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1953 ФАКТОРЫ - ВОСХИЩЕНИЕ И ВОЗРОЖДЕНИЕ БЫТИЙНОСТИ

DATA ON CASE LEVEL V (CONT.)

ДЕМОНСТРАЦИЯ

A lecture give on 7 April 1953
Демонстрация, проведенная 7 апреля 1953 года*Примечание: эта демонстрация была записана не с самого начала и обрывается на этом месте.

Continuing this dissertation on the V and how to audit him.

I have given you this data about gravity and its interaction, not because we are politely interested in the effects of planets — although it's rather obvious that Venus and Jupiter and so forth might have some effect upon an individual, therefore, if the sun and the moon and Earth are so — affect him so profoundly.

LRH: Now, do you remember a time when you were really in communication with somebody?

Now, the effect of this is often to pull his body out of shape. Now, preclears would like to have their bodies altered. They seem to favor a body for some reason or other. And a fellow develops a misshapen body, if you want to call it that, quite often, and his face shape goes out of shape, and the length of his nose goes out of shape on this pull. And if you audit him for a while using a double terminal, you will find out that the forces involved here are not inconsiderable.

ЛРХ: Так вот, вы помните момент, когда вы действительно общались с кем-то?

Now, how many ways are there to alter this and to use it? Well, there's any number of ways — any number of ways you can do this, but remember, double-terminal it; that is to say, any way you want to.

Now, you can, for instance, get Earth and Earth being happy. And the sun and the sun being happy. "Now, put those up there and get them all being happy." Or "Put up four moons and get them happy." Or "Put up four suns and get them happy; have them be cheerful," and so on.

And the next thing you know, the lines will start appearing. If they don't start appearing on this fellow after a while, tell him to start shoving them in and speed it up just a little bit, because it means he's so light-starved that he can't — they won't start automatically; they're just stopped.

PС: Really in communication ? Oh yes, numerous times.

Now, how a man is going to get sonic and visio and see light and favor light and everything else if his whole impulse is stopping light, is a question which somebody else will have to solve. You can't, in other words, turn on sonic if his impulse is to stop the motion of particles. If he doesn't know the particles are there, how does he know he's stopping them? Interesting problem, isn't it?

ПК: Действительно общался? О да, множество раз.

Now, there were ways of solving this and that is by building up his force — building up his force. It has been said around in the sticks that we favor rebuilding — or Nietzsche, in other words — we're afraid we're favoring strong men now and therefore, Scientology is fascistic and so forth because we say that a man has to be rehabilitated in the field of force before his perceptics turn on. Well, that doesn't happen to be policy, that just happens to be fact.

And you'll find out that the only man you should really fear a little bit is a weak man. Don't ever fear a strong one. The — it's only weak men who become dictators. All right. By the way, poor old Nietzsche was a weakling, with his great parade of force.

We're not talking, then, about force as conduct. We are just talking about force as a man in physics would talk about force. We're just talking about flows of particles. You've got to rehabilitate his ability to get — let particles flow before you get much in the way of perception.

LRH: One.

There are many ways of doing it; we had lots of ways of doing it in the past. I'm demonstrating here a primary source of particle flow shut-off. Because what happens in this setup?

ЛРХ: Какой-нибудь один.

When that sun is pulling on him with gravity, it is pushing at him and he gets the idea after a while that he'd better hold on to the sun, so he does. And he starts holding on to the sun but he can never hold on to the sun and he always loses. So he loses, so he says, "I've failed, therefore I cannot control time." And what's our primary aberration? Time. "I cannot alter or control time."

Something else happens. This universe runs backwards compared to what a thetan runs. Why? I'll go into that in just a moment, but what hap-pens is that when he pulls on the sun, he pulls more photons in on him than he can get energy up. It would be like grabbing ahold of a treadmill, and you'll very often find a V on the complete belief that he has to do with tread-mills. People try to walk away from him in mock-ups — what little mock-up he gets — and they're walking on a treadmill.

Well, don't look for people to resolve this, because they don't resolve it rapidly at that level of case. Look at this. Every time he pulls on the sun, he gets a flood of particles down on his head. So what's that mean? Every time he tries to push against the sun he gets a flock of particles down on his head. Every time he tries to do anything about the sun he gets a flock of particles down on his head, so therefore he says, "In the face of the great god Ra, I am unable to control my anchor points, therefore, I can't control my anchor points. Furthermore, on certain dark nights, I can't control my anchor points. Although I would like to illuminate all the heavens, when I tried to put out my anchor points on certain dark nights, for some reason or other my anchor points fly back in my face."

PC: Well, at lunch time.

That's very early, and it is actually mechanical behavior which hasnever been analyzed by him. He doesn't know this has taken place or whyhe's failed or why he's abandoned it. What's happened is in the dark of themoon, the moon goes overhead and underfoot anyway, and still exerts graviticinfluence. And here you have no admiration from the moon, and so this particle,force, of course, is not run out — if effort, in other words, doesn't run out in theabsence of admiration. People think of the moon as admiring them. All right.Now, when the moon goes over in the dark of the moon, you have a perfectly dark sky, and the sky is so black and so dark that it obviously has noinfluence whatsoever. But what do you know, there's an awful lot of moon upthere, and it's the same moon although it isn't pouring in on him. In otherwords, the moon's behavior, then, is quite different and you have man supposing it to be quite erratic. Civilized man has so long been living in houses andaway from the sight of all this and buried down in this that he's still influenced by it, but it has shifted cycle here and there. But we find the moon stillcontrolling a great deal of his activities, particularly on the second dynamic.You'll find it controlling with absurd accuracy the second dynamic ofanimals who are customarily capable of being outside in the moon. You know, I mean, like rabbits on the plains. There is no shelter; they're just on the plains and they're always in sight of the moon. All right, they're influenced by it very markedly, particularly on the second dynamic. All right.

ПК: Ну, за обедом.

Now, we take the action here, then, of the sun, the moon and the Earth and we are dealing with tremendous forces and we're dealing with MEST. If you ask a preclear to mock up a room on top of a room, he will get a flow. He'll get more of a flow and more of a reaction — more of a physical reaction — anytime than he'll get off running people — anytime. So here we have MEST. Here we have lots of MEST.

We have this great big mass of Earth, we have that big mass of a sun, we have the moon — all of them right close by. And we get these interactive forces and they are very difficult to run out and they are very, very hard — not difficult to run out on this principle — but they're very hard for anybody to combat; they're too, too much there.

And what do you know, evidently — evidently there's more to know about this, but evidently it's this combination that gives one his sense of time. And all through this universe one gets his sense of time off the interaction of heavenly bodies. And the body itself is timed, the breathing is timed, the heartbeat is timed by what? Gravitic influence. It's like one huge chronometer set up there. And all these bodies act the same toward it. Now, this gives us an answer — irrespective of somebody suddenly stepping up and molding each body to size and shape; it gives you an answer of why a type of body will develop and be a type of body. Why does man have, for instance, a prefrontal lobe? You will find that out when you double-terminal the sun, the Earth. You'll find out that the heavenly body cuts him, and the force of it cuts him right across where the membrane is, where the prefrontal lobe comes in. Why do people have double chins? The chin never gets admired by sunlight or moonlight. Hidden down here. It's fascinating. A lot of odd and absurd data connected with this.

LRH: At lunch time?

But remember it if you want to alter the physical body of a V or a IV or a III for that matter, if it's too far out of line. Remember that data.

ЛРХ: За обедом?

It's a very simple technique. You simply tell him to double-terminal the sun and the Earth and the moon. "Two suns, now put in two Earths." Now, he has an awful time getting two suns, you finally get him to a point where he gets two suns. Now you get him to get two suns and two Earths, and now you get him to get two suns, two Earths and two moons. And then you get him in there. It's very peculiar; it may be the first time you'll ever get three-dimensional visio. His visio up to that moment might have been completely flat.

Now, what do you do about the darkness? What about the darkness? Yes sir, you have to double-terminal darkness. Don't get one sheet of darkness, one sheet of darkness and say — with two planets on it — and say that's double-terminaled. Get a piece of darkness and a piece of darkness, and a planet and a planet. Double-terminal the darkness too.

Now, what are you interested in by doing all this? You're going to get somatics just by putting two suns up there. Yes sir, you're going to get somatics by putting up two Earths. But you're interested in the lines because they're there. It's the hidden influence of this universe: the line, the missing line. Those lines are there, they show up and they have mass. And it's lines.

PC: Mm-hm.

You ask somebody to get the concept "Isn't it too bad how the people — how human beings don't have lines amongst them?" Just get them to get that concept, by the way, and they're liable to get the darnedest set of somatics; they're liable to see lines springing up amongst people. The lines are there! That's all; they're just hidden.

ПК: Угу.

Now, let's go into it a little bit further. What is the primary control operation of the MEST universe? The primary control operation of the MEST universe could be said to be this: distracting attention to nothing. If you can get somebody to distract his attention to nothing, you've gotten him into a position where he won't have a second terminal and therefore no energy line and so he will decay and fade away.

Now, how do parents do this? They say, "Johnny, look out what you're doing!" He's just sitting in his wagon minding his own business. "Look out what you're doing, Johnny!"

How does that distract his attention? Well, he's got his attention on some MEST and pulls it off the MEST to a person. Because the person is capable of reason and the MEST is not capable of reason, his attention is pulled from MEST to people.

LRH: Good, good. Now, you remember a time when you really knew somebody felt some affinity for you.

If you want to make any workman real nervous, if this man customarily works with high speed and dangerous machinery, you just make him — want to make him good and nervous and so forth — you get him walking away from his machinery or any place away from his machinery, you'll make him nervous enough. But get him when he's right there at the machine, walk up to his shoulder, and say to him suddenly, "Say, Joe!" Hm-mm. Blrrrrrr! Because you've made him unfix his attention from something he knows he must not unfix his attention from. And if you do this to him very often, he is going to be in horrible condition. What is nervousness? Nervousness is distracted attention. People say, "I am distracted." Why are they distracted? Distracted attention.

ЛРХ: Хорошо, хорошо. Далее, вы помните момент, когда вы действительно знали о том, что кто-то чувствует аффинити к вам.

Now, the important thing, as far as aberration is concerned, is the sixth dynamic, but the most important thing of that is the solid object as far as the actual somatic is concerned. The missing thing is the line, the hidden flows of particles.

So how would you, how would you go about this? You would pull his attention off the solid object to a person and then you would correct him about what he had just said which puts his attention on the intervening space between the two people where there is no line. You've got him. You've put his attention on, as far as he's concerned, nothing. And you've also put his attention onto another nothing which is the past. And you see how that operation's done?

The actual aberrative factor is the unpredictability. of MEST, but people are blamed for this, because people go around distracting people's attention from MEST. You know, they argue about MEST, they worry about MEST and they — but — and so on. But they argue with other people about MEST and they keep winding everybody up on big flows of maybes.

PC: Uh... yes, as I was leaving Auckland...

All right then, what's this all about then? Then we get people as the apparent thing, and the next thing we get is the past as being an apparent source of aberration, and it is, but that's because people are always directing one's attention to the past. How do they do that? They say, "You said and I said, but you didn't say what you're saying you said now. You said something else. And in the future, I want you to be very careful never to do that again. Now, I want you to remember this. And the reason I'm punishing you is so you remember this and in the future you will never ..."

ПК: Э... да, когда я уезжал из Окленда...

The — that's — it's being done in the present, but it's putting it right into the past, and that's adding a circuit in, you see. That's punishing somebody so that he won't do something in the future. Well, that's into the past.

Or they say, "You'll have to correct your English because you just said something or other, something or other, something or other," and so on. Therefore, instruction which is beaten into somebody actually merely removes him into the past and cancels him.

If you — you could probably beat a child hard enough and often enough to a point where he'd never be able to figure anything. He'd just be all circuits; he'd be all circuits and he couldn't be anything. Couldn't even be himself.

LRH: Mm-hm.

So the optimum method of instruction would be to have him fit the data to the material universe as he learned it. That would be the optimum method of instruction, wouldn't it? You'd have him experience the data with his own action and beingness as he learned the data. The ideal way to instruct in botany would be with flowers, with herbs and so forth, not so much from a text.

ЛРХ: Угу.

You'll find it very interesting, for instance, that if you take a student who has studied for a long, long, long, long time — run this one on him: Have him take the textbook, have him take and change the textbook into him. It's fascinating. Try it sometime. Have him take one of his textbooks and change the textbook into him. Of course, he — what he's trying to do is make the text-book the same as he is. Or just have him mock up there, with the textbook admiring him. He's admired textbooks all the time but no textbook ever admired him, so it's a one-way flow.

It's like you cure people of bad occupational disorders by having their tools admire them, or four-terminal their tools and you'll get the flows of sound and that sort of thing. That is, double-terminal their tools. All right, or change the tools into them. Have the tool there and have the person appear. All right, the — all these would be methods, you see. But it's the MEST universe.

Now, the worst thing in the world you could do to an individual would be to distract his attention to a hidden line. Why, nobody would ever be as cruel as to do this, but they say, "You know what they're saying about you behind your back?" "There's a lot of gossip, there's a lot of rumor going around at this time that . . ." See, hidden lines, hidden lines, hidden lines, hidden lines. Let's all go crazy quick.

PC: ... and coming over here.

You can never, under God's green earth, use a hidden line for a terminal. A person actually depends for a large amount of his energy as he operates in a body on a second terminal. He must interchange with a second terminal. As he gets such an interchange with a second terminal, he figures he doesn't have energy. That's why loneliness is bad, although loneliness isn't terribly aberrative. That's merely a scarcity of people.

ПК: ...чтобы приехать сюда.

You get somebody who doesn't like people, by the way, there's such a scarcity of people, you'll have to have him throw people away before he'll accept people. There's a terrible hunger for people. Watch a little baby, he just loves people. All right.

Now, let's take a look at this, then, in terms of directing attention. We distract attention to people, then they distract attention to the past or to a hidden line. So if we're looking for aberration, we look at those hidden lines, don't we? Where are those hidden lines? And we process, process as to get hidden lines, and that's really what's wrong with a V.

Your first analysis of the V, he thinks he's defending himself from every-body, from people. He isn't defending himself from people; he's defending him-self from MEST, really. Or he says, if he's real bad off, he's defending himself from hidden communications, hidden communications, hidden communications. That's what he says he's defending himself from. He's not defending himself from hidden communications. He's defending himself from perfectly good, valid lines! And the second you start double-terminaling them you'll find out that those lines are pretty big and pretty solid and it's MEST at the base and so forth.

LRH: Mm. Now, excuse me, I'll make a comment on this.

Don't forget there are three kinds of space. One of the things that a V gets into is a vacuum. Every time you throw a mock-up out there, it disappears. You could make any V get mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, mock-ups, until all of a sudden one appears. I won't say how many thousand mock-ups he'll have to put out there to get one to appear, but it's plenty, plenty of mock-ups. Okay.

ЛРХ: Ага. Прошу прощения, я сделаю здесь один комментарий.

Now, let's go in straight from that data into how you exteriorize a V and why he doesn't exteriorize. I can tell you a lot about V's. I'll make this word of warning (I've said it before here), anytime you find your V a little bit spinny, throw him into Step VI, next-to-the-last list of Self Analysis — a bunch of mockups — and then take him back onto Step V. What's Step V as it exists now? Is it any of this stuff I've been telling you? No, you've been sitting here very patiently and you haven't heard the piece de resistance: How do you work a V?

A thetan can be what he can see. A thetan can see what he can be. A thetan doesn't have to be what he doesn't see. What a thetan doesn't see, he doesn't have to be.

Now remember, I said, "thetan." If he sees it with his eyes, that's all right. Something else saw it; he didn't. That's the way he gets around that. But if he sees it as a thetan, he'll have to be able to be it.

[to audience] Only reason I was showing you this, you’ve got a fast communication lag index here. And if he hasn’t been out of his body under older techniques, somebody ought to be shot.

A communication point is also a space point, so beingness and communication are the same thing. So therefore, perception and beingness to a thetan are identical, same thing. What he can see, he can be.

[К аудитории] Единственная причина, по которой я это вам показываю, состоит в том, что так вы быстро определяете показатель задержки общения. И если этого преклира еще не выводили из тела с помощью прежних техник, то кого-то нужно застрелить.

The definition of space is a viewpoint of dimension. Therefore, one has to have a viewpoint before he has anchor points. And that's what your V doesn't have. And that's the biggest scarcity in the world, is viewpoints. Your V doesn't have a viewpoint.

Two ways you can give him a viewpoint: one's to bring him into present time, and that's make him hold on to the corners of the room and not think, let his circuits scream, which is a Step VII. But a good technique anywhere in the bank to get somebody to present time: get him interested in those corners of the room. He'll get nervous and he'll get upset and so forth.

But by and large you have on your hands a mechanical difficulty; you have starved lines, no light or admiration in them. Don't have any light in the lines; the lines are all bunched up and you have the bank to some degree collapsed on him. It's a mechanical problem.

[to pc] Let’s grab ahold of those two corners of the room up there...

If you're going to solve this V's body, you're going to have a picnic; you're going to have a real picnic because you've got all the GE's lines collapsed and all the V's lines collapsed.

[Преклиру] Возьмитесь за те два угла комнаты...

So you want this V out of his body as soon as possible, and let's not take him out of his body Tuesday when we can do it today. Wouldn't that be wonderful if you had a technique? You'd take your most occluded case and have him out of his body, and he'd know he was out of his body five or six minutes. See, wouldn't that be wonderful? Gee, I would like to tell you here today that we have such a technique, so I will.

The missing definition in physics was space: viewpoint of dimension. The local yokels have been running around yelling about space, energy and time, and they never said what space was. What is space? Well, let's get awfully simple and we'll say it's a viewpoint of dimension. Well, what marks the dimension? That's an anchor point, and it's the distance from the point of view to the anchor point that is the space. Right?

What's wrong with a V? You'll find him all identified with everything. Well why? Why is he identified with things? Well, that's because there is too little space, see? Too little space. What's this tell you immediately? There is too little viewpoint, then. All right, if there's too little viewpoint, what's the matter with his anchor points? Well, they work in reverse; the MEST universe has gotten into him and defeated him one way or another, and his light starvation and a lot of other things. Every time he tries to put out his anchor points, they disappear. Of course they just go into this light-starvation vacuum. He's been in space; he's had all sorts of things happen to him and each one has convinced him that he can't put any anchor points.

So you don't only — you — this boy's in a bad way, see? He not only doesn't have a viewpoint as a thetan, but he doesn't have any anchor points. So where the devil's his space? Well of course it'd be lovely if you could bring this boy to present time. It'd just be wonderful if you could just bring him to present time. You're not going to get him to present time. The reason why you're not going to get him into present time is, the space is too light-starved and the lines are too tight. And if you start pouring too much admiration into those lines, those lines start opening, and the second they start opening he starts to feel like he's squirreling because he goes into one of these frenzies of pain things and he feels like he's going crazy, something. And then you have to drop into Case Level VI, then you bring him back. You could fool around with this for a long time. You don't have to. I did already. I put in a lot of hours on this, and found out it's not profitable! The case was about the same level on the Tone Scale before as after.

PC: Mm-hm.

Oh, I did all sorts of things. I got him to process Fac One cameras: one camera facing the other camera, both of them being MEST, you see, and getting four cameras, so the hidden communication line between the two cameras would show up and the sound would run out, and we got lots of lovely somatics and we did get a glandular change and all that, but nothing happened really. He wasn't out of his body.

ПК: Угу.

No viewpoint! Well, if we can't have a viewpoint, by golly, we can't have a guy exteriorized, because there would be no space for him to exteriorize into, will there? Well, if we clip out a few postulates, maybe, you'd think this would be good? No. If we work Self Analysis for a long time it will be all right? Yes, yes, that's true, that's true. You're just feeding the bank gradually and pleasantly enough and so forth over a long enough period of time, he'll eventually get out by uncollapsing lines.

Well, if there's no viewpoint, there must be some other mistake in thematter. You should be able to create a viewpoint. Some mistake. Should beable to use the room as a viewpoint. Well, he can't see! Why can't he see?Well, because he can't be. Well, if he can't be, then he can't see. Very, verytough, very tough. So must be something else; must be some other mistake.Must be something else; must be some way we could solve this thing becauseotherwise we're just going around and around in circles and have taken along time at it, and it's all very difficult. So is the V making another mistake?Brother, he sure is. This is idiotic. The first time the V notices this hewill almost shoot himself in anguish when he realizes it — one of those simpleones. The V is what's holding on — the thetan of the V is what's holding on toeverything and is everything. And he doesn't know it. He thinks it's the body.Now, let me go into that quietly and smoothly. A Step I exteriorizes apoint. Well, beware of these guys that exteriorize as a point because that'snot so. A thetan isn't a point in this particular universe. He just thinks he is.

He's got a theta body but a person can actually get out of his body and then get out of his theta body. He's got a body. He's got a body. It's a composite of all sorts of things.

LRH: ... from inside your head. Shut your eyes and grab ahold of those two corners of the room.

He's also got a personality. What personality is it? It's a pers — the same personality you're looking at, modified. It's modified how? Well, in a human body he knows he has to act more human because he's being observed. And so he just relaxes a little bit and he's much simpler and he thinks of himself as kind of cute. And he all of a sudden spots all of these boxes and so forth around that he's got these circuits in, and so forth, when he's out of his body. So he just thinks he's a little bit cuter and he feels freer and he feels a little sadder when he's outside of his body.

ЛРХ: ... изнутри своей головы. Закройте глаза и возьмитесь за те два угла комнаты.

As a V exteriorizes he's usually — gets out into a — and he gets a past death or something will fall in on him or something like that, and he'll feel kind of sad about it all. Well, he's afraid of being anything. Big trouble, besides the mechanical problem, it shows up as fear of being something. You say, "Be this and be that." Well, he can't see it so he doesn't know, and so he has to know the data to see it, and then he can't see it because he can't know the data, and all that. Big trouble here.

And this, his mistake — this is, this is one of two mistakes — the mistake is that these somatics which he has and these perceptions which he has and this sensory equipment which he has and these nerve lines which he has belong to the body and he's trying to move out without taking them with him. They're his as a thetan. He is this network of circuits. He is this network of nerves and lines. He is this thing. He is a complex mechanism if you ever . . . Why, it would a — it would take a master mechanic weeks to draw the design of what the thetan considers his head! Now, that is not the optimum state for a thetan, to be all fixed up like this, so the thetan has to be audited. But he'd better be audited away from the body to get him away from the GE's bank.

But what's this body compared to this thetan? Well, it's just a hulk. It's just like a corn husk. And when he starts to realize this, why, he'll say, "Gee, this is real silly of me." He'd say, "You know, ha! I've had this — I always had this little sinus tickle, and so forth, and I move out and I've got this sinus tickle. I move out of the body and my sinuses tickle. Well, how can my sinuses tickle if I'm out of the body?"

[to audience] This would be, by the way, just standard – you could just do this just as I’m doing it right here and you’d be safe as a bug in a rug with every case you ran.

Well, they do. And, "I always have this funny feeling in my chest, and I was trying to leave that with the body when I stepped out of the body!" Of course, he's doing this kind of — he isn't telling you this. But he's got it in his chest. That's — that's him!

[К аудитории] Кстати, это просто стандартный... вы можете просто делать то же самое, что я делаю здесь, и вы будете в полной безопасности, работая с любым кейсом.

It isn't that the thetan has lungs, but he's got a sensation there which happens to fit in the vicinity of the lungs and when he's in the body, it's irritating to the lungs. You move him out of the body and here he is outside of his body, and he's got this horrible pain in his chest. So you audit him as a thetan to get rid of the pain. And that's very easy to do, because he simply reaches over and he says, "For gosh sakes, here's this pain." He couldn't get through this MEST to grab hold of it, he didn't think — and he says, "Here's this pain. Oh, what do you know, it's a little box says — it says something on it; I don't know. Well, throw it away, anyway." I mean it'll be something silly like that.He plays games with himself. He's got all kinds of circuits all set up.He's got all — is this guy complex as a mechanism. He's got himself several personalities. He's all equipped to be anything, except he doesn't dare be anything because he's got to figure it all out first. That's his first mistake.

And his second mistake is he thinks he moves. That's — that sounds silly, doesn't it? He thinks he moves.

Of course, everybody knows they move. V walks down the street, he, naturally, he goes over to the door and he opens the door, and he goes out and he walks down the street. He's moving. That's obvious, isn't it? Well, it's very obvious, but it doesn't happen to be true! What's moving? You're talking about a viewpoint of dimension. What's moving is the viewpoint of dimension. So what is moving in this case? The street. The street's moving. Why? Your V is using the anchor points of the MEST universe, and he's so dependent upon them that you aren't going to get him anyplace unless you let him use them a little bit. So, you know, get that as the pri — this is real idiocy.

PC: Yes, I've got them.

He — he never moves! He has never moved throughout all of time, but his environment has moved. That tells you right there how to process a V. That should be just snap, and you know how to process a V.

ПК: Да, я нашел их.

You say, "All right," to this fellow. You've got him sitting down in the chair, and he's just taken his hat off. And you say, "All right, now, move Nelson's monument under you."

"All right," he says, "but I doubt if I ... Well, mmm-mmm-mmm. It doesn't seem very real, though."

"Well, that's all right, move the Amazon jungle under you."

LRH: You’ve got them?

"Oka " y.

ЛРХ: Вы нашли их?

"All right, now move Peking under you. That's good. That's good. Now move central Canada under you. That's real good. Now move the North Pole under you. That's good. Now move the Washington Monument under you. That's good. Now move St. Paul's Cathedral under you. That's very, very good. Now move the Nile under you. That's good, that's fine. Now how about — how about Afghanistan? That's real good. Now how about the Pyramids? Okay. How about some palm trees down in the South Pacific? That's very good. How about the east Indian Ocean? Move that under you," so on.

In other words, you go on in this line. Every time he gives you, "Uh-huh," why, you move him to something else.

He says, "Say, you know, I'm outside." He says, "You're not kidding." He says, "You know what happened? I was just standing there. There's the waves running down there! Yeah, I'm — I'm out."

PC: Mm-hm.

Now he isn't — now here will come this beautiful interlude. Now here will come this interlude. He'll say, he'll say, "You know, I didn't think I was out because I've still got my lumbago. It still hurts; my back still hurts, and why is my back still doing . . ." And he'll look around and he'll say, "Well, the body is back there and it doesn't hurt. Well, you know that body is just . . . Well, this is me! Hurrah, hurrah! I think I'll go and sit down on a mountain some-place for a couple of thousand years and recover!"

ПК: Угу.

Now, how do you audit him? You audit him just the same way you audit any other thetan; there is just more wrong with him as a thetan. You've been trying to get him out as a point. He's not a point, he's a body. He's the whole universe.

Now, how long do we keep this up? Move this under him and move that under him? Now, understand this, never say, "Move over the" or "Be over the monument." Say, "Move the monument under you." "Move the environment" is the key to all this — "Move the environment," and he'll move around like a dream. He just audits like a dream; there's nothing to this. You give him a few of these — most of these V's — you give him a few of these and they say, "Well, well, well, well." They start to get real excited. Why? Because they're really out.

But remember, they've started using the MEST universe as anchor points and they're depending upon the MEST universe to keep their anchor points apart, so what? So the MEST universe is also depended upon to keep the distance apart between their facsimiles. Oh, isn't that horrible? I mean, this guy has got an engram bank and he's depending on something else to keep his engrams apart, and nothing is going to keep his engrams apart or off of his body or off of him as a theta body.

LRH: Hold on to them for a moment, and don’t think.

He's going to be sailing around out there over the east Indian Ocean, and all of a sudden he says, "You know, I just — still got this space opera engram hanging on my jaw." And you say, "Well, all right. Now let's see, let's be over Zanzibar. Now let's find a palm tree there in Zanzibar. That's real good. That's real good. Now take that facsimile and park it eight feet from the palm tree. Now, you got it there? Get that distance fixed right there, right at that palm tree. Eight feet, not eight feet and one inch, now just eight feet. Got it there fixed? Okay. Now, you get it fixed and don't let it move now! Now, be over the Washington Monument. Snap."

ЛРХ: Удерживайте их одну секундочку и не думайте.

Now, you say, "You over the Washington Monument?"

"Oh, yes, yes, yup, I'm here" and so on and so forth. "You know, I used to think I was afraid of — hoop! Whoops! I am — I am a little bit scared of height, yet, but ... I used to be very scared of it."

Now, you say, "Where is that facsimile?"

PC: The “don’t think” part comes hard.

"Oh, that's back there in Zanzibar."

ПК: Насчет «не думайте» – это трудно.

"Oh," you say, "it's back there in Zanzibar. In other words, you're depending on the MEST universe to keep these things apart, huh? Well, how about you taking a couple of these facsimiles and pull them apart and tell them to stay apart? Okay, you did that?"

"Yeah, they did too!"

"Well, how about picking the rest of the facsimiles off of the back of your neck there, and those past deaths off of your feet, and the time the auto — well, just take that automobile off of your face, and a few of these things and put them out here and put them at exact distances, one from another."

LRH: Mm-hm. Well, just get interested in the corners.

"Okay," he'll say. New idea to him. A new idea!

ЛРХ: Угу. Ну, просто заинтересуйтесь этими углами.

"Ah," you'll say to him, "now that you're out there in space or wherever you are, you can put out a beam. Why don't you try to put out a beam?" "Oh, I couldn't do that." And yet he can.

But what do you do? You just put him through the drills of the rest of the steps. But those I've just given you are absolutely essential to the V.

Now, I do not know whether your cases will uniformly crack under this. I believe, however, that you will have made an essential error if you don't find the V cracking immediately. And that error is simply this: You have mistaken a V for a VI. What is a V? He not only doesn't get mock-ups easily, you could say offhand he gets them patchily or none. He's pretty bad. He's pretty bad on mock-ups. He isn't putting out anchor points. When you tell him to throw his anchor points out they disappear. That's a V.

PC: Mm-hm.

What's a VI? A VI is neurotic. What's the test of being neurotic? That isn't saying he's damned. What is the test of being neurotic? It's simply this: He's unable to easily recall the things in the next-to-the-last list of Self Analysis: something really real, the time he was really in communication, and so forth.

ПК: Угу.

And boy, don't you ever let me catch you missing on that one. And you get a guy and you get him all the way down to W, don't test him as a V, test him as a VI, just as routine. Don't miss on it, please, because I've seen a preclear audited for eighty-five hours without anybody asking him, "Can you remember something real?" And he almost fell off the end of the couch with complete delight. He remembered something real; he remembered coming in the door of the Foundation that morning. So we shot the auditor and went on with the business. Well, anyway, there is your test. Don't test a V. Just ask him to remember something real; he'll maybe struggle around with it and ask him the list, and so on.

If you get to Case IV, Level IV, just skip ... And, he would — he doesn't do IV easily, just skip over it. Ask him something really real. And then you go on with this other act.

But if he's very, very bad at something really real; in other words, he's got a communication lag index there of fifteen, twenty seconds on each one of those questions, half a minute on something really real, the time he was really in communication, and all that sort of thing, boy he's a VI.

LRH: Find any old dirt or anything up there?

And what you want to do is go right to work with your little book, and say, "All right, now here's an exercise about time. Now, can you remember a time that was a long time ago? Can you create a scene that has to do with a long time ago? That's real good. Fine. Create a scene for that and create a scene for something else." And we go on down the line and we do some Self Analysis, and after we've done some Self Analysis then we simply move him out of his body by moving the MEST universe under him, and it gives him a viewpoint of dimension. He's completely overlooked the fact that he is his own viewpoint of dimension.

ЛРХ:Нашлитамкакую-нибудь слежавшуюся пыль или что-то еще?

And you take a lot of these I's; you ask them to step out of their heads and they're pretty foggy and they don't know whether it's up or down or so forth. And they tell you they're a little point and they can't change their minds rapidly and they don't appear to you to be any I. You could tell a I. They're young most of the time. Kids mostly.

And you say, "Well, all right, now where you got your facsimiles? You got a package of facsimiles there?" And this I will say, "Oh, yeah, I've got all of those facsimiles right here and . . ." Oh, he's all right. I mean, he's got these facsimiles wherever he is and he's got all this bric-a-brac, and he says, "Yes, I've got circuits and that sort of thing." But you say, "All right, now where's your facsimiles?"

"Why, I left those with the . . ." He doesn't know he's outside; he's kid-ding you. He doesn't even vaguely suspect he's outside. He's got some kind of a dim idea that maybe he's outside but he's already read a big long book on astral walking or something of the sort, and that's what he's doing and he's not a I. So don't let yourself get fooled on that.

PC: No, they look very, very clean.

The test is, does he come out complete? And what's complete? That's fully equipped with circuits and facsimiles and, in many cases, somatics.

ПК: Нет, они выглядят очень, очень чистыми.

How do you move him out, then, at the hot — toughest level to move any-body out on? How do you move him out? By moving the environment piece by piece under him. You'll find at first when you do this, he'll be scared. What do you do about this?

He says, "But it doesn't look real to me." Don't pay any attention. You do this until he finally breaks loose with a bright smile and says, "What do you know, that is the Indian Ocean. There is a ship! And look at the sea gull sitting on the bell buoy." And he's gotten real interested. You'll find him doing all sorts of things. You'll find him wanting to go down over the water and doing this and that and so forth. Let him, it's a big adventure.

Is a V's perception any worse in the body than out of the body? No. What the devil is he using those eyes for and what's he got glasses on them for?

LRH: Mm-hm.

Well, that's something you'll have to answer. I'm sure I wouldn't have any-thing to do with his pretending to be human.

ЛРХ: Угу.

What's the primary thing that you can expect to change in him? He'll think maybe he hasn't got any goals or anything of the sort, or that he's liable to fail. Or he may come back and say, "What do you know, I can do some of the things I wanted to do!" What you do is run him on the rest of the steps out of his body, not in his body. And what happens if he gets sent back in his body and gets stuck again? You move more environment under him in that kind of a drill. Now, these are geographical locations on the face of the Earth, and the further apart the better. And the further from his MEST body, the better.

And do you do the exercise of double-terminaling him with his body? That is, Step II? Well, you can omit it if you want to for a long time because when he gets close to that body he's liable to snap in. He's going to say, "Wait a minute, I'm outside of my body." Or he's liable to get such a re-echo, because he's the same shape, size and general description of the body.

Now, another thing a V has is terrible feeling of pretense. He feels he's pretending. He feels like everything is pretense. Everything is insincerity and everything is pretense and it's all pretense anyway, and that's all there is in the universe and that's horrible. Well, listen, don't let this worry you. That — that is the result of people telling him, "Oh, it doesn't hurt either."

PC: The left... the right-hand one is hard to get.

He cuts his finger; little kid. He says, "It hurts! It hurts!"

ПК: Левый... правый угол тяжело найти.

"No, it doesn't hurt. You're just pretending. It doesn't hurt," this, that, so on. "Oh, it's not really as bad." In other words, invalidation of his aches and pains and sorrow.

Now, you can expect a V to have been very badly invalidated on the subject of sorrow, unhappiness and so forth. He hasn't been permitted to be unhappy; he hasn't been permitted to be sad; he hasn't been permitted to be anything. Boy, he's really restricted to the dickens. So don't feel strange if this character is in a little bit sad shape when he comes outside. How do you remedy this? Well, you can look on your mimeographed sheet of steps and you will see there Step III and Step IV — Step IV, Step III given to him while he's out of his body will remedy this.

And that, I hope, pending further reports from auditors saying, "We are not able to pronounce the word 'move,' or something," I hope that finishes and buttons up the case of the V.

LRH: Mm, well keep putting it back there to get it.

Thank you very much.

ЛРХ: Угу, продолжайте помещать его туда, чтобы его можно было найти. [to audience] That, by the way, is – if you checked bodies on an E-Meter, you’d find out one half of the body is one sex and the other half of the body is the other sex according to the E-Meter. It’s very [К аудитории] Кстати, это... если вы начнете проверять тела на Е-метре, вы обнаружите, что одна половина тела одного пола, а другая половина тела – другого, согласно тому, что говорит Е-метр. Это просто fascinating. поразительно. PC: You've got me thinking about that. Now, how will I ever get these corners back here? ПК: Ну, теперь я думаю об этом. Как я вообще сумею вернуть эти углы на место? LRH: But you know what it will be. You’re not supposed to think! ЛРХ: Но вы знаете, что они там будут. Вы не должны думать! [to audience] You know what will happen if you check somebody on this. If the right- hand side is (this is something you don’t have to know), if the right– hand side is pretty badly out of communication, why, it’s doing a life continuum on Papa or Grandpa, like that. And the left-hand side is pretty bad off, and so forth, well, you’ve got a life continuum on women. But when you’re running Mama, Grandma, something like that, but when you’re running a case and you find out the left- hand side runs and the right-hand side doesn’t run, why, you know – have you ever noticed that? A stroke case? That’s a stroke case, you know? I mean, one half of the body is functioning, the other half of the body isn’t functioning, so forth? The half that is functioning will be intimately connected with somebody who’s had a stroke. All right, now just bluntly, I don’t care whether the preclear says so or not, it just works out that way, that’s all. So that if the left-hand side of the body was functioning, there’s a male member of the family who’s had a stroke. That’s all there is to it. [К аудитории] Вы знаете, что произойдет, если вы проверите это у кого-то. Если правая сторона тела... (Вам необязательно знать эти данные.) Если правая сторона тела в значительной степени находится вне общения, то она создает жизненный континуум папы или дедушки - именно так. А если левая сторона тела находится в плохом состоянии, это значит, что создается жизненный континуум женщин. Когда вы проходите маму, бабушку или кого-то такого, когда вы работаете с кейсом и обнаруживаете, что левая сторона поддается одитингу, а правая – нет, то вы знаете... вы когда-нибудь замечали такое? Кейс паралича? Это кейс паралича, понимаете? Я имею в виду, одна половина тела функционирует, а другая половина тела – нет. Та часть, которая функционирует, тесно связана с каким-то человеком, у которого был паралич. Именно так; неважно, говорит ли преклир, что это так, или не говорит; это просто происходит таким образом, вот и все. Так что если левая сторона тела функционирует, то у какого-то мужчины в семье был паралич. Вот и все, что тут можно сказать. What’s the matter with this person then? Is he imbalanced? Are his flows unbalanced or something like that? Well, no, no. You show – you’ll see this very marked, though, in some cases, and – that don’t immediately show up as having had a stroke. They’ve had one, one time or another! В таком случае, что происходит с этим человеком?Оннаходитсяв несбалансированном состоянии? Его потоки несбалансированны или что-то в этом роде? Нет, нет. Вы покажете... вы увидите это очень четко у некоторых кейсов, у которых, как кажется на первый взгляд, никогда не было паралича. Но когда-то он у них был! [to pc] Got those corners? [Преклиру] Нашли эти углы? PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Real good? ЛРХ: Как следует? PC: I've got one. ПК: Я нашел один. LRH: Get the other one. ЛРХ: Найдите второй. [to audience] See, now, this is... this is a little trick here. This is getting the control centers balanced in present time. And if you kept this up and made him keep fishing for the other corner, you’d come out in the long run with the control centers balanced. [К аудитории] Так вот, вы видите, это... здесь есть небольшая хитрость. Она состоит в том, чтобы привести контролирующие центры в сбалансированное состояние в настоящем времени. И если вы будете продолжать делать то же самое и заставлять преклира искать второй угол, то в конце концов контролирующие центры придут в сбалансированное состояние. If you want to know something about control centers, they’re all there in AP&A; it talks a lot about control centers, a subject that’s very, very unimportant: GE, how is the body built, what are the various control centers of the body. Если вы хотите что-то узнать о контролирующих центрах, все это описано в книге «Продвинутая процедура и Аксиомы»; там много говорится о контролирующих центрах, об этом очень, очень маловажном предмете: ГС, как устроено тело, каковы контролирующие центры тела. Somebody starts talking to you about nerve reflexes, though, what are these nerve reflexes? They’re subminds; they’re old circuits and control centers. Кто-то начинает говорить с вами о нервных рефлексах... что такое нервные рефлексы? Это вторичные разумы; это старые контуры и контролирующие центры. If somebody comes in, no feeling in this elbow and no control on this hand, what’s that mean? The control center is shot over here on the right-hand corner. Если к вам приходит человек, который не чувствует свой локоть и не контролирует эту руку, что это означает? Контролирующий центр в правом углу пришел в негодность. Got it yet? Вы его нашли? PC: There's one over here on the right, there... ПК: Вот один с правой стороны, вот... LRH: You just keep putting it back there. ЛРХ: Просто продолжайте помещать его туда. PC: ... and the left body here... ПК: ...и левая сторона здесь... LRH: You just keep putting it back there. ЛРХ: Вы просто продолжайте помещать его туда. PC: ... the left-hand – back. ПК: ...с левой стороны... сзади. LRH: Keep putting it back. ЛРХ: Продолжайте помещать его туда. PC: I know it’s there. ПК: Я знаю, что он там. LRH: It isn’t even important to get that side in present time, but we will. Feel it. ЛРХ: На самом деле неважно, будет ли у нас эта сторона в настоящем времени, но мы этого добьемся. Почувствуйте ее. PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Finally connect? ЛРХ: Наконец установили соединение? PC: I know the feeling of it. ПК: Я знаю, какой он на ощупь. LRH: Get somebody else to feel it from the other side. (pause) Now, have two dinosaurs feel it, start to feel it. ЛРХ: Пусть кто-то другой пощупает его с другой стороны. (Пауза) Теперь пусть два динозавра пощупают его, начнут чувствовать его. PC: Two what? ПК: Два кого? LRH: Dinosaurs. ЛРХ: Динозавра. PC: Oh yeah. ПК: О, да. LRH: Two big dinosaurs. They start to feel it. See, it’s dark. There must be something in that corner; this is adjudication. Let’s just speed up the process instead of fishing. Have these two big dinosaurs... ЛРХ: Два больших динозавра. Они начинают чувствовать это. Понимаете, там темно. В этом углу что-то должно быть; таково заключение. Так что давайте ускорим этот процесс, вместо того чтобы просто там ковыряться. Пусть эти два больших динозавра... PC: Yes. ПК: Да. LRH: ... and have them start to feel it and then suddenly say to each other, “My God, no! That’s Turnbull feeling that!” And run like hell! Have them do that now. ЛРХ: ...пусть они начнут чувствовать это, а потом внезапно скажут друг другу: «Боже мой, нет! Это Тернбилл его чувствует!» – и побегут прочь со всех ног! Пусть они сейчас это сделают. PC: Yeah. Here they've come to the other end. Yeah. ПК: Ага.Вот они, подошлисдругой стороны. Ага. LRH: Now, have two crocodiles come up there to get your anchor point that you’re trying to put up there and have them suddenly notice it’s you and get down and pray. ЛРХ: А теперь пусть два крокодила придут за той якорной точкой, которую вы пытаетесь поместить туда, а потом пусть они внезапно заметят, что это вы, опустятся на колени и начнут молиться. PC: Well the other one’s gone. ПК: Вот второй исчез. LRH: Well, get them both there now. You get that corner yet? ЛРХ: Ну, сделайте так, чтобы они оба оказались там. Вы уже нашли тот угол? PC: Yes, but it seems to be in the wrong place. ПК: Да, но он, похоже, не в том месте. LRH: The corner is in the wrong place? ЛРХ: Угол не в том месте? PC: Yeah. ПК: Ага. LRH: Well... ЛРХ: Ну... PC: Yeah, I’ll put it up there again. ПК: Ага, я помещу его туда снова. LRH: No, that’s all right. Now, you’ve got it in the wrong place. ЛРХ: Нет, все в порядке. Сейчас у вас есть угол не в том месте. [to audience] I’ll just do fancier auditing than you’ll ever have to do. [К аудитории] Я просто проведу более замысловатый одитинг, чем вам когда-либо нужно будет проводить. [to pc] Have two yeggs — you know, cosh- boys, gangsters... [Преклиру] Пусть два «медвежатника» – понимаете, два громилы, гангстера... PC: Yeah, I’ve got them up there. ПК: Ага, вот они. LRH: All right, all right. Have them holding that out of place, that corner where it’s out of place there? ЛРХ: Хорошо, хорошо. Они удерживают это не на месте – тот угол, который не на своем месте? PC: Oh yes. ПК: О да. LRH: Now have them holding that out of place until they suddenly realize who they’re doing this to, and have them both blow their brains out. Okay? ЛРХ: Пусть они удерживают его не на месте, а потом вдруг осознают, с кем они имеют дело, и оба пустят себе пулю в лоб. Хорошо? PC: Yes. I’ve got them back there again, now. ПК: Да. Сейчас они оба вернулись на место. LRH: Get them back in place now again? Okay. You get both corners now? ЛРХ: Сейчас они оба вернулись на место? Хорошо. У вас сейчас есть оба угла? PC: Yeah, near enough. ПК: Да, практически. LRH: Oh, good. Now how about being over Tasmania? Just make your body comfortable there a little bit more, shove down a little bit more... ЛРХ: О, хорошо. А теперь как насчет того, чтобы быть над островом Тасмания? Просто устройте свое тело немного поудобнее, чуть-чуть подвиньте его вниз... PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: ... so your head – lay your head back. All right, that’s right. ЛРХ: ...так, чтобы ваша голова... откиньте голову назад. Да, вот так. PC:I'mmorecomfortablethisway, actually. ПК: На самом деле мне так удобнее. LRH: Well, just so you can let go of your head. Can you let go of your head? ЛРХ: Ну, просто для того, чтобы вы могли отпустить свою голову. Вы можете отпустить свою голову? PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: All right. Now let’s be over Tasmania. ЛРХ: Хорошо. А теперь будьте над Тасманией. PC: Yes. ПК: Да. LRH: All right. Let’s be over the Amazon jungle. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Будьте над амазонскими джунглями. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Let’s be over Nelson’s monument. ЛРХ: Будьте над памятником Нельсону. PC: I've got a monument but it’s not Nelson’s. ПК: Я вижу памятник, но это не памятник Нельсону. LRH: Well, that’s all right. Now let’s be over Saint Paul’s Cathedral. ЛРХ: Ну, ничего страшного. Теперь будьте над собором Святого Павла. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Let’s be over the Cape – Cape Town. ЛРХ: Будьте над Кейп... Кейптауном. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Let’s be over the Indian Ocean. ЛРХ: Будьте над Индийским океаном. РС: Mm, pretty rough. ПК: М-м, он довольно бурный. LRH: Let’s be over the North Pole. ЛРХ: Будьте над Северным полюсом. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: What you got? ЛРХ: Что вы увидели? PC: Well, I get an ice cap with a pole on it. ПК: Ну, я вижу ледяную вершину со столбом на ней. LRH: Okay. Now where is it located with – in relation to you? ЛРХ: Хорошо. А где она расположена по отношению к вам? PC: It’s just below my feet. ПК: Прямо под моими ногами. LRH: Just below your feet? ЛРХ: Прямо под вашими ногами? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now are you locating all these below your feet? ЛРХ: Вы находите все эти места под своими ногами? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Locate them now in front of your face. Now, let’s be over Nelson’s monument again. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь находите их перед своим лицом. Снова будьте над памятником Нельсону. PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Now let’s be over the US Capitol building. ЛРХ: А теперь будьте над Капитолием в США. PC: Yes. ПК: Да. LRH: Now let’s be over Sydney. ЛРХ: А теперь будьте над Сиднеем. PC: I’m stuck there somehow. ПК: Я почему-то там застрял. LRH: Hm? What’s the matter? ЛРХ: А? Что случилось? PC: I seem to be stuck there. ПК: Похоже, я там застрял. LRH: You seem to be stuck there over Sydney? ЛРХ: Вы, похоже, застряли над Сиднеем? PC: Yeah. No, I can’t seem to get Sydney. ПК: Ага. Нет, я никак не могу найти Сидней. LRH: Can’t seem to get Sydney? ЛРХ: Никак не можете найти Сидней? PC: Mm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Get Melbourne. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Найдите Мельбурн. PC: No. But we’ll say it’s there. ПК: Нет.Номы скажем, что он там есть. LRH: You got Melbourne? ЛРХ: Вы нашли Мельбурн? PC: Yeah, there’s houses there. ПК: Да, там есть дома. LRH: Mm? ЛРХ: А? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Get Brisbane. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Найдите Брисбен. PC: I seem to get Auckland. ПК: Похоже, я нашел Окленд. LRH: All right. Make it Auckland. Take a look at Auckland. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Пусть это будет Окленд. Взгляните на Окленд. PC: Yeah, I see it. ПК: Да, я его вижу. LRH: Be right over Auckland. ЛРХ: Будьте прямо над Оклендом. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, be over the north end of Auckland. ЛРХ: А теперь будьте над северной частью Окленда. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, be over the south end of Auckland. ЛРХ: А теперь будьте над южной частью Окленда. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Be over the harbor. ЛРХ: Будьте над портом. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Be over Wellington. ЛРХ: Будьте над Веллингтоном PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, be over Perth, Australia. ЛРХ: А теперь будьте над Пертом в Австралии. PC: Mm, I’ve got something there. ПК: М-м, тут что-то есть. LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Be over the school building at 163... ЛРХ: Ага. Хорошо. Будьте над зданием школы, дом 163... PC: I’ve got it out in front of me. That’s where you want me there? Mm-hm. ПК: Оно прямо передо мной. Вы хотели, чтобы я был в этом месте? Угу. LRH: Mm-hm. Things getting clearer to you? Changing any? ЛРХ: Угу. Вещи становятся более четко видимыми? Они как-то меняются? PC: No, that’s about the same. ПК: Нет, это почти одинаково. LRH: About the same, huh? ЛРХ: Почти одинаково, a? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Be over the London Zoo. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Будьте над Лондонским зоопарком. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Did you catch yourself having to know where the zoo was before you could be over it? ЛРХ: Вы поймали себя на том, что вам нужно было знать, где находится этот зоопарк, прежде чем вы сможете быть над ним? PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: All right. Be out in front of 163. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Будьте перед домом 163. PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Be in the office at 163. ЛРХ: Будьте в офисе в доме 163. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Be right inside the door of the schoolroom at 163. ЛРХ: Будьте прямо в дверях школы в доме 163. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Okay. Be in front of my house. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Будьте перед моим домом. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Be here just in front of the platform. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Будьте здесь, прямо перед сценой. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: What happens when you do that? ЛРХ: Что происходит, когда вы это делаете? PC: Well, I just seem to be in front of the platform. ПК: Ну, просто похоже на то, что я нахожусь перед сценой. LRH: Mm-hm. Now, have you any chronic somatic? ЛРХ: Угу. Хорошо, у вас есть какая-нибудь хроническая соматика? PC: Yes, oh, a beaut. ПК: Да, о, крутизна. LRH: Hm? ЛРХ: А? PC: Every time I get to do any sort of thing my leg starts to jump around. ПК: Каждый раз, когда я начинаю что-то делать, моя нога начинает подскакивать. LRH: Did you just start this? ЛРХ: Это у вас только что началось? PC: Do I just start it? ПК: Это у меня только что началось? LRH: Did it just start? ЛРХ: Это только что началось? PC: No, it hasn’t started at all this time. ПК: Нет, в этот раз это вообще не начиналось. LRH: Hasn’t started at all? ЛРХ: Вообще не начиналось? PC: Mm-hm. No, it hasn’t always started, but after I've been at it for a little while... ПК: Ага. Это начинается не всегда, а после того, как я чем-то позанимаюсь некоторое время... LRH: Mm-hm. ЛРХ: Угу. PC: ...it starts to ... ПК: ...она начинает... LRH: Did you have any feeling of being out here? ЛРХ: У вас было какое-то чувство, что вы находитесь там, снаружи? PC: Ah well, I don’t know. ПК: Ну, я не знаю. LRH: Did you or didn’t you? Yes or no? ЛРХ: Оно у вас было или не было? Да или нет? PC: Well, I lost contact with this part. ПК: Ну, я потерял контакт с этой частью. LRH: Hm? ЛРХ: А? PC: Yes, I think I did. ПК: Да, по-моему, оно у меня было. LRH: All right. Did you have a feeling of having a lot of things with you while you were out? ЛРХ: Хорошо. Было ли у вас чувство, что вы носите с собой много вещей, пока вы находились снаружи? PC: No. ПК: Нет. LRH: You didn’t have that feeling? ЛРХ: У вас не было этого чувства? PC: No. ПК: Нет. LRH: Oh, all right. Put two thetans out in front of you saying to each other, “Now I have to abandon my home universe.” ЛРХ: Ну ладно. Поместите перед собой двух тэтанов, которые говорили бы друг другу: «Теперь мне нужно оставить мою домашнюю вселенную». PC: A bit difficult, yes. ПК: Немного трудно, да. LRH: All right. Keep putting them out there getting very pleased... ЛРХ: Хорошо. Продолжайте помещать их перед собой, пусть они становятся очень довольными... PC: Two thetans? ПК: Двух тэтанов? LRH: Yeah, just two circles of light, saying to each other— get them both saying it simultaneously – saying to each other, “Now I have to abandon my home universe.” ЛРХ: Да, просто два круга света, и они говорят друг другу... пусть они оба говорят это одновременно... говорят друг другу: «Теперь мне нужно оставить мою домашнюю вселенную». PC: Well, these... ПК: Ну, они... LRH: Just keep putting them out there saying that to each other. Hm? ЛРХ: Просто продолжайте помещать их туда, и пусть они говорят это друг другу. А? PC: ... these light-toned little men like on Wrigley’s Chewing Gum. ПК: ... эти маленькие светлые человечки, как те, что нарисованы на жвачке «Ригли». LRH: Well, okay. Okay. Keep them there and then keep putting them there as lights... ЛРХ: Ну, хорошо. Хорошо. Держите их там, продолжайте помещать их туда как круги света... PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: ... being pleased about abandoning the home universe. ЛРХ: ... которые довольны тем, что оставляют домашнюю вселенную. PC: Shaking hands with each other, and that sort of thing. ПК: Пожимают друг другу руки и все в таком роде. LRH: Can you get them? Have you got them, each one of them, saying that to the other one? ЛРХ: Вы можете их получить? Вы их получили – каждого из них, который говорил бы это другому? PС: Well, I can know they ’re doing it, yes, mm-hm. ПК: Ну, я знаю, что они это делают, да. LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Keep putting them there and get that feeling of pleasure coming from each one of them about abandoning the home universe. ЛРХ: Угу. Хорошо. Продолжайте помещать их перед собой и получите это ощущение удовольствия, исходящее от каждого из них: они довольны тем, что оставляют домашнюю вселенную. PC: I can’t get any pleasure in them, but I can get a great deal of pleasure myself with the idea of it. ПК: Мне не удается получить удовольствие в них, но я сам могу получить огромное удовольствие от этой идеи. LRH: Oh, you can get a pleasure at the idea of it, huh? ЛРХ: О, вы можете получить удовольствие от этой идеи, а? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. You get the pleasure out there from one of those to the other one. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Получите перед собой удовольствие, идущее от одного к другому. PC: They keep sticking together. ПК: Они все время склеиваются. LRH: Well, keep sticking them apart. I mean, just put new ones there all the time. Keep putting new ones there, put new ЛРХ: Ну, а вы все время разделяйте их. Я имею в виду, просто все время помещайте туда новых. Все время помещайте туда ones there. And each time you put them there, have them both say, “Oh, how wonderful it is to abandon all of my facsimiles.” This time have them say, “How wonderful it is to abandon all my facsimiles.” новых, помещайте туда новых. И каждый раз, когда вы их туда помещаете, пусть они оба говорят: «О, как прекрасно оставить все мои факсимиле». На этот раз пусть они говорят: «Как прекрасно оставить все мои факсимиле». PC: Well, every time I put this bloke out here, this one runs into it. ПК: Каждый раз, когда я помещаю туда этого парня, другой врезается в него. LRH: All right. Keep putting it out. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Продолжайте помещать их туда. PC: Yeah. ПК: Ага. LRH: Just keep putting them out. What’s the postulate they’re giving to each other there? ЛРХ: Просто продолжайте помещать их перед собой. Какой постулат они сообщают друг другу? PC: How happy they are that we’re leaving the home universe. ПК: Как они рады, что уходят из домашней вселенной. LRH: Abandoning it. Not just leaving it. ЛРХ: Оставляют ее. Не просто уходят из нее. PC: Abandoning it. Oh. ПК: Оставляют ее. О. LRH: Abandoning it forever. ЛРХ: Оставляют ее навсегда. PC: Have I got to get these two out here before they can – lean get them to postulate, you know. ПК: Мне нужно поместить этих двоих перед собой, прежде чем они смогут... я смогу заставить их постулировать, понимаете? LRH: Oh, you get them, you can just get that postulate out there. Throw the postulate out there. (pause) Getting it now? ЛРХ: О, вы заставляете их, а вы можете просто поместить этот постулат туда. Бросить этот постулат туда. (Пауза) Сейчас это получается? PC: Up to a moment ago I had quite a sad feeling. ПК: Я только что испытал сильную печаль, это прекратилось только секунду назад. LRH: Oh no. Well, what do you know. All right. Let’s put it out there again. Put it out there, “How happy they are to abandon forever and never see again the home universe.” (pause) Getting it now? ЛРХ: О нет. Ну ничего себе. Ладно. Давайте поместим их туда еще раз. Поместите их перед собой: «Как они рады навсегда оставить и никогда больше не видеть домашнюю вселенную». (Пауза) Сейчас вы это получаете? PC: No, I’m putting that postulate out there and I can get one over here reasonably well, but this other bloke – hard to control. ПК: Нет, я помещаю этот постулат туда, и я могу получить одного из них относительно хорошо, но вот этот второй парень – его трудно контролировать. LRH: Well, just keep putting them out there until you can get them both there. Still get the feeling of sadness on it? ЛРХ: Ну что же, просто продолжайте помещать их перед собой, пока они оба не окажутся там. Вы все еще испытываете печаль по этому поводу? PC: Just a moment ago I got another one. It’s silly, isn’t it. I nearly found myself putting a feel – a postulate of now sad I was. ПК: Буквально секунду назад она появилась у меня еще раз. Это глупо, не так ли? Я чуть не начал помещать чувст... постулат о том, каким печальным я являюсь. LRH: How happy you are. ЛРХ: Каким счастливым вы являетесь. PC: Hm. I’m actually getting a little steadier now. ПК: Хм. На самом деле сейчас я становлюсь более стабильным. LRH: Good. Now change it to “Abandon my memory and never know who I am again.” Get them both out there. How happy you are to abandon your personal memory and never know who you are again. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь измените постулат на «Оставить мою память и никогда больше не знать, кем я являюсь». Пусть они оба будут перед вами. Как вы рады оставить свою память и никогда больше не знать, кем вы являетесь. PC: These two thetans are saying that to each other? ПК: Эти два тэтана говорят это друг другу? LRH: Yeah. ЛРХ: Ага. PC: How happy they are? ПК: Как они рады? LRH: Mm-hm. They’re you! ЛРХ: Угу. Они – это вы! PC: Oh! ПК: О! LRH: They’re you. How happy— how happy you are. Mock yourself up twice as a thetan, in other words. ЛРХ: Они – это вы. Как рады... как вы рады. Другими словами, дважды смокапьте себя как тэтана. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Abandon all the facsimiles. ЛРХ: Оставить все факсимиле. PC: This bloke on this side seems to do all the talking. Could I have this fellow doing it too? ПК: Похоже, парень вот с этой стороны – единственный, кто разговаривает. Можно я заставлю того парня тоже это делать? LRH: Yes, sir, both of them. Get them feeling cheerful about it. ЛРХ: Да, конечно; их обоих. Пусть они чувствуют радость по этому поводу. PC: Oh yeah, they're all happy as Larry now. ПК: О да, сейчас они рады до безумия. LRH: Real happy now? ЛРХ: Сейчас они очень рады? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now how are we doing? ЛРХ: Ну и как у нас сейчас дела? PC: Yeah, they're out there. ПК: Ну, они там, снаружи. LRH: Doing better? ЛРХ: Дела идут лучше? PC: Being quite – yes, they’re as happy as they can be. ПК: Они очень... да, они рады просто до невозможности. LRH: Mm-hm. ЛРХ: Угу. PC: Just real happy. ПК: Просто очень рады. LRH: That’s you now? ЛРХ: Сейчас это вы? PC: Yeah. ПК: Ага. LRH: Yeah. ЛРХ: Ага. PC: Oh, I’m real happy, yeah. ПК: О, я очень рад, ага. LRH: You’re real happy? ЛРХ: Вы очень рады? PC: Yeah. ПК: Да. LRH: Never have any memory or anything? ЛРХ: Вы никогда бы не стали иметь память или что-то в этом роде? PC: Facsimiles? No, I wouldn’t. ПК: Факсимиле? Нет, я не стал бы. LRH: No facsimiles? ЛРХ: Никаких факсимиле? PC: No. ПК: Никаких. LRH: I said no memories. ЛРХ: Я сказал, никакой памяти. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now get them having no personal identity anymore. How happy they are never to have a personal identity anymore. ЛРХ: А теперь сделайте так, чтобы у них больше не было собственной идентности. Как они рады, что у них больше никогда не будет собственной идентности. PC: Mm. They’re jumping for joy. ПК: Угу. Они прыгают от радости. LRH: What’s the matter? ЛРХ: Что происходит? PC:They’redoinghandstands— happiness. ПК: Они стоят на голове... счастье. LRH: Okay, okay. Now, now we got that. Let’s be over Auckland again. ЛРХ: Хорошо, хорошо. Теперь... теперь у нас это получилось. Будьте опять над Оклендом. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Be over the north end of Auckland. ЛРХ: Будьте над северной частью Окленда. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: South end of Auckland. ЛРХ: Над южной частью Окленда. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Over Tasmania again. ЛРХ: Снова над Тасманией. PC: Mm-hm. I get an... ПК: Угу. Я получаю... LRH: Hm? ЛРХ: А? PC: I get an island with a lot of... ПК: Я получаю остров, на котором много... LRH: Now, let’s be real close to it. ЛРХ: Теперь будьте очень близко к нему. PC: Well, all I seem to get is a forest. ПК: Ну, похоже, все, что я получаю, – это лес. LRH: You got a forest! ЛРХ: Вы получили лес! PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Pick out a particular tree and be close to that. ЛРХ: Выберите какое-то одно дерево и будьте близко к нему. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: You got it? ЛРХ: Вы его нашли? PC: Yeah. ПК: Да. LRH: All right. Now be a little distance away from that tree. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь будьте на небольшом расстоянии от этого дерева. PC: About eight feet. ПК: Примерно в двух метрах. LRH: Okay. Now be over Hobart. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь будьте над Хобартом. PC: Over Hobart. No, I’m figuring again. ПК: Над Хобартом. Нет, я снова думаю. LRH: Yes, sure, you’re figuring. Let’s be over Hobart. ЛРХ: Да, конечно, вы думаете. Будьте над Хобартом. PC: Well, I know I’m over Adelaide now. ПК: Ну, я знаю, что сейчас я над Аделаидой. LRH: All right. Now let’s be right here. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь будьте прямо здесь. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: [to audience] I want to show you something. Your demonstration here so far and up to this moment, I have been using the word be, if you will notice. And if you have been recording this as a way to do it, I – you’ve missed the point. ЛРХ: [К аудитории] Я хочу вам кое-что показать. В этой демонстрации до сего момента я использовал слово «будьте», если вы заметили. И если вы записывали это как способ проводить этот процесс, я... вы упустили суть дела. [to pc] We had a circuit working here like mad, didn’t we? [Преклиру] У нас здесь изо всех сил работал контур, не так ли? PC: Yeah. ПК: Ага. LRH: Lets see now how far is Hobart from the – let’s see. And where are the forests? But yet you did have some little feeling, didn’t you? ЛРХ: Теперь давайте посмотрим, как далеко находится Хобарт от... давайте посмотрим. И где находятся леса? И при этом у вас были какие-то небольшие ощущения, не так ли? PC: Yes, very definitely. I lost consciousness of this... ПК: Да, определенно. Я перестал осознавать это... LRH: Yeah, all right, all right. ЛРХ: Ага, хорошо, хорошо. [to audience] So we have a level of workability. We’re actually not working a V level case here. The auditor that’s been working this case and hasn’t had him out of his body and working well should be shot. Anyway... Because this isn’t a Case Level V I’m working with, it’s about a III with a tape. [К аудитории] Итак, у нас есть определенный уровень действенности процесса. По существу, кейс, с которым мы здесь имеем дело, это не кейс уровня V. Одитор, который работал с этим кейсом и который не вывел преклира из тела и не добился, чтобы тот хорошо продвигался... этого одитора стоило бы застрелить. Как бы там ни было... ведь я здесь работаю не с кейсом уровня V, это примерно уровень III, у которого имеется лента. By the way, these tapes are terribly interesting. You’ll run into somebody sometime or other, and everything they read you off – the postulates they read you off – they’re reading. You want to find out about that. It’s an automaticity gimmick that they have worked up. And it’s one of the favorite ways of fixing up a circuit. Кстати, эти ленты ужасно интересны. Иногда вы сталкиваетесь с кем-то, и все, что он вам зачитывает... постулаты, которые он вам зачитывает... он это читает. Вам стоит выяснить все об этом. Это автоматизм, который преклир создал. И это один из самых распространенных способов установить контур. [to pc] You haven’t got a tape, but a couple of times when you were mentioning these little men, you said, with great surprise, these little men with chewing gum, they were – I tell you to get a couple of thetans... [Преклиру] У вас нет ленты, но пару раз, когда вы упоминали этих маленьких человечков, вы сказали с большим удивлением... эти маленькие человечки со жвачкой, они... Я попросил вас получить пару тэтанов... PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: ... and so on. Well, that’s a specimen of automaticity. Well, that can go so far as everything the person is going to say appears on a little tape up here, you see, and he reads it off. And he says, “How are you, Joe?” See? That goes so far, but I’m just showing you a gradient scale of automaticity. We have a certain amount of automaticity, so we’ve got a circuit here. The second he says something like that, we say, “All right, boy, we’re going to be ЛРХ: ...и так далее. Так вот, это образчик автоматизма. И это может зайти настолько далеко, что все слова человека, которые он собирается произнести, появляются на маленькой ленточке вот здесь, понимаете, и он читает, что там написано. Он говорит: «Как твои дела, Джо?» Понимаете? Это может зайти вот настолько далеко; я просто показываю вам градиентную шкалу автоматизма. У нас здесь проявлялось некоторое количество автоматизма, то есть working on this basis: We have to know where we are before we can be there.” Now, you’ve seen that circuit to some degree in action. здесь работал контур. В ту секунду, когда нам говорят что-то такое, мы говорим: «Ну хорошо, мы собираемся действовать исходя из следующего принципа: нам нужно знать, где мы находимся, прежде чем мы сможем там быть». Вы видели этот контур в действии. Now, let’s alter this technique down to a very proper technique. Okay. Shut your eyes now. А теперь давайте изменим эту технику и превратим ее в совершенно правильную технику. Хорошо. Теперь закройте глаза. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Now move Saint Paul’s Cathedral under you. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь переместите собор Святого Павла так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Move it to the right. ЛРХ: Переместите его вправо. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Move it to the left. ЛРХ: Переместите его влево. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Move Nelson’s monument under you. ЛРХ: Переместите памятник Нельсону так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move Tasmania under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите Тасманию так, чтобы она оказалась под вами. PC: I’ve got something moving under me, anyway. ПК: Во всяком случае, что-то подо мной перемещается. LRH: Yeah, all right. Now move Hobart under you. ЛРХ: Ага, хорошо. Теперь переместите Хобарт так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Okay. Now move Auckland under you. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь переместите Окленд так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: I’ve got the whole lot moving under me now; I’ve got the world. ПК: Теперь подо мной перемещается огромное множество всего; целый мир. LRH: Oh yeah? Well, how about easing back under now and getting out – picking out Auckland and moving it under you. ЛРХ: О, правда? Хорошо, как насчет того, чтобы немного сбавить ход и получить... взять Окленд и переместить его так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Okay. ПК: Хорошо. LRH: Phew. Okay. Picking out Auckland and moving it under you. ЛРХ: Ух! Хорошо. Возьмите Окленд и переместите его так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Well, I'll have to dispose of this around... ПК: Ну, мне придется избавиться от всего этого вокруг... LRH: Hm? Dispose of it? ЛРХ: А? Избавиться от этого? PC: Mm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Well, just bring it up to your face. Move it up closer to you. ЛРХ: Просто поднесите это к своему лицу. Переместите это ближе к себе. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Does it move further away when you do that? ЛРХ: Когда вы это делаете, оно перемещается еще дальше прочь? PC: No, it comes up. ПК: Нет, оно приближается. LRH: All right. Just move it right on up close to you. Now move it up close to you to a point where you’ve got your... ЛРХ: Хорошо. Просто переместите это так, чтобы оно оказалось близко-близко к вам. Переместите это так, чтобы оно оказалось настолько близко к вам, что ваш... PC: Got it on the end of my nose now. ПК: Оно сейчас у меня на кончике носа. LRH: All right. You’ve got — where’s Hobart? ЛРХ: Хорошо. Вы получили... где находится Хобарт? PC: Maybe it’s the point I’ve got my nose stuck to. ПК: Возможно, это та точка, в которую уперся мой нос. LRH: Okay. Move yourself much closer to Hobart. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Переместите себя гораздо ближе к Хобарту. PC: Well... ПК: Ну... LRH: What’s the matter? ЛРХ: В чем дело? PC: This is too silly for words. I’ve got a ball here with a Plasticine map on it. Like a... ПК: Это настолько глупо, что даже не описать. У меня здесь шар, на котором изображена карта из пластилина. Как... LRH: Oh, where is that? Where is that? ЛРХ:О,гдеэтонаходится?Гдеэто находится? PC: Well, I’ve just got it here. ПК: Ну, оно у меня просто вот здесь. LRH: Yeah, I know, but where is that globe? ЛРХ: Да, я знаю, но где находится этот глобус? PC: Where is it? ПК: Где он? LRH: Yeah, where is the original of that globe you’re using there? ЛРХ:Да,гденаходитсяоригиналтого глобуса, который вы здесь используете? PC: Oh, I don’t know. ПК: О, я не знаю. LRH: You got that? Have you got that at home? ЛРХ: Он у вас есть? Он есть у вас дома? PC: No. ПК: Нет. LRH: Hm? ЛРХ: А? PC: Oh, wait, yes. I have, too. ПК: О, погодите, да. Он у меня и правда есть. LRH: Yes, yes, you have, too. Well, I didn’t tell you to look it up on a globe. Look it up on this globe. All right. Now let’s move over Saint Paul’s. ЛРХ: Да, да, он у вас и правда есть. Ну, я не просил вас находить это место на глобусе. Найдите это место вот на этом глобусе. Хорошо. Теперь переместитесь так, чтобы быть над собором Святого Павла. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Move it under you. ЛРХ: Переместите его так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, move it right up close to you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите его так, чтобы он оказался близко-близко к вам. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, let’s inspect the engraving on top of it, or whatever you find there on top of it. I don’t know what’s on top of it, but there might be a cross or something up there. ЛРХ: Теперь рассмотрите то, что выгравировано на нем сверху – или что угодно, что вы обнаружите на нем сверху. Я не знаю, что там наверху, но там, возможно, есть крест или что-то такое. PC: When you said that, I... there was a cross there. ПК: Когда вы это сказали, я... там был крест. LRH: All right. Well, what is there there? Just look it over; I don’t know. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Ну а что там есть? Просто осмотрите это; я не знаю. PC: I've got a gold cross. ПК: Я увидел золотой крест. LRH: Okay. Let’s look it over. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Осмотрите его. PC: Well, it just seems to have rich writing on it; I don’t know what the writing is. ПК: Похоже, он весь покрыт какими-то письменами; я не знаю, что они означают. LRH: All right. ЛРХ: Хорошо. PC: Rich writing. ПК: Весь покрыт письменами. LRH: Now let’s move it much closer and see if you can get a little tactile on it. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите его так, чтобы он оказался гораздо ближе к вам, и попробуйте ощутить прикосновение к нему. PC: Nah. ПК: Не-а. LRH: Okay, okay. Now let’s move Nelson’s monument under you. ЛРХ: Хорошо, хорошо. Теперь переместите памятник Нельсону так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC:Well,Igotawholeswagof monuments then. ПК: Я получил целую кучу памятников. LRH: A whole bunch of them, huh? ЛРХ: Целую кучу, а? PC: Mm. The most outstanding one was the one I’ve just seen in Edinburgh. ПК: Угу.Самымзаметнымбылтот, который я только что видел в Эдинбурге. LRH: Well, let’s move Nelson’s monument under you. Now, let’s move Piccadilly ЛРХ: Ну хорошо, переместите памятник Нельсону так, чтобы он оказался под вами. Circus under you. А теперь переместите Пикадилли-серкус так, чтобы она оказалась под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, let’s put Saint Paul’s Cathedral a certain distance from Nelson’s monument. Let’s put a brace between them and block them apart. ЛРХ: А теперь поместите собор Святого Павла на определенном расстоянии от памятника Нельсону. Вставьте между ними распорки и закрепите их на расстоянии друг от друга. PC: Well, I've got a... I’ve got someone riding a horse here. Is that Nelson’s monument? ПК: Ну, я получил... Я увидел какого-то человека на коне. Это памятник Нельсону? LRH: Well, put it at a certain distance. ЛРХ: Ну, поместите это на определенном расстоянии. PC: Yes. ПК: Да. LRH: All right. Now be over the school. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь будьте над школой. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move the school under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите школу так, чтобы она оказалась под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Now move the top of the school – the edge of the ledge – directly under you so that you’re sitting on it. Just move it up under you so you’re sitting on it. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь переместите верхнюю часть здания школы... край карниза... так, чтобы он оказался прямо под вами, чтобы вы сидели на нем. Просто переместите его так, чтобы он находился прямо под вами и вы сидели на нем. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Got that? ЛРХ: Сделали это? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, let’s inspect the view. ЛРХ:Хорошо,теперьпосмотритена открывающийся вид. PC: Oh, I can see the street out here. ПК: О, я вижу улицу вот здесь. LRH: All right. ЛРХ: Хорошо. PC: Postbox. ПК: Почтовый ящик. LRH: Now, let’s be the same height above the street, but move the middle of the street under you ЛРХ: Теперь будьте на той же высоте над улицей, но переместите середину улицы так, чтобы она оказалась под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите край здания так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move the middle of the street under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите середину улицы так, чтобы она оказалась под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите край здания так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move the middle of the street under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите середину улицы так, чтобы она оказалась под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move the edge of the building under you. What you got? ЛРХ: Теперь переместите край здания так, чтобы он оказался под вами. Что вы получили? PC: Well, Fm realizing that I've got to more over to the building to move the edge of the building under me. ПК: Ну, я осознаю, что мне нужно переместиться к зданию, для того чтобы переместить край здания так, чтобы он оказался подо мной. LRH: You’re realizing this now, huh? ЛРХ: Вы сейчас это осознаете, а? PC: Well, I have been doing that. ПК: Ну, я так и поступал. LRH: Ho! All right. Now let’s get a tactile on the edge of the building. ЛРХ:Ага!Хорошо.Теперьощутите прикосновение к краю здания. PC: Mm-hm, I can imagine the feel of it. ПК: Угу, я могу представить себе, какое оно на ощупь. LRH: All right. Let’s just feel it, though. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Однако давайте вы просто почувствуете его. PC: I get very conscious of this chair as soon as I go do that. ПК: Как только я начинаю делать это, я начинаю очень четко ощущать этот стул. LRH: Mm! Mm-hm! Would it be very upsetting if you did feel it? ЛРХ: А! Ага! Вас очень расстроило бы, если бы вы его действительно почувствовали? PC: No. ПК: Нет. LRH: It wouldn’t, huh? All right. Move that edge of the building under you again, and this time just above the thing put a mock- up. ЛРХ: Это вас не расстроило бы, а? Хорошо. Снова переместите этот край здания так, чтобы он оказался под вами, и на этот раз поместите прямо над ним мокап. PC: Move the edge of the building under me? ПК: Переместить край здания так, чтобы он оказался подо мной? LRH: Mm-hm. And put a mock-up just above the tactile and feel – the thing you’re going to get a tactile of – and then feel the mock-up. In other words, mock up a tactile for it. (pause) Do that? ЛРХ: Угу. И поместите мокап прямо над тем, что вы пытались осязать, а потом почувствуйте... над той штукой, прикосновение к которой вы собираетесь ощутить... а потом почувствуйте этот мокап. Другими словами, смокапьте осязательное ощущение этого. (Пауза) Сделали это? PC: Mock up someone on the edge of the building, have them feeling the building? ПК: Смокапить кого-то на краю здания и сделать так, чтобы он чувствовал здание? LRH: Well, oh, all right, if you want to do it that way. ЛРХ: Ну, хорошо, если вы хотите сделать это таким образом. PC: Is that what you want me to do? ПК: Это то, что вы хотите, чтобы я сделал? LRH: Sure. ЛРХ: Да. PC: Yeah, I can mock up someone standing there. ПК: Ага, я могу смокапить человека, стоящего там. LRH: All right. Now move the edge of the building under you again. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь снова переместите край здания так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Now I’m sitting on the edge of the building. ПК: Теперь я сижу на краю здания. LRH: All right. Now move that place they just touched under you. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь переместите то место, к которому он только что прикоснулся, так, чтобы оно оказалось под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now touch it. ЛРХ: Теперь прикоснитесь к нему. PC: I just become very conscious of the chair again. ПК: Я просто снова стал очень четко ощущать стул. LRH: Uh-huh, direct communication. Okay. Now move a lorry out here under you on the street. ЛРХ: Ага, непосредственное общение. Хорошо. Теперь переместите грузовик так, чтобы он оказался под вами на улице. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Got one? ЛРХ: Сделали это? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Keep it moving on up the street. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Пусть он продолжает ехать по улице. PC: Keep it moving on up the street? ПК: Продолжает ехать по улице? LRH: Well, keep moving it on up the street. ЛРХ: Да, продолжайте вести его вперед по улице. PC: I’ve got it moved under me; I can move it on... ПК: Он движется подо мной; я могу двигать его вперед... LRH: Got it moving under you? ЛРХ: Он движется под вами? PC: I’ve got it under me here. ПК: Он находится подо мной здесь. LRH: Huh? ЛРХ: А? PC: I’ve got it under me... under me here. ПК: Он подо мной... подо мной здесь. LRH: You’re in the chair? ЛРХ: Вы на стуле? PC: Yeah. ПК: Ага. LRH: And it’s under you here? ЛРХ: И он находится под вами здесь? PC: Yeah. ПК: Ага. LRH: No. You move the lorry under you in the street. Is the street under your chair? ЛРХ: Нет. Перемещайте грузовик под вами на улице. Улица находится под вашим стулом? PC: No, I’ve got to get out there to get over it. ПК: Нет, мне нужно выбраться туда, чтобы преодолеть это. LRH: That’s what we’re doing, isn’t it? You’ve got to get out there to get over it. ЛРХ: Мы именно этим и занимаемся, не так ли? Вам нужно выбраться туда, чтобы преодолеть это. PC: All right. I’ve got the street back under me. ПК: Хорошо. Улица снова подо мной. LRH: Oh, you’ve got that, now? ЛРХ: О, теперь вы получили ее? PC: Yeah, I’ve got the lorry, too. ПК: Ага, и грузовик я тоже получил. LRH: You’ve got the lorry, huh? All right. Now let’s just get that lorry moving along. Let’s just check up on this conductor. ЛРХ: Вы получили грузовик, а? Хорошо. Теперь пусть этот грузовик просто движется вперед. И давайте взглянем на сопровождающего. PC: Oh, I had an ordinary lorry. I call a lorry one that carts shingles. ПК: О, у меня был обычный грузовик. Я называю грузовиком ту штуку, которая возит доски. LRH: Okay. ЛРХ: Хорошо. PC: I check up on the driver? ПК: Я взгляну на водителя? LRH: Mm-hm. Check up on the driver. Now move the driver’s head just in front of yours. ЛРХ: Ага. Взгляните на водителя. Теперь переместите голову водителя так, чтобы она оказалась прямо перед вашей. PC: Wait a minute. I’ve got this all tangled up again. The street... ПК: Минуточку. У меня снова все это перепуталось. Улица... LRH: Just take ahold of his head and move it in front of yours. Just move his head in front of you. ЛРХ: Просто возьмите его голову и переместите ее так, чтобы она оказалась перед вашей. Просто переместите его голову, поместите ее перед собой. PC: I've got his head up here. ПК: Я получил его голову вот здесь. LRH: That’s all right. ЛРХ: Все нормально. PC: Mm-hm. God, what a queer-looking head. ПК: Угу. Боже, как странно выглядит эта голова. LRH: You’re in this chair? ЛРХ: Вы сидите на этом стуле? PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Huh? ЛРХ: А? PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Oh, I see. ЛРХ: О, я понял. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Well, you have a lovely mock-up sitting there. There’s an automatic mock- up; it’s wonderful, wonderful. That’s real great. You don’t have to feel anything, you see, when you do that. Now, look-a-here, you just move out there and grab ahold of the lorry, move it under you. Just move that lorry. ЛРХ: Ну что же, у вас там сидит прекрасный мокап. Это автоматический мокап; он прекрасен, просто прекрасен. Это просто отлично. Понимаете, когда вы это делаете, вам не нужно ничего чувствовать. Так вот, смотрите, вы просто перемещаетесь вон туда, беретесь за грузовик и перемещаете его так, чтобы он оказался под вами. Просто перемещаете этот грузовик. PC: Bring the lorry in here and move it under me here? ПК: Принести грузовик сюда и передвигать его здесь, так, чтобы он был подо мной? LRH: No sir! You leave that lorry right where it is and move it under you. ЛРХ: Ну нет! Оставьте грузовик там, где он есть, и переместите его так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: All right, I'm... yes, I've got a lorry moving out from under me and I'm out in the street moving it under me. ПК: Хорошо, я... да, вот грузовик движется подо мной; я на улице, и я перемещаю его так, чтобы он был подо мной. LRH: Okay, all right. Now move the inside of the lorry around. ЛРХ: Хорошо, отлично. Теперь перемещайте внутреннюю часть грузовика вокруг. PC: Now, I jump back here again each time. ПК: Каждый раз я перепрыгиваю обратно сюда. LRH: Oh, uh-huh. All right. Now reach out and grab the inside of the lorry... ЛРХ: О, ага. Хорошо. Теперь потянитесь, возьмите внутреннюю часть грузовика... PC: Yup ПК: Ага. LRH: ... and move that around you. ЛРХ: ...и перемещайте ее вокруг себя. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Got that moved around you? ЛРХ: Переместили ее вокруг себя? PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Look at the signs. ЛРХ: Посмотрите на вывески. PC: The sides? ПК: Выверки? LRH: Signs, posters, advertisements. ЛРХ: Вывески – объявления, плакаты. PC: Mickey Mouse came into my mind for some reason or other. ПК: Почему-то мне вспомнился Микки-Маус. LRH: Hm. How’s the inside of this lorry look? Here’s the bus, look. Look, is the bus in motion? ЛРХ: Хм. Как выглядит внутренняя часть этого грузовика? Вот эта машина, смотрите. Смотрите, эта машина движется? PC: No, I've got ahold of it and I'm moving it around me. ПК: Нет. Я ее держу, и я двигаю ее вокруг себя. LRH: Now where are you? ЛРХ: А где находитесь вы? PC: I'm out in the street. ПК: Я – там, на улице. LRH: You’re out in the street moving it around you. Well, you grab ahold of a real bus; they don’t bite. Now the one – grab ahold of that bus, move it under you. Just hold it under you and let it go on down the street. ЛРХ: Вы находитесь на улице и двигаете ее вокруг себя. Возьмите настоящую машину; она не кусается. Теперь... возьмите эту машину, двигайте ее так, чтобы она была под вами. Просто держите ее под собой и позвольте ей ехать по улице. PC: The more I try to do that, the more I become conscious of this chair. ПК: Чем больше я пытаюсь это сделать, тем четче я осознаю этот стул. LRH: Oh? Oh? All right. Push that lorry away from you. ЛРХ:О?О?Хорошо.Оттолкнитеэтот грузовик от себя. PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: What happens when you do that? ЛРХ: Что происходит, когда вы это делаете? PC: I can push it up the street. ПК: Я могу оттолкнуть его, чтобы он уехал прочь по улице. LRH: Push it away harder. ЛРХ: Оттолкните его сильнее. PC: It keeps coming back again. ПК: Он продолжает возвращаться назад. LRH: No! Push it away real hard! ЛРХ: Нет! Оттолкните его с большой силой! PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Where are you? ЛРХ: Где вы находитесь? PC: As soon as you said that, I’m back in the chair. ПК: Как только вы это произнесли, я снова оказался на стуле. LRH: Okay. Now push it away real hard now, and keep pushing it away. Now fight it. Shove it off of you. Move it away from you! Got it? ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь оттолкните его от себя с очень большой силой и продолжайте отталкивать его. Теперь боритесь с ним. Отшвыривайте его от себя. Убирайте его от себя! Получилось? PC: Lets see, I sort of swing out there and in here and... ПК: Дайте-ка посмотреть... я как бы качаюсь между «там» и «здесь» и... LRH: Mm-hm, mm-hm. All right. Now let’s move it away from you. But I tell you what you do. Let’s move, let’s move the street corner out here as far away from you as you can get. Just give it a hard shove and move it way away from you. ЛРХ: Угу, угу. Хорошо. Давайте уберем его от вас. Я скажу вам, что делать. Переместите... переместите перекресток вот здесь, снаружи, так далеко от себя, как вы только можете. Просто толкните его изо всех сил и переместите его далекодалеко от себя. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: You got it? What happened? ЛРХ: Вы это сделали? Что произошло? PC: Well, I’m moving it – the street corner further down the street. ПК: Ну, я его двигаю... двигаю перекресток дальше и дальше вдоль улицы. LRH: Moving it further down the street? ЛРХ: Двигаете его дальше по улице? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Uh-huh. Is it detached from the ЛРХ: A-а. Он отделен от тротуара или что-то sidewalk or anything? в этом роде? PC: Yeah, the whole thing has sort of gone away from me. I pushed it away from me. ПК: Ага, вся эта штука как бы ушла от меня. Я оттолкнул ее от себя. LRH: Oh, you did push it away from you that time? ЛРХ: О, вы таки оттолкнули ее от себя в тот раз? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Well, good! Grab ahold of it and move it under you. ЛРХ: Ну, хорошо! Возьмите ее и переместите так, чтобы она оказалась под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: You got it now? ЛРХ: Вы это получили? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, how’s that? More satisfactory? ЛРХ: Ну, как оно? Получше? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, I want you, without any orders from me, to move yourself over each one of the five continents. And everybody is going to be very quiet and we’ll make sure nobody eats your body up. And just move yourself over each one of the five continents, move yourself down close, take a look and then move yourself over a couple of oceans, and then move back here with no farther communication to you, via this body. Okay? ЛРХ: А сейчас я хочу, чтобы вы, не получая от меня никаких приказов, переместили себя так, чтобы оказаться над каждым из пяти континентов. Все здесь будут сидеть очень тихо, и мы проследим за тем, чтобы никто не съел ваше тело. Просто переместите себя так, чтобы оказаться над каждым из пяти континентов, переместите себя вниз, близко к земле, взгляните на то, что находится под вами, а потом переместите себя так, чтобы оказаться над парочкой океанов, а потом переместитесь обратно сюда; в это время я не буду больше никак общаться с вами через посредство этого тела. Хорошо? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Let’s do that. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Давайте это сделаем. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: You back? ЛРХ: Вы вернулись? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. What happened? ЛРХ: Хорошо. Что произошло? PC: Well, I visualized each of the places in turn, and... ПК: Ну, я представил себе каждое из этих мест по очереди и... LRH: You visualized them, or did you move them under you? ЛРХ: Вы представили их себе или вы переместили их так, чтобы они оказались под вами? PC: Well, they were under me — under me. I went down to them each time. ПК: Ну, они были подо мной... подо мной. Я каждый раз опускался к ним. LRH: Oh, you did. Okay. ЛРХ: О, вы опускались. Хорошо. PC: Mm-hm. And I just came up again. Had a feeling of coming up. ПК: Угу. И я просто поднимался снова. У меня было чувство, что я поднимался. LRH: What did you – what did you see? ЛРХ: Что вы... что вы видели? PC: Well, in each case I'd seen a scene of a particular place I was in. One was Iceland with a scene of ice; that was an easy one. ПК: Ну, в каждом случае я видел картину какого-то определенного места, в котором я находился. Одним таким местом была Исландия, и там был ледяной пейзаж; это было легко определить. LRH: Mm-hm. ЛРХ: Угу. PC: China – a Chinese scene. And in France. ПК: Китай...китайскийпейзаж.Иво Франции. LRH: Were they in motion? What was your feeling of reality about these scenes? ЛРХ: Они находились в движении? Каким было ваше чувство реальности относительно этих пейзажей? PC: Oh, very, very slight. ПК: О, очень, очень слабым. LRH: Hm? ЛРХ: А? PC: Very slight. ПК: Очень слабым. LRH: Very slight? ЛРХ: Очень слабым? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Your reality is very slight on these things? ЛРХ: Ваша реальность по поводу этих вещей была очень слабой? PC: Very slight, yes. ПК: Да, очень слабой. LRH: Was it better than it had been before? ЛРХ: Она была лучше, чем раньше? PC: Oh yes, definitely yes. I had a feeling of lifting up and down through them. ПК: О да, несомненно да. У меня было чувство, что я поднимаюсь и опускаюсь к этим местам. LRH: Good, good, good. All right. Now this time why don’t you, why don’t you – you know, there’s a number of islands here... ЛРХ: Хорошо, хорошо, хорошо. Ладно. На этот раз почему бы вам не... почему бы вам не... Знаете, тут есть некоторое количество островов... PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: ... in the British Isles. ЛРХ: ...они входят в Британские острова. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: And why don’t you just sit there and move now to — the way you do it, you know, just move these — move Ireland under you and one by one, every time you see an island, every time you see an island or a new one you’d like to move under you, you just move that one under you. And just go rapidly in sequence and take a close-up look at each one of these. ЛРХ: Почему бы вам, сидя здесь, не переместиться на этот раз к... Способ делать это состоит в том, чтобы просто перемещать их... переместить Ирландию так, чтобы она оказалась под вами, и так далее, один за другим; каждый раз, когда вы видите остров... каждый раз, когда вы видите остров или новое место, которое вы хотели бы переместить под себя, -вы просто перемещаете это место так, чтобы оно оказалось под вами. И просто быстро переходите от одного к другому и внимательно рассматривайте каждый из них. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: And we won’t tell the transport companies what we’re doing here, because they lose money on this. Okay, nobody will disturb you here or make any noise in the room. ЛРХ: И мы не скажем транспортным компаниям, чем мы тут занимаемся, потому что они теряют на этом прибыли. Хорошо, никто не будет вас беспокоить или шуметь в этой комнате. PC: Hm. These places or something seems ПК: Хм. Эти места или что-то такое, to move under me, but I can't seem to get down to it. похоже, отзываются подо мной, но у меня не получается опускаться к ним. LRH: Oh, having a rough time. ЛРХ: О, вам трудно. PC: Mm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Well, did it occur to you to move it up to you? ЛРХ: Вам не приходило в голову перемещать эти места наверх, ближе к себе? PC: No, it didn’t. ПК: Нет, не приходило. LRH: Okay. Let’s go on the same tour again, and each time now let’s move it up to you. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Давайте отправимся в тот же самый тур снова, и теперь каждый раз придвигайте это к себе. PC: We’ve gone haywire here. ПК: Что-то идет не так. LRH: What’s happened? ЛРХ: Что произошло? PC: Well, it seems that when I got to Germany I seem to be sitting on a boat. And on the boat there’s a German. Kind of got his memories of childhood and ideas, too – and there’s a German with one of those hats with a spike on the top. He’s leaning over the front with a woman, both in old-fashioned dress. ПК: Ну, похоже, что когда я попал в Германию... я, похоже, плыву на лодке. И на этой же лодке плывет какой-то немец. Я как бы воспринял его воспоминания детства и его идеи; и там немец в такой шапке с острием. Он нагибается к передней части лодки вместе с какой-то женщиной, оба в старомодной одежде. LRH: Mm-hm. All right. What happened when you went over these islands? ЛРХ: Угу. Хорошо. Что произошло, когда вы перемещались над этими островами? PC: Well, there seemed to be scenes come into my mind. I seemed to see scenes very similar to what one would see in the cinema. ПК: Ну, по-моему, мне в голову приходили разные пейзажи. По-моему, я видел пейзажи, очень похожие на то, что можно увидеть в кино. LRH: Mm-hm. Did you move these... ЛРХ: Угу. Вы перемещали эти... PC: One cinema I’ve seen did come in actually. ПК: Одно кино, которое я видел, на самом деле промелькнуло. LRH: Mm-hm. All right. Did you move these islands under you? ЛРХ: Угу. Хорошо. Вы перемещали эти острова так, чтобы они оказались под вами? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Each time? ЛРХ: Каждый раз? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Did you move yourself down to them? ЛРХ:Выперемещалисебятак,чтобы оказаться внизу, вблизи от них? PC: Yes. ПК: Да. LRH: Back away? ЛРХ: И обратно, чтобы отдалиться от них? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: What was the change in the island? ЛРХ: Как менялись острова? PC: Well, I just seemed to land in a certain particular part of the town that I cared to move under. I moved a town, I moved France under me. ПК: Ну, я, похоже, приземлялся в определенном месте города – в том месте, которое я хотел переместить под себя. Я переместил один город, я переместил Францию так, чтобы она оказалась подо мной. LRH: Yeah. ЛРХ: Ага. PC: And I seemed to go down to a particular part of a town of France. ПК: И я, похоже, опустился в определенную часть одного города во Франции. LRH: Mm-hm. ЛРХ: Угу. PC: And this particular instance, a scene – a cinema scene came in. ПК: И в данном случае пейзаж... появился пейзаж из кино. LRH: Oh, I see. ЛРХ: О, я понял. PC: Hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. ЛРХ: Хорошо. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Now let’s move, let’s move that town under you again. ЛРХ: Хорошо. А теперь переместите... снова переместите этот город так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Got that under you? ЛРХ: Он оказался под вами? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Now let’s take this cinema scene and pin it to some of the – or move it a certain distance away from some of the furniture around that town. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь возьмите этот пейзаж из кино и прикрепите его к одной из... или отодвиньте его на определенное расстояние от каких-либо вещей, имеющихся в этом городе. PC: I've got a whole lot of chimney tops underneath me. ПК: Я вижу под собой целую кучу дымовых труб. LRH: Oh, all right. Now take that cinema scene and put it alongside of one of these chimney tops. ЛРХ: О, хорошо. Теперь возьмите этот пейзаж из кино и поместите его рядом с одной из этих дымовых труб. PC: I've plugged it down one, a little bit. ПК: Я запихал его в одну из этих труб, неглубоко. LRH: Okay. ЛРХ: Хорошо. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Okay. Now move that town away from you several miles. ЛРХ: Ладно. Теперь переместите этот город на расстояние нескольких километров от себя. PC: It’s gone, anyway. Mm-hm. ПК: Как бы там ни было, его больше нет. Угу. LRH: All right. Now take the facsimile of what you’ve just seen. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Теперь возьмите факсимиле того, что вы только что видели. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: And what – are you near anything now? ЛРХ: И что... вы сейчас находитесь рядом с чем-нибудь? PC: No, I’ve just got a facsimile there. ПК:Нет,уменяздесьпростоесть факсимиле. LRH: You’ve got a facsimile there? ЛРХ: У вас здесь есть факсимиле? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Well, move this monument you’ve been calling Nelson’s monument near you. ЛРХ: Ну, переместите этот памятник, который вы называли памятником Нельсону, так, чтобы он оказался рядом с вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now put this on the horse’s nose. ЛРХ: Теперь поместите это на нос лошади. PC: In the form of a piece of rig? Mm-hm. ПК: Как часть упряжи? Угу. LRH: Mm-hm. Got that facsimile on his nose? ЛРХ: Ага. Поместили это факсимиле ей на нос? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move Saint Paul’s Cathedral under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите собор Святого Павла так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Got it? ЛРХ: Нашли его? PC: Yep. ПК: Ага. LRH: Now take the facsimile of having put that on the horse’s nose. You got that picture? ЛРХ: Теперь возьмите факсимиле того, как вы помещали это на нос лошади. Вы получили эту картинку? PC: I've got the picture with the facsimile — I've got the horse with the facsimile wrapped around his nose, yes. ПК: Я получил картинку, на которой факсимиле... я нашел лошадь, у которой факсимиле обмотано вокруг носа, да. LRH: The facsimile of it, you know. ЛРХ: Факсимиле этого, понимаете. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: This is a picture of it. All right. Now put that on the cross at Saint Paul’s. ЛРХ: Это картинка этого. Хорошо. Теперь поместите это на крест в соборе Святого Павла. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Got that? ЛРХ: Сделали это? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now, move 163 Holland Park under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите дом 163 по Холланд-парк так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Got that? ЛРХ: Сделали это? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Now move the chair under you. ЛРХ: Теперь переместите стул так, чтобы он оказался под вами. PC: Move the chair under me? The chair? ПК: Переместить стул так, чтобы он оказался подо мной? Этот стул? LRH: Yeah, the chair on the platform under you. ЛРХ: Да, стул на сцене под вами. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Got that? ЛРХ: Сделали это? PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: All right. Sit down there. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Сядьте на него. PC: Yeah, I'm fine there. ПК: Да, у меня с этим все в порядке. LRH: Hm? ЛРХ: А? PC: Yes. ПК: Да. LRH: Okay. Now do you see any differentiation on facsimiles and anything else? ЛРХ: Хорошо. Вы увидели какую-нибудь разницу между факсимиле и чем-то еще? PC:CanIdifferentiatebetweenthe facsimiles and... ПК: Могу ли я видеть разницу между факсимиле и... LRH: Yeah, the facsimile you're making of something, and the picture you get of something when you move it under you. You get the difference between these two things? ЛРХ: Да, между факсимиле, которое вы создаете, и картинкой, которую вы получаете, когда перемещаете что-то так, чтобы оно оказалось под вами. Вы видите разницу между этими двумя вещами? PC: Yes. Mm-hm. ПК: Да. Угу. LRH: There’s a difference between these two... ЛРХ: Есть разница между этими двумя... PC: There definitely is! ПК: Несомненно, есть! LRH: Yeah. ЛРХ: Да. PC: Mm-hm. ПК: Угу. LRH: Okay. Okay, that’s all. ЛРХ: Хорошо. Хорошо, это все. PC: Good. ПК: Хорошо. LRH: Well, just tell me, did you – do you have any better sense of being out this time during this drill? ЛРХ: Просто скажите мне, у вас... в этот раз на протяжении этой процедуры вы яснее ощущали, что находитесь снаружи? PC: Yes, definitely. I felt the sense of movement. ПК: Да, несомненно. Я чувствовал, как я двигаюсь. LRH: Mm-hm. ЛРХ: Угу. PC: Moving out away from the chair. ПК: Перемещаюсь прочь от этого стула. LRH: Mm-hm. Okay, okay. Let’s get another run at this. ЛРХ: Угу. Хорошо, хорошо. Давайте проведем это еще раз.