were doing it they’d practically blow their brains out.

„Well, when it’s not moving, it gets solid. There it is: Solid – solid object. That will be a dollar.“

They require a very cagey auditor in order to process them – very fast, cagey auditor to catch them and nail them down but mock-up processing will fix them up.

Somebody’s already worked the magic on you that a dollar or a pound – are worth having, that you can buy things with it that you can’t manufacture.

The monitor, Fac One. You’ve got to prove it, he’ll hold you down, he wants to know this and that. And boy, when he starts operating on a preclear, God help the preclear. Boy! He’ll do anything he can do to invalidate the preclear, at the same time very smoothly pretending to do a good job of processing – very smoothly pretending to. He’s usually a Five – Step Five – and he just will take Standard Operating Procedure, Issue Three, and it just won’t work in his hands, that’s all.

The only thing valuable about the whole thing was a piece of knowledge. If you know a modus operandi and can put it into effect without excessive labor or cost, you sure don’t need the object from somebody else, do you?

And the reason it won’t work in his hands is because he doesn’t do it. There’s nothing esoteric about it, he says, „Step two feet back of your head. Oh, you’re there? Well, ahh-um-hummm. You’re there, eh? You can’t see the back of your head… Oh, you can? You mean you’re detached from your body?“

So it was knowledge, actually, in essence, that was above all the levels.

And the guys says „Oh, look, I am?“ – smash! Back in he comes.

Now you will find that knowledge is something that most of your preclears will just shudder about destroying. They don’t want to, unless it’s knowledge about themselves. So, you give them… have them mock up police dossiers that tell about all their affairs and everything else, and you get that blown up and so on. Because they’ve got to take the terrible value level that they have off knowledge. Because if they had translated the word ‘knowledge’ as meaning ‘a fact’, then they have to hold on to their facsimiles. So they feel they can’t destroy their facsimiles because their facsimiles are knowledge and this is not true. Their facsimiles as records are of no great value. Present time action is of greater value.

If one of these monitors operates on him enough it’ll take another auditor two or three hours to straighten out this preclear. That’s dramatizing the Monitor of Fac One.

The knowledge of how to get it accomplished or how to accomplish present time action is valuable, not the file in which the knowledge is contained. The invaluableness of a file does not consist of the quality of its file cards. And if the file could exist without file cards, throw it away. Keep the knowledge, get rid of the file cards.

A lot of Fives kind of have a instinctive idea that thetans are something you should be afraid of. They have enough overt acts against thetans, so if they freed the thetan, oh boy! That thetan would chew them up. „Maybe this is the guy I put in the can eight billion years ago.“ And they get a – they… they feel if they free them, they’ll be ruined.

Knowledge can exist if we have a very easy, good method of reworking it at any time. You don’t need it. And you’ll see that happening the moment that you suddenly realize that you are sitting with the… a formula which produces knowledge at will. And the guy will say, „Well, I know. The hell with these facsimiles.“

So, the Operator in Fac One in such people do make variability – not in the technique, but there’s a variability in the auditor. But you as another auditor can overcome it with great ease. Let’s take a break.

He’s convinced, too, that facsimiles are used in lieu of force. This is a horrible trap. He thinks that knowledge will always serve in lieu of force. Well, it will if you can get there with enough of it quick enough. But don’t try levels of esoteric communication when there’s a soldier on the battle field and he’s got the rifle trained square on you and the finger is closing on the trigger. That is exactly the wrong moment to try to inform him that you know more about rifles than he does, so therefore you should be able to… Oh, no. No. You’re going to lose your havingness right there.

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Another thing is… is overevaluation of havingness. A person who overevaluates havingness consistently and continually, then he will begin to protect things that .he’s better off without. He will have things he doesn’t need because he feels he can’t ever replace them. And you get your ‘packrat’ nature of Man.

And he goes below that level, he feels that other people want to damage him solely because he has things; therefore he’ll start to abandon, abandon, abandon, abandon. He has no proper evaluation of the importance of havingness.

Which means automatically then he’d have no proper evaluation of time. And so he doesn’t have.

But it all starts out with a desire and a conviction and goes on down the line. And after a person’s been convicted and sentenced to 74 years… 74 trillion years in the MEST universe, that much havingness of the MEST universe, it’s time some of you bail him out. I’ll talk to you later this evening.

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